stdaga , they said GRRM already explained the discrepancy about why Ned was still in the Vale at 18
Yes, GRRM does address this in an SSM, which I posted above. It does seem to address most of the questions I raise, but part of me still doubts. For the most part, I keep in mind that an SSM isn't canon, it's discussion or correspondence and might not be an exact quote. But I can certainly understand why people would use it to discount my theory. It's all good. Even if I am wrong, all of these questions helps us chip away at the puzzle that GRRM has given us!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
stdaga, i think the Rickard cuckold backstory is better than the Ninepenny dispute . Rhaegar finds out he has a half sister and decides to try to recreate the dragon hatching gene with Lyanna . and it fits better with Ned being a hostage in Vale as Rickard has a reason to rebel
stdaga , i think the Rickard cuckold backstory is better than the Ninepenny dispute . Rhaegar finds out he has a half sister and decides to try to recreate the dragon hatching gene with Lyanna . and it fits better with Ned being a hostage in Vale as Rickard has a reason to rebel
Yes, this idea would fit pretty well. And we do get hints of a similar story when we hear about Aerys interest and behavior toward Joanna Lannister. Joanna might not be the only wife of a great lord that Aerys lusted after!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
stdaga , I JUST READ he had as many mistresses as Aegon 4th so he could have many dragonseeds out there
Yes, in his early years, Aerys was said to be quite a womanizer, but if he had bastards from these unions, where are they? Do they exist and were kept hidden, are the people in our story who we are familiar with, but missing part of their backstory, or does he not have bastards at all? I have come across speculation that says that Aerys was using his bastard children as sacrifices to try to hatch a dragon egg. He and Rhaella are noted to have had multiple pregnancies in their marriage, though we are given the idea that only Rhaegar, Viserys and Daenerys lived past infanthood.
It is interesting, however, that Aerys is compared to Aegon IV in this case, because we know that Aegon IV's bastards were legitimized, and one supposed bastard son, Daemon, waged a rebellion for the throne against Aegon's supposed trueborn son, Daeron, and spawned multiple Blackfyre rebellions against the Targaryen crown.
History does repeat itself in this story, so how can that all apply to our current storyline?
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
stdaga , those bastards would have grown up not knowing their background unless they had the Valyrian look
They also might not have had a Valyrian look, since we do get the idea that not all Targaryen children look Valyrian. Rhaenys was said to look like Elia and not Rhaegar. Baelor Breakspear looked like his Dornish mother, and his eldest son Valarr was said to look like Baelor, so, Dornish more than Valyrian. We are not told was Baelor's second son Materys looked like. I finally read the Dunk and Egg stories, so this is all fresh in my mind.
If one of Aerys' bastards did look like the blood of Valyria, I wonder about Aurane Waters. His age is vague and he has some Valyrian features. Cersei crushes on him as if he was Rhaegar reborn, but Aurane also claims to be a bastard of House Driftmark, which could explain his looks.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Post by DarkSister1001 on Mar 27, 2019 15:10:16 GMT
Great question stdaga! I didn't read through all the replies so I apologize if these have been asked and answered.
I can't remember, do we have a quote that Aerys referred to RB & Ned as "wards" specifically? Or was that perhaps just shorthand?
I always took it as Ned & Robert had such a good time in the Vale, they were loved and had fond memories of the place so they visited frequently. Robert was always one to put fun in front of duty so him playing around in the Vale instead of ruling Storm's End makes sense to me. Ned was closer to Robert than his trueborn brothers and being a second son, he didn't have many real duties in WF, nothing keeping him there.
I like the idea you put forward about Ned's brother prayer being about Theon and Robb/Jon.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
DarkSister1001,His eyes found hers, and she could see how hard it took him, as she had known it would. In his youth, Ned had fostered at the Eyrie, and the childless Lord Arryn had become a second father to him and his fellow ward, Robert Baratheon. When the Mad King Aerys II Targaryen had demanded their heads, the Lord of the Eyrie had raised his moon-and-falcon banners in revolt rather than give up those he had pledged to protect.
DarkSister1001,Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height. Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands. Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward, the king had gained at least eight stone. A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.
Post by DarkSister1001 on Mar 27, 2019 15:41:26 GMT
canitryto - What I am looking for is Aerys specifically calling Ned & Robert Jon's "wards". If that exists, IMO, it takes this from an idea to a possibility.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
Post by DarkSister1001 on Mar 27, 2019 19:32:29 GMT
I searched for "ward" on A Search of Ice & Fire and found a few interesting passages:
"A ward can easily become a hostage, if need be."
ACoK, Cat V
What followed Prince Rhaegar's infamous abduction of Lyanna Stark was the ruin of House Targaryen. The full depth of King Aerys's madness was subsequently revealed in his depraved actions against Lord Stark, his heir, and their supporters after they demanded redress for Rhaegar's wrongs. Instead of granting them fair hearing, King Aerys had them brutally slain, then followed these murders by demanding that Lord Jon Arryn execute his former wards, Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark. Many now agree that the true start of Robert's Rebellion began with Lord Arryn's refusal and his courageous calling of his banners in the defense of justice.
TWoIaF - The Fall of the Dragons: Robert's Rebellion
In more recent years, the importance of the role played by Lord Jon Arryn in Robert's Rebellion cannot be gainsaid. Indeed, it was Lord Jon's refusal to deliver the heads of his wards, Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon, that began the revolt. Had he done as he was commanded, the Mad King might yet sit the Iron Throne.