She is, literally, always mentioned as a love interest of Eddard Stark
Love interest, yes. Pregnant or giving birth, no. Speculation, based on whatever is widely known about Harrenhal, and the fact that Ned paid a visit after the war, but no-one apart from Barristan seems to have knowledge of Ashara actually having a child (strangely enough, that includes Ned Dayne).
That Jon was "born with the dead", his twin sister was stillborn.
Hmm, the point I was trying to make is that IF Barristan's info is accurate (which it quite possibly isn't) then there was probably no Jon (unless Martin is being deliberately misleading with Barry's thoughts, which he might be as there are strange non sequiturs in there), just the stillbirth. Jon+dead girl sounds more like the cover-up scenario (two kids but they only publicise the dead one)
There would be no reason to take Jon away from there, except Starks are not like other men...
... they steal babies and sell them to the others? Seriously, I'd like to think that if Ashara wanted to keep the kid then Ned wouldn't have taken it. So IMO either there was just one stillborn kid, or there was also Jon, but Ashara didn't want to keep him (or couldn't, e.g. because broke down after Arthur's and other babe's death)
She is, literally, always mentioned as a love interest of Eddard Stark
Love interest, yes. Pregnant or giving birth, no. Speculation, based on whatever is widely known about Harrenhal, and the fact that Ned paid a visit after the war, but no-one apart from Barristan seems to have knowledge of Ashara actually having a child (strangely enough, that includes Ned Dayne).
That Jon was "born with the dead", his twin sister was stillborn.
Hmm, the point I was trying to make is that IF Barristan's info is accurate (which it quite possibly isn't) then there was probably no Jon (unless Martin is being deliberately misleading with Barry's thoughts, which he might be as there are strange non sequiturs in there), just the stillbirth. Jon+dead girl sounds more like the cover-up scenario (two kids but they only publicise the dead one)
There would be no reason to take Jon away from there, except Starks are not like other men...
... they steal babies and sell them to the others? Seriously, I'd like to think that if Ashara wanted to keep the kid then Ned wouldn't have taken it. So IMO either there was just one stillborn kid, or there was also Jon, but Ashara didn't want to keep him (or couldn't, e.g. because broke down after Arthur's and other babe's death)
All plausible, but I'm far more inclined to believe Edric, Catelyn, and Cersei's suggestions that Ned and Ashara had a thing, and Catelyn and Hullen's assertion that "thing" led to the birth of one Jon Snow.
Again, I'm not at all sold on this particular scenario. I only wanted to include it so we could have these kinds of discussions. Edric Dayne's story is quite peculiar, considering he is named after Eddard. Clearly, Lord Dayne would not have named his son after Eddard if Barristan's account is accurate, and Ned had indeed "dishonored" Ashara at Harrenhal and fathered a stillborn daughter on her - leading to her suicide. Barry is not the reliable narrator in any scenario. The only thing of value I can truly take from him is that Ashara may have given birth, and not without complications. Where have we heard that before?
What I take from all the citations, as a whole, is that if nothing else, is that Jon "Snow" was born at Starfall, and Jon's wetnurse was named Wylla. Ned told Robert a lie: that Wylla is Jon's mother. That lie, itself, was not without honor. It protected the honor of Ashara (or Arthur), at the expense of his own and Wylla's (who, being a longtime servant to House Dayne, likely wouldn't mind the slight).
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
@ Voice i know you weren't slated to do an essay,but thank you pulling this together in such short notice. A good selection of quotes you definitely made a case that Ned and Ashara feelings wise most likely had a thing. You definitely brought out quotes where atleast a couple of people think Ashara is Jon's mother.
What i do find interesting is Edric's statemnt I find it most telling that the talk went as far as to connect Ned and Ashara romantically but no talk of him in connection to any child of hers.
Also,were you able to find anything at all linking Jon to Ashara via her directly someway symbolically or indirectly via Ned to her?
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
@ Voice i know you weren't slated to do an essay,but thank you pulling this together in such short notice. A good selection of quotes you definitely made a case that Ned and Ashara feelings wise most likely had a thing. You definitely brought out quotes where atleast a couple of people think Ashara is Jon's mother.
What i do find interesting is Edric's statemnt I find it most telling that the talk went as far as to connect Ned and Ashara romantically but no talk of him in connection to any child of hers.
Also,were you able to find anything at all linking Jon to Ashara via her directly someway symbolically or indirectly via Ned to her?
Cheers wolfmaid
As to the last, both Cersei's account, and Catelyn's, connect Jon to this spring fling...
Cersei confronted Ned, and accused him directly of stealing Jon from Ashara, resulting in her suicide. The Ned did not deny it...
Catelyn suggested Ashara was Jon's mother, confronted Ned about Ashara (she wanted Jon sent away), and for the first and only time in their marriage, Ned frightened her with his anger. But, the Ned did not deny it...
These two accounts fit quite well with the tale told by Edric Dayne. Barry, though unreliable, then attributed Ashara's pregnancy to the Stark who "dishonored" her at Harrenhal. We know from Edric, and his aunt Allyria, that Eddard is the Stark Ashara fell in love with at the tourney. Combine this with Cersei and Catelyn, and you have yourself a son of ice and fire, someone to bring the Dawn, a sword in the darkness who brings the light.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 2, 2015 18:23:42 GMT
I'm partial to this theory, but even I admit it's logistics don't make as much sense. Ned would have to have conceived Jon at Harrenhal, given that we don't know how or whether they met up again while she was en route to Starfall (unlikely, but not impossible), Jon would have to be older than Robb, in which case the whole issue of Catelyn believing Jon to be possibly born after their marriage becomes far less likely.
It forces Maester Luwin to be a liar (per Voice's post above) to not notice the difference, and for Catelyn to fail to notice that Robb is indeed younger.
I'll re-phrase my questions: 1. Where did Barry get his info from? Seems to me it wasn't just gossip because no-one else ever mentions Ashara actually being pregnant or giving birth, apart from whispers about her and Ned. Possibly from KG-brother Arthur, but when was the last time they could communicate? 2. If we assume the info is correct, what does that mean for Jon? It seems that Barry doesn't think there was a twin brother (though there's a small romm for error). So either his info is accurate and then ?+A=stillborn daughter, OR 3. If it's not correct, does it still tell us anything useful? If there was a living child, or two, then they wanted to hide them for some reason. Why? Not obvious to me. Dorne seems to go easier on bastards than other places, but I guess it still could have been problematic for Ashara to have a bastard kid running around... dunno...
I agree, it's interesting that Barristan is the only one to mention a stillborn child. And a girl, no less. If the child was Jon, and Ned took him, why not only pretend the child died, but change its gender? That seems unnecessary, especially since some people (midwives, possibly handmaidens/servants and her family) would surely know the child was born a boy.
I will mention something here that I mentioned in another thread (I hadn't found this one yet, where it belongs!), and that is the timeline problem we have here. Barristan claims she was dishonored at Harrenhal (how did he know this? He was guarding Aerys- how did he know what was happening in Ned Stark's tent???), but gave birth after the Sack. We have been over this a million times in Heresy- a baby conceived at HH would be born well before the Sack of KL, not weeks or months later. So if her baby was Jon, then either he is significantly older than we think (and older than Robb), or Ned is not the father. Or, Ned spent 9 months down in Dorne after the war, but that somehow seems unlikely. (Or does it? Cersei also suggests Jon could be the son of some Dornishwoman Ned hooked up with - and as a mother, she would know that if he only spent a few weeks in Dorne, he wouldn't be able to bring back a bastard in that amount of time. Hmmm.)
Love interest, yes. Pregnant or giving birth, no. Speculation, based on whatever is widely known about Harrenhal, and the fact that Ned paid a visit after the war, but no-one apart from Barristan seems to have knowledge of Ashara actually having a child (strangely enough, that includes Ned Dayne).
Yes, and not only did Ned Dayne not mention Ashara having a child, but he seems quite certain that Jon is Ned and Wylla's baby. Why would he think that? If Ned and Ashara were SO in love that she killed herself when he left, how could he also father a bastard on another woman while he was down there? (Not to mention that he would, again, have to spend 9 months in Dorne before he could take a baby home). I think we can say with certainty that Wylla is not the mother. Even if Ned was that kind of a guy, the Daynes would hardly have kept Wylla on after this, let alone name their heir after Ned.
It does seem as though the "Jon is Ned's bastard and Wylla is the mother" story was what Ned told everyone after the fact. It's what Robert believes, and also Edric Dayne (which means it's also the official story told in Starfall). Weird, that the Daynes would tell this tale that makes Ned seem like an asshole, when it's pretty clear they hold him in high esteem.
What I take from all the citations, as a whole, is that if nothing else, is that Jon "Snow" was born at Starfall, and Jon's wetnurse was named Wylla. Ned told Robert a lie: that Wylla is Jon's mother. That lie, itself, was not without honor. It protected the honor of Ashara (or Arthur), at the expense of his own and Wylla's (who, being a longtime servant to House Dayne, likely wouldn't mind the slight).
This, for me, is the weakest part of the N+A=J theory. The secrecy surrounding Jon's birth is pretty extreme, and Ned won't even tolerate his wife asking him about it ("it was the only time he had ever scared her", according to Cat). Protecting Ashara's honor is sweet, but not only is she dead, but the affair wouldn't have been considered a big deal in Dorne anyway. (Her family named Edric after Ned - so clearly they didn't mind him hooking up with Ashara, or getting her pregnant, if he did).
What i do find interesting is Edric's statemnt I find it most telling that the talk went as far as to connect Ned and Ashara romantically but no talk of him in connection to any child of hers.
Exactly. This is weird. Why admit to the affair, but go to great lengths to hide the fact that it resulted in a child? Barristan's belief that a girl was stillborn suggests that at least some people knew/believed she gave birth- so why not admit it was Ned's and be done with it?
Here is my crackpot alternative version of N+A: They did have an affair, and she did have a child. But this child was not Jon, but (f)Aegon, and he was indeed stolen from Ashara. (Why? Because he looked Valyrian, and Varys needed a Valyrian-looking baby.) Alternatively, the baby was Dany. The age would work better, if she was conceived shortly after the Sack when Ned went to Dorne, and the gender would fit as well. Ned would have been back at WF by then, and powerless to intervene or comfort Ashara after the baby was stolen. Maybe he never even knew about the baby. Of course this theory only works if the Daynes don't just look Valyrian, but have dragon blood, too.
Lastly- have we considered the possibility that Ashara didn't voluntarily jump from the tower? If someone stole her baby, they might have wanted to silence the mother. She could have been pushed from the tower, or abducted. Just a thought.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 28, 2015 2:44:13 GMT
While the romantic in me loves the possibility of this relationship, the more practical-minded of myself shakes my head at the timeline issues that make it impossible. One of the only ways I could see it working is if Ashara took a detour on her way back to Starfall and stopped by Ned's encampment after his marriage but before the Trident (there's a good enough amount of time between the two). It's not impossible, if we accept that she and Ned had a love for one another that she might want to say "goodbye" or some other such thing--confronting him after his marriage to Catelyn seems likely if you accept that, with one thing leading to another before she slips off to Starfall.
This however contradicts why Ashara supposedly left in the first place--that she'd gotten pregnant and it was beginning to be noticed by others. Another problem is that she's journeying through a war zone--something that Arya did in ACOK, so we know just how hard that would actually be, granted RR doesn't sound like they went out of their way to ruin the countryside as they went along--and unless she's riding like Catelyn in ACOK did with a bunch of armed guards (which is possible, but then everyone would know where to catch a very very valuable hostage now wouldn't they?), I have trouble believing she could make it across the Crownlands and Riverlands to Eddard's war tent for such a clandestine meeting after his marriage, A] without being noticed or it being more widely known & B] in a work by GRRM. In a more traditional fantasy story? Yes, most definitely. But in GRRM's world? I seriously doubt it. It also would be rather reckless and foolhardy of Ashara to do such a thing.
It's speculation and bordering dangerously on the edge of fan fiction, but it's about the only way to make it work with the Timeline with everything else unraveling.
I'll re-phrase my questions: 1. Where did Barry get his info from? Seems to me it wasn't just gossip because no-one else ever mentions Ashara actually being pregnant or giving birth, apart from whispers about her and Ned. Possibly from KG-brother Arthur, but when was the last time they could communicate? 2. If we assume the info is correct, what does that mean for Jon? It seems that Barry doesn't think there was a twin brother (though there's a small romm for error). So either his info is accurate and then ?+A=stillborn daughter, OR 3. If it's not correct, does it still tell us anything useful? If there was a living child, or two, then they wanted to hide them for some reason. Why? Not obvious to me. Dorne seems to go easier on bastards than other places, but I guess it still could have been problematic for Ashara to have a bastard kid running around... dunno...
I agree, it's interesting that Barristan is the only one to mention a stillborn child. And a girl, no less. If the child was Jon, and Ned took him, why not only pretend the child died, but change its gender? That seems unnecessary, especially since some people (midwives, possibly handmaidens/servants and her family) would surely know the child was born a boy.
I will mention something here that I mentioned in another thread (I hadn't found this one yet, where it belongs!), and that is the timeline problem we have here. Barristan claims she was dishonored at Harrenhal (how did he know this? He was guarding Aerys- how did he know what was happening in Ned Stark's tent???), but gave birth after the Sack. We have been over this a million times in Heresy- a baby conceived at HH would be born well before the Sack of KL, not weeks or months later. So if her baby was Jon, then either he is significantly older than we think (and older than Robb), or Ned is not the father. Or, Ned spent 9 months down in Dorne after the war, but that somehow seems unlikely. (Or does it? Cersei also suggests Jon could be the son of some Dornishwoman Ned hooked up with - and as a mother, she would know that if he only spent a few weeks in Dorne, he wouldn't be able to bring back a bastard in that amount of time. Hmmm.)
What i do find interesting is Edric's statemnt I find it most telling that the talk went as far as to connect Ned and Ashara romantically but no talk of him in connection to any child of hers.
Exactly. This is weird. Why admit to the affair, but go to great lengths to hide the fact that it resulted in a child? Barristan's belief that a girl was stillborn suggests that at least some people knew/believed she gave birth- so why not admit it was Ned's and be done with it?
Here is my crackpot alternative version of N+A: They did have an affair, and she did have a child. But this child was not Jon, but (f)Aegon, and he was indeed stolen from Ashara. (Why? Because he looked Valyrian, and Varys needed a Valyrian-looking baby.) Alternatively, the baby was Dany. The age would work better, if she was conceived shortly after the Sack when Ned went to Dorne, and the gender would fit as well. Ned would have been back at WF by then, and powerless to intervene or comfort Ashara after the baby was stolen. Maybe he never even knew about the baby. Of course this theory only works if the Daynes don't just look Valyrian, but have dragon blood, too.
Lastly- have we considered the possibility that Ashara didn't voluntarily jump from the tower? If someone stole her baby, they might have wanted to silence the mother. She could have been pushed from the tower, or abducted. Just a thought.
Now this would be a twist.I have to marinate on this because your words inspired a thought.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Is anyone here ever going to write a Brandon + Ashara = Jon Snow?
Just saw this. There were several other possibilities for Jon's parentage that were noted when this project was originally discussed that lacked for a volunteer to write them. This is the main reason that a lot of the options weren't included. Feel free to write something up if you'd like, or even just open an informal thread. You know us well enough by now to know that we'll discuss pretty much anything out before us.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Is anyone here ever going to write a Brandon + Ashara = Jon Snow?
Just saw this. There were several other possibilities for Jon's parentage that were noted when this project was originally discussed that lacked for a volunteer to write them. This is the main reason that a lot of the options weren't included. Feel free to write something up if you'd like, or even just open an informal thread. You know us well enough by now to know that we'll discuss pretty much anything out before us.
I have other mysteries that I am working on but I'd tackle it if/when I have the time.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
voice , That Ned would confuse Lyanna and Ashara is actually not surprising, he loved them both and both died tragically. Also Ashara may be the explanation for Arthur and company at the TOJ. Surely Arthur would know of Neds affair in connection with his sister ergo Arthur was explicitly waiting for Ned.
voice , That Ned would confuse Lyanna and Ashara is actually not surprising, he loved them both and both died tragically. Also Ashara may be the explanation for Arthur and company at the TOJ. Surely Arthur would know of Neds affair in connection with his sister ergo Arthur was explicitly waiting for Ned.
It would certainly explain the attitude of Arthur at the toj.
Lyanna's presence would make the behavior of all three kingsguard very odd imo.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband's soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.
That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.
She didn't ask about Jon she asked about Ashara. The first thing Eddard goes to is Jon. Ergo Jon is Ashara's.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I find all of the X+Y theories pretty fascinating. We all see what we want to see, sometimes even using the same text with different interpretations. Ashara does seem to be an important character in this story, as well as Arthur. Are either of them parents of Jon, Dany, Young Griff/Aegon/fAegon? Who knows but it is interesting to discuss the possibilities.
I actually like this A+N=some baby some where, and would not mind if it was true, but I don't know.
That Ned would confuse Lyanna and Ashara is actually not surprising, he loved them both and both died tragically.
Do we really know that Ned loved Ashara? Ned thinks "Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart", Eddard I-aGoT, so while I agree that he loved Lyanna, there is nothing in the text that proves he loves Ashara. He won't talk about her, but that isn't confirmation of anything, as he won't talk about "Wylla" either, just starts to act constipated when her name is mentioned. Other people's opinion of Ned/Ashara is not confirmation either.
I think Ashara references show up a lot in aDwD. That is where we get the Barriston Selmy information, but it can't be confirmed at all, as it is opinion and not fact.
I think Barristan's account is useful in that it aligns far better with the other POVs who suggest Ashara threw herself to her death because of a broken heart, rather than a dead brother. Like Cersei and Catelyn, Barristan believes Ashara was impregnated by a Stark, and killed herself when her child was stolen from her (whether by nature, or Ned).
Barristan claims she was dishonored at Harrenhal (how did he know this? He was guarding Aerys- how did he know what was happening in Ned Stark's tent???), but gave birth after the Sack. We have been over this a million times in Heresy- a baby conceived at HH would be born well before the Sack of KL, not weeks or months later. So if her baby was Jon, then either he is significantly older than we think (and older than Robb), or Ned is not the father.
Love interest, yes. Pregnant or giving birth, no. Speculation, based on whatever is widely known about Harrenhal, and the fact that Ned paid a visit after the war, but no-one apart from Barristan seems to have knowledge of Ashara actually having a child (strangely enough, that includes Ned Dayne).
First of all, how does Barriston know that Ashara was dishonored if he spent his time guarding Aerys. That leads me to believe that Aerys did something to Ashara, not Ned or Brandon.
How does he know this lead to a pregnancy; if she was ever pregnant? No proof, unless he witnessed her "dishonor", what ever that actually means, and confirmed her pregnancy with is own eyes. He becomes a unreliable narrator on this subject, like most of our narrator's are at times.
He also says she turned to Stark, but not which one. There were four Stark's at Harrenhal - Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, and Benjen. She could have looked to anyone of them for help if she had been assaulted. Just because we know that Brandon talked to Ashara and Ned danced with her, does not actually mean either of them banged her or fell deeply in love with her. It means Howland saw Brandon talk to her and Ned dance with her. That is all we know, the rest is conjecture! Which I am a fan of at times and sometimes lead with in my theories, but it is not proof.
And his information on her still birth and suicide had to come from people talking about it, but if he never witnessed anything, does it count as actual fact. Ashara could very well be alive, and never had a baby or even been pregnant.
What if Lyanna, in Ned's dream, was actually Ashara? And Eddard, in his fevered state, swapped the two?
Anything is possible when it comes to Ned's ToJ fever dream (because while being a visual and narrative feast, it is not probably very factual). Ned certainly thinks of Lyanna in her bed of blood, not just during a fever dream, but in many times during aGoT. He never thinks of Ashara at all, as far as we know from the text.
That Jon was "born with the dead", his twin sister was stillborn. This would explain why Ashara was going through such a massive funk. She had postpartum depression, exacerbated by the daughter she lost. Maybe when Eddard lovingly promised that he'd take care of the boy, she threw herself from the Palestone Sword Tower.
The Dayne family knew Ashara had gone off the deep end, and that Ned was only taking care of Dawn...I mean "Jon" until he could come of age and take up the mantle of the next Sword of the Morning.
This twin idea comes up a lot, and it is certainly possible. But really, do we have that many twins in ASOIAF? Cersei/Jaime, the rumored bastard daughters that Robert Baratheon got on some servent at Casterly Rock, the Fowler twins from Dorne, Hobber and Slobber the Redwyne twins, but I can't think of any others of the top of my head. I am sure there are more I am missing, but are they really very common?
However, I actually like this idea, because it does fit the narrative of what we have been told (even though it comes from unreliable narrative as far as I can tell). A still-born girl could be born with a live brother or sister. So, Ashara, if she was prego, and it was Neddards, could have given birth to a live and dead baby. I think it has an interesting dark twist to it, and GRRM seems to like those things.
There is something so romantic about the idea of The Sword of the Morning. It is great and why would we not want that for Jon. He is awesome, there he deserves an awesome title and an awesome sword (I do like Longclaw for him, or a reforging of Ice). I could get on board with this outcome. But he is a Stark, not flashy, he doesn't seem to care about titles, so would it really matter to Jon? Or just the reader? It is cool as can be, as well as the Dayne "Sword of the Evening" title, and I like either for Jon. If he is a Dayne. Which he might be. Unless he isn't!
Again, I'm not at all sold on this particular scenario. I only wanted to include it so we could have these kinds of discussions. Edric Dayne's story is quite peculiar, considering he is named after Eddard. Clearly, Lord Dayne would not have named his son after Eddard if Barristan's account is accurate, and Ned had indeed "dishonored" Ashara at Harrenhal and fathered a stillborn daughter on her - leading to her suicide.
I want to address this Eddard/Edric/Ned name thing. Maybe I am being obtuse, but I have never seen the connection. Eddard and Edric are two different names. The only other Eddard I can think of in the story is Eddard Karstark, who was definitely named after Eddard Stark. I am fairly certain that Edric Storm is not named after Eddard Stark, even if Robert wanted to "honor" his best friend by naming a bastard after him, he would have used the name Eddard. Why do we think Edric Dayne is named after Eddard Stark?
Is it just the Ned nickname thing? Because Ned is a pretty common nickname for many names that start with the prefix Ed. According to the Westeros wiki of names,we have two Eddards, three Edric(k)s, we have a couple Neds. The first Ned is a ferryman from the Mystery Knight, but we cannot assume that Eddard Stark is called Ned after this ferryman. Another Ned is Noseless Ned Woods, but I can't imagine that he is Ned in honor of Eddard Stark, but he is at least from the north, so it is possible, but not likely.
So the name argument about how House Dayne honored Eddard "Ned" Stark but naming their heir Edric "Ned" Dayne is not convincing for me. Other peeps have every right to disagree with me on that. I doubt my opinion will change on this matter, and I don't expect their idea's to change, either.
It does seem as though the "Jon is Ned's bastard and Wylla is the mother" story was what Ned told everyone after the fact. It's what Robert believes, and also Edric Dayne (which means it's also the official story told in Starfall).
It does seem almost practiced. Like it was agreed upon as in "hey, let's make this our official story" before any one talks to Mom and Dad, or the cops, or the supervisor kind of story. Not that I ever needed to part of a planned, official story, but I hear it happens!
Lastly- have we considered the possibility that Ashara didn't voluntarily jump from the tower? If someone stole her baby, they might have wanted to silence the mother. She could have been pushed from the tower, or abducted. Just a thought.
I have actually never thought about this, but I like it. I mean I don't like that Ashara might have been murdered like Lysa Arryn (although I didn't mind her going out the moon door at all) but it makes sense that a woman would fight hard to keep someone from stealing her child, and it has a huge sorrowful aspect hanging over it. Purple is Ashara's color and is associated with mystery, magic, and luxury (Quaithe?). There is certainly a mystery aura around Ashara Dayne!
I can't help but think that Ashara is important to the story, but I have no idea what it really all means. Her name is mentioned often enough that we don't really forget her, and I think she is alluded to often in text, even if she is not named outright.
In Davos I and II in aDwD, I feel like there is a lot of hints that could be about Ashara, without really mentioning her name.
In Davos I we get the story about Ned's passing through Sisterton to call his banners at the beginning of the War of the Usurper. Ned is traveling with a mystery woman referred to as the fishermans daughter, who could actually be anyone or no one. It could be Ashara, Wylla, Lyanna, or an actual fishermans daughter who got Ned safely to Sisterton. She is rumored to have been prego and that according to Lord Borrell "They say he sent her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn" Davos I-aDwD. Now this does not seem very Ned like, but it is possible that we don't know Ned like we think we do. It just seems out of character. However, it hints at Neddard with a prego lady, which could be important to this whole complicated story.
In Davos II, while in White Harbor, we get some information drops that I think are interesting and bring Ashara to mind in my mind. There several ships that Davos mentions, but two catch my attention for some reason.
The first ship is called the Merry Midwife and Davos arrived on her from Sisterton. This ship is actually described by Davos as drab and pock-marked, with grey and brown sails. Her figurehead is interesting, and is of a laughing woman, holding an infant by one foot. This makes me think of several things, namely Ashara Dayne, who was described as having laughing purple eyes, and she is holding an infant by one foot, which hints to the story of Achilles and his mother Thetis, who dipped her son in the river Styx to protect him from harm.
The second ship is the Sloe Eyed Maid, which is actually a ship that Dany thought to book passage on for she and her dragons to reach Westeros. It turns out the Sloe Eyed Maid crashed on the shores of Sisterton, and was destroyed completely, probably when it was lured into shore by the ship wreckers at Sisterton (which is hinted at in Davos II, when Lord Borrell talks of the spices he got off a sloe eyed maid, and which he offeres to Davos to flavor up is Sister's Stew). Sloe eyed is defined as having attractive dark and almond shaped eyes. Sloe berries are purple in color (although the juice is red). Ashara Dayne is refered to as the maid with the laughting purple eyes, and Barriston Selmy thinks Dany could be Ashara's daugher, because of her eyes. So the Sloe Eyed Maid also makes me think of both Dany and Ashara Dayne.
I think GRRM is certainly trying to put Ashara in our minds in aDwD. That is the book we get Ser Barriston's remembering Ashara, as well as these drops in Davos's chapters. I wonder if the author is alluding to the possibility that Ashara Dayne was in White Harbor in the past, possible disguised as a fishermans daughter along with Ned Stark. Could this be allusion to Wylla, a midwife/wet nurse/caregiver?
I think there is much information in every chapter, it is just a matter of how we look at it. Is it important, or is it a red herring to distract us? I sometimes wonder if the R+L=J is true, that GRRM said, "shit, I can't believe so many people figured it out, so what kind of red herrings can I toss into Feast and Dance to stir the pot!" Sometimes I think he planted the R+L=J so well, that almost everyone fell for it (including me for a long while), and now we are getting more of the "truth". It could all mean nothing and GRRM is laughing his ass off at all the people (like me) who are sitting around in tin foil hats!!!
Sorry about the length of this post. I get excited working through these theory ideas!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.