Euron's horn is clearly horrible. But it's also inferior to a real dragon bond--like Dany's with Drogon.
I think Euron's horn binds men. Both Aeron and Victarion both felt it.
Someone, somewhere (just can't recall!) also said it may have been used to bind the slaves in Valyria.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
You know what, you may not have made that case. LOL Mayhaps that was just floating around in my head since.
at this point I'm so far behind, who knows what I've been arguing?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I think Euron's horn binds men. Both Aeron and Victarion both felt it.
Someone, somewhere (just can't recall!) also said it may have been used to bind the slaves in Valyria.
I'm liking this idea! But I'm thinking fear of the dragons might also have been enough to bind slaves.
Martin says that thing in an interview about how Targs are interlopers in Westeros, only holding onto power via their dragons. Seems like that might have been enough.
But we do have the forced skin changing of Varamyr and even Bran--is that what you're thinking re: the horns?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
But we do have the forced skin changing of Varamyr and even Bran--is that what you're thinking re: the horns?
had not thought that far.
I just came across the victarion/aeron dialogue when researching the ironborn and the kingsmoot and it made me think of the hellish power of that horn. And Victarion is no shrinking violet.
here are the quotes
A Feast for Crows - The Drowned Man aaaaaaaRRREEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. It was a terrible sound, a wail of pain and fury that seemed to burn the ears. Aeron Damphair covered his, and prayed for the Drowned God to raise a mighty wave and smash the horn to silence, yet still the shriek went on and on. It is the horn of hell, he wanted to scream, though no man would have heard him.
A Feast for Crows - The Reaver [Aeron] "It was not the god who spoke. Euron is known to keep wizards and foul sorcerers on that red ship of his. They sent some spell among us, so we could not hear the sea. The captains and the kings were drunk with all this talk of dragons." [Victarion] "Drunk, and fearful of that horn. You heard the sound it made. It makes no matter. Euron is our king."
It is but one item that 'sings'.
Other things can 'sing': when a troup crosses a bridge, the right thing to do is to break step to avoid vibrations triggering a resonance that could collapse the bridge (i am probably not explaining this too well, see here). Other events, such as the wind, can trigger the same results, see Tacoma bridge.
All of this gives credence, IMHO, to Martin using 'songs' (including rythms..) to cause calamities. The horn that wakes giants triggers earthquakes, Euron's horn binds men like a dog whistle (or an harmonica?) binds dogs. Which is essentially what Beautifulbacon posted last year.
The children's 'songs' could just about trigger anything we can imagine such as tectonic plates rubbing each other and causing water hammers. Just imagine all the weirwoods starting to humm!
So we have on the one hand, children who can - presumably - cause 'natural' events by singing the right 'thing' and on the other hand horns - the elemental ones - which can do the same.
So, who built these horns? how did man come by them?
Some songs can be destructive, others can be saviours, but they must be sung as a harmony. Harmonies are very powerful, try one with a couple of friends.
According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne's many children—lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River—to put aside their bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day.
What is this secret song? is that the one the children taught the Last Hero? Is there a horn that will bind zombies? or a song that will stop watery hammers? Is there a song, a rhythm in our story that gives us a hint? Nymeria's 1000 wolf pack?
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
All of this gives credence, IMHO, to Martin using 'songs' (including rythms..) to cause calamities. The horn that wakes giants triggers earthquakes, Euron's horn binds men like a dog whistle (or an harmonica?) binds dogs. Which is essentially what Beautifulbacon posted last year.
Could very well work.
And wolfmaid7 did a whole essay on the importance of singing and songs on Westeros a while back.
So, song as bringing catastrophe--especially human-created songs (as opposed to the song of the earth) bringing calamity--I can definitely buy that.
The children's 'songs' could just about trigger anything we can imagine such as tectonic plates rubbing each other and causing water hammers. Just imagine all the weirwoods starting to humm!
So we have on the one hand, children who can - presumably - cause 'natural' events by singing the right 'thing' and on the other hand horns - the elemental ones - which can do the same.
Possible--might even be the way the children got themselves into trouble overdoing this power.
Some songs can be destructive, others can be saviours, but they must be sung as a harmony. Harmonies are very powerful, try one with a couple of friends.
According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne's many children—lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River—to put aside their bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day.
What is this secret song? is that the one the children taught the Last Hero? Is there a horn that will bind zombies? or a song that will stop watery hammers? Is there a song, a rhythm in our story that gives us a hint? Nymeria's 1000 wolf pack?
I love that Mother Rhone quote. Makes me think that it isn't which song you sing, but that people sing together--unified. Working together.
The anti-war aspects of the novels would fit with that. The song is one of unity--and any positive unity will do.
Maybe.
ETA: It's one of the reasons why I think the "solution" to the fight will be to . . . not fight.
Not to use a sword like Dawn to fight, but to use it to not fight.
Not sure how that works at all yet. . . but I wonder.
And I need to get back to my sword threads to discuss this so I don't hijack Mojo 's argument.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
ETA: It's one of the reasons why I think the "solution" to the fight will be to . . . not fight.
I think you are onto something there. But what can stop men from fighting (and i guess zombies too):
music, which soothes the soul.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
I think you are onto something there. But what can stop men from fighting (and i guess zombies too):
music, which soothes the soul.
So. . . .Rhaegar's gonna come back and sing? I could deal with that.
In all seriousness: I've been searching for moments characters drop their swords instead of fighting. Usually leads to some kind of peace. But who knows?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
So. . . .Rhaegar's gonna come back and sing? I could deal with that.
'do you think he is dead, do you?' (GRRM's famous last words)
regardless whether his body was ever found, no one killed his harp! I wonder if Sansa ever learned to play harp.
I don't think you will get any peace from Martin, he likes his battles and human miseries too much.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
SlyWren, you can carry on, I don't think anyone minds here
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
regardless whether his body was ever found, no one killed his harp! I wonder if Sansa ever learned to play harp.
I don't think you will get any peace from Martin, he likes his battles and human miseries too much.
She did, it's one of the first things mentioned about her.
Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells.
Caught my eye in my laser reread when starting Arya I, and then I saw your question here. It seems I'm in a theme-related coincidence stream these days, and it's a bit unnerving...
All of this gives credence, IMHO, to Martin using 'songs' (including rythms..) to cause calamities. The horn that wakes giants triggers earthquakes, Euron's horn binds men like a dog whistle (or an harmonica?) binds dogs. Which is essentially what Beautifulbacon posted last year.
Could very well work.
And wolfmaid7 did a whole essay on the importance of singing and songs on Westeros a while back.
So, song as bringing catastrophe--especially human-created songs (as opposed to the song of the earth) bringing calamity--I can definitely buy that.
The children's 'songs' could just about trigger anything we can imagine such as tectonic plates rubbing each other and causing water hammers. Just imagine all the weirwoods starting to humm!
So we have on the one hand, children who can - presumably - cause 'natural' events by singing the right 'thing' and on the other hand horns - the elemental ones - which can do the same.
Possible--might even be the way the children got themselves into trouble overdoing this power.
Some songs can be destructive, others can be saviours, but they must be sung as a harmony. Harmonies are very powerful, try one with a couple of friends.
According to these tales, the return of the sun came only when a hero convinced Mother Rhoyne's many children—lesser gods such as the Crab King and the Old Man of the River—to put aside their bickering and join together to sing a secret song that brought back the day.
What is this secret song? is that the one the children taught the Last Hero? Is there a horn that will bind zombies? or a song that will stop watery hammers? Is there a song, a rhythm in our story that gives us a hint? Nymeria's 1000 wolf pack?
I love that Mother Rhone quote. Makes me think that it isn't which song you sing, but that people sing together--unified. Working together.
The anti-war aspects of the novels would fit with that. The song is one of unity--and any positive unity will do.
Maybe.
ETA: It's one of the reasons why I think the "solution" to the fight will be to . . . not fight.
Not to use a sword like Dawn to fight, but to use it to not fight.
Not sure how that works at all yet. . . but I wonder.
And I need to get back to my sword threads to discuss this so I don't hijack Mojo 's argument.
I like where you are going with this SlyWren,the "not fighting angle" to expand I think more in terms of the need to surrender to the songs.
As Dany did when her Dragons sang to her in her dreams.She surrendered to it and ultimately to the flames.
I still think there will be a conflict but the conflict of swords won't solve what's wrong.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"