Can't knock it really, the more you read about Alysanne the more you get the sense she was something akin to HBO's portrayal of Margy Tyrell. Knew how to work her image, knew how to manipulate and influence people etc. Could be wrong though, she could just be like Dany. "oh I'll stop some rapes" or "ooh maybe I'll free a bunch of slaves with no plan of what to do next". She may genuinely have been impressed by the watch and tried to be nice to them but ended up cocking it all up *shrugs*
Quick question, the VS version of Ice apparently came into the possession of House Stark about 400 years ago, yes ? Is that not roughly about the time House Targaryen tipped up on Dragonstone ?
Ok so, GQA motivations do seem suspect but what is her ultimate endgame ? Are you saying she was unaware of the existence of the WW and that a political move had unintended consequences or are you saying she did it with the intent of weakening the watch for the walkers?
I'm sure she heard tales of the Others, but wouldn't assume she weakened the watch for them. I think her endgame was simply to weaken a competitor.
I tend to agree - the only 'nukes' in Westeros are dragons and whatever lies far north. If you want total control, you need to hold all the nukes.
Can't knock it really, the more you read about Alysanne the more you get the sense she was something akin to HBO's portrayal of Margy Tyrell. Knew how to work her image, knew how to manipulate and influence people etc. Could be wrong though, she could just be like Dany. "oh I'll stop some rapes" or "ooh maybe I'll free a bunch of slaves with no plan of what to do next". She may genuinely have been impressed by the watch and tried to be nice to them but ended up cocking it all up *shrugs*
She may have been like Dany, but she isn't described as an aloof young girl. She is described as very intelligent and deliberate. She and Jaehaerys I (the Old King) enjoyed incredibly high approval ratings during their reign. She was an adept politician. She's older and more mature than Dany, and unlike her, is not lost and alone. She is surrounded by her family, and grew up with a dragon egg in her cribb. It is likely Silverwing hatched with her as a child, rather than in a funeral pyre full of blood magic and human sacrifices.
Still, none of that negates your point. She may well have had good intentions. From her perspective, I'd imagine she did. But I believe a Targaryen perspective tends to be antithetical and adversarial to natural forms of life. I imagine her to be a Valyrian version of Cersei (pulling her husband's strings), with Tyrion's mind and Dany's dreams.
Quick question, the VS version of Ice apparently came into the possession of House Stark about 400 years ago, yes ? Is that not roughly about the time House Targaryen tipped up on Dragonstone ?
Indeed it is. I think VS was a very marketable item for the colony on Dragonstone, and I'm thinking this is when all of the great houses began acquiring VS swords...except for House Dayne, the keepers of the original Ice.
I tend to agree - the only 'nukes' in Westeros are dragons and whatever lies far north. If you want total control, you need to hold all the nukes.
I agree with your agreement. LOL. But yeah, I'm not seeing any other nukes either. wolfmaid7 and a few others have proposed that the Stark children are being acquired by various factions to use as nukes as well, but I just don't see it. Compared to dragons, or Others, the Starks are only fodder. We have ice made flesh riding down on the winds of winter from the Lands of Always Winter (a white wasteland), and fire made flesh riding the wind from the Red Waste.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I agree with your agreement. LOL. But yeah, I'm not seeing any other nukes either. wolfmaid7 and a few others have proposed that the Stark children are being acquired by various factions to use as nukes as well, but I just don't see it. Compared to dragons, or Others, the Starks are only fodder. We have ice made flesh riding down on the winds of winter from the Lands of Always Winter (a white wasteland), and fire made flesh riding the wind from the Red Waste.
This would be the case only if we're assuming the direwolves are the ice equivalent of dragons, but that may not be the case. Yes, the Starks are wargs (skinchangers), but you don't have to be a Stark to be a skinchanger, so that may not be the true power of what being a Stark means. I think the White Walkers are the ice equivalent of dragons and that Starks have to die in order to become one. Only life can pay for death, as in the deaths of Drogo, Rhaego and Mirri did for the dragons. Jon Snow will pay for the ice life of becoming a White Walker with his own death. Just you wait and see!
You had me till right there, then ya lost me. I agree with all of the above and with some of the latter too, lol, but I'm not sure about the essential nature of dragonriders though.
My bad, let me know if I need to explain my reasoning more. Not sure what lost ya...
I can see what you mean, and while I agree in general, I'm not at all clear that is the case here. If conquering and consuming is that ingrained, then why stop at the Wall? After all she's leaving a rather big chunk of land up there that is usable. Not to mention the people she could subjugate. The Haunted Forest alone could generate some income for the crown and it would also make allies of the those conquered if she's so minded. After all she does sound a pretty good politician. What better way to hem in the Starks then by befriending their nearest foe? See where I'm going with this? You want to take the Starks down a peg, give the wildlings enticements to support you and suddenly the Starks are having to watch their backs from folk that have a right to be on the land, rather than raiders they can kill with impunity.
I don't think GQA was land-hungry. I think she perceived a root of power that she wanted to starve out.
She would if she really knew what lay beyond it. I don't know if GQA or any of them believe in tales of the Others or even the Singers. Like you said a lot of the magical power was lost with the Andal invasion, I think the belief was lost too. Not saying that she wouldn't be able to feel the power of the magic from the Black Gate, and I am with you on the wanting to distract others from realising it's power is still there and strong. Perhaps she thought it best if no one remembered it was there, or that only those with the right grounding (is that the word I'm looking for) in said power have control over it. In other words, the crown. If the crown can't control what passes through, then no one will pass through.
Precisely my thinking. The crown could not control not only what passed through the Black Gate, but the Black Gate itself. We've seen how it might open, and I'm guessing the "King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm" schpiel won't gain passage.
In another seventy five years, a man of First Men descent will be born to a Targaryen King. At the height of his political career, he will speak the vows, become a sworn brother of the Night's Watch, and be chosen as Lord Commander. Rather than relocate the Night's Watch to the Nightfort and reclaim the ancient seat of their power, he will abandon his post for another type of power, and make common cause with the cotf and a brother with cold hands. This raises a lot of questions.
This would be the case only if we're assuming the direwolves are the ice equivalent of dragons, but that may not be the case. Yes, the Starks are wargs (skinchangers), but you don't have to be a Stark to be a skinchanger, so that may not be the true power of what being a Stark means. I think the White Walkers are the ice equivalent of dragons and that Starks have to die in order to become one. Only life can pay for death, as in the deaths of Drogo, Rhaego and Mirri did for the dragons. Jon Snow will pay for the ice life of becoming a White Walker with his own death. Just you wait and see!
Ah, I see what you mean. I totally see then how that makes dead Starks into potential nukes. A few points in favor of such a notion:
Ned X game
"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
Foreshadowing of Jon's future eye color?
Jon XII dance
Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared. The world dissolved into a red mist. Jon stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donal Noye and gutted Deaf Dick Follard. Qhorin Halfhand stumbled to his knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. "I am the Lord of Winterfell," Jon screamed. It was Robb before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off. Then a gnarled hand seized Jon roughly by the shoulder. He whirled …
Robb as an Other?
And perhaps most of all, these passages below, which, in a certain light, can all be seen as being about Jon Snow-Eyes:
Bran VII game
"Symeon Star-Eyes," Luwin said as he marked numbers in a book. "When he lost his eyes, he put star sapphires in the empty sockets, or so the singers claim. Bran, that is only a story, like the tales of Florian the Fool. A fable from the Age of Heroes." The maester tsked. "You must put these dreams aside, they will only break your heart."
Sansa V clash
"True knights." The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now."
Sam I feast, repeated in Jon II dance (quite explicitly about Jon)
You know the tales, Brandon the Builder, Symeon Star-Eyes, Night's King . . . we say that you're the nine hundred and ninety-eighth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but the oldest list I've found shows six hundred seventy-four commanders, which suggests that it was written during . . ."
Davos IV dance
Not every man has it in him to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight or Symeon Star-Eyes, and not every woman can be as brave as my Wylla and her sister Wynafryd … who did know, yet played her own part fearlessly.
Was this Wylla in the quote Wylla Manderly? How old was that character again? A teenager, if my memory serves?
Good memory She's five and ten, or thereabouts. Mostly included that because of the name, and tie-in to Jon's wetnurse and Symeon Star-Eyes. Pretty cool.
After further meditation, only life can pay for the un-dead. I wonder if that's why some Targaryens thought their own deaths could bring about their rebirth as a dragon? One drank wildfire and another burned himself alive. When they forgot how to hatch dragon eggs they maybe modeled themselves after the Starks?
I don't think so, only because Stark traditions and magical power had waned completely by the time Targs could no longer hatch their dragons without bloodmagic.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
After further meditation, only life can pay for the un-dead. I wonder if that's why some Targaryens thought their own deaths could bring about their rebirth as a dragon? One drank wildfire and another burned himself alive. When they forgot how to hatch dragon eggs they maybe modeled themselves after the Starks?
I think that may go back to the beginning of dragon bonding. Blood and Fire and all that jazz. Old school if you will.
Same here. "Fire and Blood" sounds like daily life for the first faceless men.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Hmm good stuff guys. Much to say about your comments above @serduncan and @danceswithflagons, but I'm in line for Hyperspace Mountain at Disneyland, and am keyboardless at the moment. There must be something wrong with me if I'd rather be at home, digging up quotes, instead of "having fun" at an amusement park, but there it is. Lol
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
It's right there between these two that you lost me. The essential nature of dragonriders and the motives for GQA's wanting to subjugate only the Starks. One doesn't seem to go hand in hand with the other. It's not the land that's important so much as those that hold it. If you want to weaken the Starks, make common cause with their nearest foe. That way the crown and it's new allies can hem the Starks in north and south.
Well, that's sort of what GQA did, imo. Rather than make common cause with those who refuse to kneel, she made common cause with a trained military force that was used to kneeling, and leadership. By weakening Winterfell's connection to the Wall, and strengthening the IT's, GQA did precisely what you suggest, and in one fell swoop of her dragon, placed thousands of trained and organized swords at the back of Lord Stark. And, in the process, I'm thinking she also severed the far more threatening magical connection (from a dragon dreamer's perspective).
I guess what I'm trying to say is do what Jon did out of compassion, but for politically astute reasons, not because it's humans against the long night. Give the wildlings that are willing to behave free passage. They can keep their lands to the north of the Wall and move freely between the two.
I hear ya, but the wildlings were a desperate measure for desperate times. GQA found the NW healthy and thriving two hundred years ago. I think a wildling alliance would have been dismissed by them out of hand, and it certainly would have been shunned by those living on the New Gift.
The New Gift wasn't depopulated, it was only given over for the NW to use. Why the people left is another reason. Stark reasons I would think. Stark would loose the income from the lands, but not the people if he repopulates the Hills or the Wolf's Wood. Even if he's less land rich, he will not have lost the industry and the numbers if he goes and takes them further south. Now would GQA be pissed off? Sure. What could she do about it though? Not a lot. How do we know this? History. The New Gift was depopulated because the NW couldn't defend them from raiders and the Starks no longer had control of the land, which presumably kept the folk on the NG safe before it was handed over to the NW.
Precisely. I think GQA gave the NW a gift beyond their means... a house they could not maintain...
The original Gift was meant, per Maester Luwin, to merely be enough land for their "sustenance and support". The Gift provided that, adequately, for 8,000 years. GQA then suddenly doubled it one day. And, rather than funnel more funding their way to help manage this doubling of property, she found ways for them to cut costs, and relocated the NW from their ancestral stronghold that was "too costly" to maintain.
Each act worsens the other, in terms of NW sustainability. And, this effectively doubles the distance between the Warden of the North and the Lord Commander. Neglecting support from the Night's Watch, and beyond the hospitality and justice of Winterfell, New Gift residents have no alternative but to abandon their holdings. While not Chernobyl, the lands of the New Gift immediately cease providing "sustenance and support" to both Winterfell and the Wall.
It is worth noting that a parallel fate befalls Castle Black and the Nightfort. The older fort (Brandon's Gift) is in arguably better condition than the new castle (the New Gift).
One of the questions it raises is why didn't GQA try a similar tack? Not the joining the Watch, but treat with those beyond the Wall? We know BR must have learned of the CotF in a similar way to Bran learning of them, from tales and then an emissary being sent in one form or another. I'm not suggesting that she could in any way do the same, but it just seems too strange that having taken the opportunity to go that far north, not to fly a bit further and investigate.
I wouldn't be surprised if BR met and learned from Coldhands directly, or Leaf, rather than an Osha. No telling though.
It is strange we don't hear of GQA and the Old King venturing into the far north beyond the Wall. Mayhaps it stops more than wind?
As far as the similar tack goes, that seems less practical. The Free Folk don't kneel, and the Targaryens create kneelers. Even if a king beyond the Wall happened to kneel to her, I'd wager the vast majority of his people wouldn't. Not all royals are as easygoing as Stannis. LOL
And I agree, there is no way BR didn't know of the Black Gate, so it does point to the closing of the NF to be a pre-emptive strike. Better the new NW, that's lost it's focus, not know what's at the bottom of the well. Too dangerous by half if there are a bunch of beings with the power to raise the dead to get through. After all, if Coldhands wasn't there on a specific mission, then what would stop one of the other dead and walking brothers from opening the gate if, at the time of their death they knew not only that the gate exists, but where and how to open it. They clearly retain their 'life' memories.
Rather than wights, I'm more worried ("looking forward to..." lol) the Others themselves using the Black Gate. If Night's King does in fact remain in the far north, as the true King beyond the Wall, then he is far older than anyone we've met so far in the series, save maybe Coldhands. He'd be a true half forgotten demon out of legend, and I'm thinking he would not only know about the gate's existence and how to use it, but that it would be his gate.
While I'm here, I want to bring up Leaf and the Singers again. I threw this out there at the outset of this thread then I got lost in translation. Heh. When the Queen disturbed the Watch, the Starks and the North she also stirred up the Green lot and white lot too. I think that is why Leaf took her walkabout. Mayhaps they knew this was a sign of the end times: greendreams/foresight or just ages old wisdom. Mayhaps it was a signal to find a one eye dragon man to sit the weirwood throne as "the last greenseer." The Singers and Seers knew that this was the beginning of the end.
Mayhaps, but the white lot had not been seen in 8000 years, and the green lot were nearly as unheard of.
I'm not convinced the Singers care about the end. They seem rather fatalistic and apathetic about it all. Rather than searching for players, I think they are content to lounge about and chew on their hallucinogenic trees.
How far did Leaf to go to find Bran? As far as her front door. LOL
I do not know what the greenseeing, warg Stark will do, if anything, for the last of the cotf. But I do believe the good queen set in motion what is happening in the cave.
I think the Good Queen sought to end the types of motion we are seeing in the cave. And, of course, that very well could have had the unintended consequence of only making it stronger.
So are you seeing this as a cotf vs dragon dynamic?
Actually, I think Bran may be there to make an end to it all. After all, Bloodraven is the last greenseer. Not Bran.
Nice. If Jojen was the active ingredient in Bran's paste, mayhaps Bran will be the same for BR. There is also still a chance Bran might leave, leaving BR to remain the last, though it seems like a one-way trip for their party. I can't help but think ("His name is Summer") that Bran will be the dreamer who Dreams of Spring.
Random thought time. For some reason thinking of this made me wonder if Hodor has been prepped as a vessel for Jon. Hodor's reach with Jon's prowess would make for a fearsome warrior. Mayhaps Bran and company will armor him in obsidian, and fix him up a new sword.
Possibly the cold ones haven't been seen in thousands of years. They were never said to been exterminated, just driven north. The children of the forest were supposedly gone also, but we know they were just hidden away.
Completely agree. They are each half-forgotten beings out of legend. I've long held that the Others, in exactly the same way as the cotf, were never exterminated, just driven north. There, they bide their time. The recent return is proof of this, as are other indicators which I'll get to in my origin theory which I've finally started writing up.
If the Singers don't care then why bring Bloodraven and then another human greenseer into their home? Just for internet connection?
No. I think that the cotf are not like Men who see the land as something to be carved up and owned. For them, the Old Gods and the gods of the north are simply The Gods - and who are they to deny anyone access to them? ...particularly descendants of the First Men with whom they forged a Pact, and whom adopted their gods on the Isle of Faces.
The motivations of the cave dwellers is still unclear. Leaf walked the realms for two hundred years for some reason other than vacation and exercise, I think.
Sure, but travel in and of itself is not all that suspicious to me. Leaf walked her native environment for two hundred years.
No. I see it as the dragons visit to the North and the Wall stirred up the green lot. All these happenings 'two hundred years' ago affected the North, the Wall and North of the wall. The Singers are part of it too. Their passivity does not negate their involvement in Westeros' future. What little future they might have. Like I was saying, it could be the beginning of the end for the cotf. Or the last chance for some preservation of their trees and knowledge. OR, the northern woods and forests will become less populated giving opportunity to walk the woods again. For a time.
Ah, I getcha. And agree with the first paragraph. While I do think they bear a passive acceptance of "the way things are", including their own pending extinction, I do not think they are passive characters in the song of ice and fire, nor in events that might cause harm to their land.
Only one thing has ever caused the cotf to fight, and that has been the destruction of weirwoods.
voice: before I forget: we were talking on Heresy again about the winged wolf. Made me think about the Winged Knight, the hero subsumed under the Arryn title. How martin keeps bringing it up via another frail child (Robin) who, like Bran, is encouraged by talk of flight. Those stories are Sansa's best way to calm him down.
Comparing that to Dany's dream about "waking the dragon." As ladybarbrey pointed out, that dream can be read as the rulers with white swords warning Dany to run faster, away from the dragon, so as not to wake it. But Dany embraces it. And flies. But it leaves her with the taste of ashes in her mouth. All is consumed. And the dreams of gaining wings are painful.
Am wondering if the Winged Knight or Winged Wolf are tied to Westerosi heroes who "fly." Who enter the weirwoods and fly around the continent. Who can enter animals--flying upon a falcon. Etc.
While the dragon is the counterfeit. Woken with magic vs. naturally occurring.
And I'm wondering if there's anything in the fact that the Stranger statue in the Dragonstone Sept is carved as more animal than man. Like a beastling? Same with Mel's vision of the great other--a greenseer with his beastling, warg companion. Aegean seems to have only converted to the seven after the conquest. So, is part of the reason they invaded shown in what they fear, how they see death: the animal/man Stranger in their sept? As far as I can tell, that's the only mention of the Stranger looking like that. Happy to be corrected.
And I'm out of time.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
This may not be the right thread to bring this up, but my theory about the Others is that the magical creatures young Wayman encountered weren't the actual physical form of the Others.
I'm intrigued. And the Others are always welcome in my threads. LOL
The only issue I would take with this theory is that the Prologue names them as "Others". I myself would rather them not be, actually, as I prefer to think of the True or Original Others of the Long Night as having ice spider mounts or at the very least, ice spider hounds with which to hunt. Are you familiar with my hierarchy? It's crazy, but a fellow reader I had no prior contact with actually came up with the same hierarchy from studying soup, believe it or not.
He'll become undead like the Others are, but the Others can also create white shadows like the forms Waymar encountered, and this magical form is a spell that can be broken with obsidian or Valyrian steel.
We've yet to see V-steel do the trick, but I agree it is likely the dragonsteel of lore.
If Jon is Otherized, I hope it is more like Symeon Star Eyes, and less like Jafer Flowers.
This does not mean that the Other is dead, however. To get to the actual, physical undead Other you would need to travel further north to the heart of winter.
I very much agree that Bran sees them beyond that curtain.
This is the true power of what being a Stark is, but to further expand on the theory I also believe that the Bolton's are an offshoot of the Starks. They "bolted" like when a plant "bolts". The Starks and Boltons share genes, but the offshoot Boltons corrupted their abilities and used them for evil, while the Starks retained their honor. Both families share the same magical ability to become undead.
If the true power of being a Stark is to become a true Other, then that makes the Starks as unnatural as Targaryen dragonlords. I don't think they are.
Edited to add: this is also why we haven't seen Benjen. He's dead, or rather undead and has made his way to the heart of winter to battle his undead relatives.
Benjen's disappearance (abduction?) must be related to the Others, though I do not think he could make his way to the heart of winter unless, as you say, he's either dead or undead, and I don't want him to be. Again, I'd vote for a Symeonization, or a Ben that returns grey-eyed and warm-blooded.
voice: before I forget: we were talking on Heresy again about the winged wolf. Made me think about the Winged Knight, the hero subsumed under the Arryn title. How martin keeps bringing it up via another frail child (Robin) who, like Bran, is encouraged by talk of flight. Those stories are Sansa's best way to calm him down.
Sure. Winged wolves, winged knights, winged chalices, winged words. Wolves howl, knights sing, chalices pour ice and fire, and words are wind.
House Arryn (Andal) is our modern winged falcon knighthood. Lord Robert now has his own lordsguard. Mayhaps he'll be the one on the Iron Throne in the end. LOL.
I think Bran has found his throne, and is now wed and chained to it. The warg-block failed, and Bran stands to become the most powerful warg in memory. This litter of pups is the undoing of all GQA's noble intentions.
Comparing that to Dany's dream about "waking the dragon." As ladybarbrey pointed out, that dream can be read as the rulers with white swords warning Dany to run faster, away from the dragon, so as not to wake it. But Dany embraces it. And flies. But it leaves her with the taste of ashes in her mouth. All is consumed. And the dreams of gaining wings are painful.
True, I think. If Dany had not woken the dragon, she would have remained far more natural a child-woman of surpassing loveliness, than the fearsome mother of fire she has become. But then, as Sansa must weigh and balance wolfishness with ladyness, so too must Dany weigh dragonhood against humanity. And her humanity lost the tilt the second she chose to sacrifice her child to save Drogo's life.
It seems to me GQA was waging a similar battle in the north. Fire consumes, and the Wall melted a bit under her stewardship.
Am wondering if the Winged Knight or Winged Wolf are tied to Westerosi heroes who "fly." Who enter the weirwoods and fly around the continent. Who can enter animals--flying upon a falcon. Etc.
Mayhaps, but the wolf Jojen saw in his dreams was winged and chained. I'm thinking the chain is a necessary quality, rather than a predicament from which Bran could be saved. The 3EC told Bran he would fly, and his arms drank the wind, but there has been a price for that gift.
In the case of the Winged Knight, and falcon mounts, these seem far less tethered in the tales. It might well be that they are, particularly if Preston Jacobs is correct in his idea that Robert Arryn is green-gifted, and being possessed by his weirwood throne. In such a case, I see the cotf as librarians collecting their dues. Debts are paid not in blood, but in consciousness. I think those gifted with warghood exhibit fractured/blended consciousness. Haggon was right.
And I'm wondering if there's anything in the fact that the Stranger statue in the Dragonstone Sept is carved as more animal than man. Like a beastling? Same with Mel's vision of the great other--a greenseer with his beastling, warg companion. Aegean seems to have only converted to the seven after the conquest. So, is part of the reason they invaded shown in what they fear, how they see death: the animal/man Stranger in their sept? As far as I can tell, that's the only mention of the Stranger looking like that. Happy to be corrected.
Ah, here we may diverge a bit. While I believe the Andal Faith of the Seven is most certainly the source of the negative rap warghood receives south of the Wall, and that the Stranger (being a representation of the ominous-unknown) likely was cast in such a animalistic way intentionally, I do not think Mel is of the same branch of magic as is Dany/Targ/Valyria.
Being that the sept in question is on Dragonstone, I think it highly likely Targaryens would portray the Stranger in a Wargish light. I too see the Stark/FM/cotf branch in a more natural light, and believe this is precisely why GQA sought to break it.
Mel's branch, while not without insights of its own that are, at times, quite accurate, seems to be of shadow, rather than wood or fire. Fire consumes the ever-preserving weirwood, and casts many shadows in the process.
I think the flying will turn out to be the ability of Bran's spirit to "travel" without the need for host (weirwood, wolf, or human) and be able to return to his body at will.
In that case, he's already done it.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."