Post by regular jon umber on Nov 3, 2015 7:22:57 GMT
The other pups hadn't crawled away from the mother had they? They were all thereabouts? Maybe it's symbolic of Jon having to find his inner direwolf himself?
Bran could hear the wind in the trees, the clatter of their hooves on the ironwood planks, the whimpering of his hungry pup, but Jon was listening to something else.
Is the ironwood bridge for the protection of the pups or a symbol of the protection the pups provide to the Stark children?
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Well, DarkSister1001 on my Westeros thread has proposed that the Winds of Winter might actually apply to the rising of the Starks from the crypts. That would be a Grey Wind, no? A return?
Ghost is right by the mom. How does Robb miss him?
Well, in his defense Robb can't help it. His eyes haven't even opened yet, and the pup was white and mute. Ghost and Jon, alone, have their eyes open - and so it may not have been all that difficult for the sixth pup to have hidden from the unobservant grey wolf.
Yeah. That never stood out until now. The pup must have wandered off then returned. Or he was hidden under the snow. Snow, Ned!
Ha! I like Ned's idea, and Jon's. I can't help but feel like they aren't talking about the pup, but instead, the sixth child of Winterfell in this passage:
"He must have crawled away from the others," Jon said. "Or been driven away," their father said, looking at the sixth pup.
It's obviously been a while since I read aGoT because I've never thought of Ghost as an Albino. I wonder if that's significant? Or is Theon just a dummy who doesn't realise he's intentionally coloured that way?
Bloodraven is also an albino, so I think it is very significant indeed. Also consider this notion: if average/normal trees are brown and green, with amber sap, then Weir-woods are simply AlbinoTrees.
Weir-wood (heart trees), Weir-man (Bloodraven), Weir-raven (white ravens bred at the citadel to signal changes in season), Weir-wolf (Ghost). Weir-things seem intrinsically connected to the seasons and the song (unlike dragons, imo).
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Jon hears Ghost's silent cry as he later hears Ghost cry out in his wolf dream on the Skirling Pass. Ghost reaches out here as he later reaches out for his siblings in that dream. At this moment Jon is the only one to hear the silent cry, but later on Bran hears the mute wolf howl and responds silently.
Yes--the pack is only powerful if they learn to hear each other. Jon starts with Ghost.
Bloodraven is also an albino, so I think it is very significant indeed. Also consider this notion: if average/normal trees are brown and green, with amber sap, then Weir-woods are simply AlbinoTrees.
Weir-wood (heart trees), Weir-man (Bloodraven), Weir-raven (white ravens bred at the citadel to signal changes in season), Weir-wolf (Ghost). Weir-things seem intrinsically connected to the seasons and the song (unlike dragons, imo).
And albinos in general are seen as set apart. As emissaries of magic. More so than other animals.
I have no idea how much Martin knows his etymology, but "weirs"--they are put across rivers to slow the flow, to make the natural world more workable for humans. A type of intermediary from the brutal force of nature.
Is the ironwood bridge for the protection of the pups or a symbol of the protection the pups provide to the Stark children?
Maybe both? Am also wondering if this goes back to the ironwood stump Gared is executed on. Does this lend credence to the "Gared was a sacrifice" idea?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
And albinos in general are seen as set apart. As emissaries of magic. More so than other animals.
Preach!
Remember the White Hart?
A Game of Thrones - Sansa III It would have been unkind to say so, however, so Sansa took a sip of milk and changed the subject. "I had a dream that Joffrey would be the one to take the white hart," she said. It had been more of a wish, actually, but it sounded better to call it a dream. Everyone knew that dreams were prophetic. White harts were supposed to be very rare and magical, and in her heart she knew her gallant prince was worthier than his drunken father. "A dream? Truly? Did Prince Joffrey just go up to it and touch it with his bare hand and do it no harm?"
Ha! Yeah Jeyne, that sounds like what Joff would do. Oh and hey wolfmaid7, if Robert is Jon's father, this White Hart hunt seems all the more intriguing, and troubling.
It is worth noting that another young man was gifted a rare and seemingly magical white animal though... And they eat Hearts Harts:
A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII "Is there word of the king?" Ned demanded. "Just how long does Robert intend to hunt?" "Given his preferences, I believe he'd stay in the forest until you and the queen both die of old age," Lord Petyr replied with a faint smile. "Lacking that, I imagine he'll return as soon as he's killed something. They found the white hart, it seems … or rather, what remained of it. Some wolves found it first, and left His Grace scarcely more than a hoof and a horn. Robert was in a fury, until he heard talk of some monstrous boar deeper in the forest. Then nothing would do but he must have it. Prince Joffrey returned this morning, with the Royces, Ser Balon Swann, and some twenty others of the party. The rest are still with the king."
Do you see what I see?
Robert was in a fury because his albino-sigil was killed by wolves. Sound familiar?
I have no idea how much Martin knows his etymology, but "weirs"--they are put across rivers to slow the flow, to make the natural world more workable for humans. A type of intermediary from the brutal force of nature.
Nice. I have a feeling Martin is quite knowledgeable in the realm of etymology. Dracaerys always reminded me of Latin "draco" (dragon) and "Aries" (a fire sign)... which reminds me. I should write up my Valyrian language theory stuff. LOL
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII "Is there word of the king?" Ned demanded. "Just how long does Robert intend to hunt?" "Given his preferences, I believe he'd stay in the forest until you and the queen both die of old age," Lord Petyr replied with a faint smile. "Lacking that, I imagine he'll return as soon as he's killed something. They found the white hart, it seems … or rather, what remained of it. Some wolves found it first, and left His Grace scarcely more than a hoof and a horn. Robert was in a fury, until he heard talk of some monstrous boar deeper in the forest. Then nothing would do but he must have it. Prince Joffrey returned this morning, with the Royces, Ser Balon Swann, and some twenty others of the party. The rest are still with the king."
Do you see what I see?
Robert was in a fury because his albino-sigil was killed by wolves. Sound familiar?
And it's the revers of this scene. Here, the death of the direwolf mother still produces living sigils. Including the magical albino one. But killing the white hart--no more magic. The wolves have undone the magical connection vs. the stag's facilitating 6 magical connections in this chapter.
Martin does this a few times--points out how people are disconnected from natural magics. Even the Stark kids resist it at times. But the cuddly little pups--those they can't resist.
If you want to get people to accept magic, send it in the form of a puppy.
Nice. I have a feeling Martin is quite knowledgeable in the realm of etymology. Dracaerys always reminded me of Latin "draco" (dragon) and "Aries" (a fire sign)... which reminds me. I should write up my Valyrian language theory stuff. LOL
Good point! And yes--write it up (if you have time). But the weirs--he says he named the trees for Bob Weir. But I agree--seems unlikely he doesn't know what a weir is.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Maybe both? Am also wondering if this goes back to the ironwood stump Gared is executed on. Does this lend credence to the "Gared was a sacrifice" idea?
Weir-wood (heart trees), Weir-man (Bloodraven), Weir-raven (white ravens bred at the citadel to signal changes in season), Weir-wolf (Ghost). Weir-things seem intrinsically connected to the seasons and the song (unlike dragons, imo).
I really like this! The only problem that I potentially see with this is that I believe they specify that the white ravens at the Citadel are not album is and have black eyes, not red. Not sure if that would mess with the symbolism or not?
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
The only problem that I potentially see with this is that I believe they specify that the white ravens at the Citadel are not album is and have black eyes, not red. Not sure if that would mess with the symbolism or not?
I don't think it would mess it up too much. I'm not sure how they would create a subspecies of larger, white ravens without breeding them with albinos. Just a hunch of course, but considering the closeness between cotf, greenseers, and ravens, and the history of ravenry itself, I'm thinking the Maesters are cheaply imitating the purer artform of the Singers. Their little grey mousey minds can't handle full on red-eyed albinism.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Maybe both? Am also wondering if this goes back to the ironwood stump Gared is executed on. Does this lend credence to the "Gared was a sacrifice" idea?
Weir-wood (heart trees), Weir-man (Bloodraven), Weir-raven (white ravens bred at the citadel to signal changes in season), Weir-wolf (Ghost). Weir-things seem intrinsically connected to the seasons and the song (unlike dragons, imo).
I really like this! The only problem that I potentially see with this is that I believe they specify that the white ravens at the Citadel are not album is and have black eyes, not red. Not sure if that would mess with the symbolism or not?
The weirwoods always remind me of Dune, and the Bene Gesserit's Weirding Way.
The weirwoods always remind me of Dune, and the Bene Gesserit's Weirding Way.
Well, this has to have been mentioned before, but just in case: weird comes from "wyrd"--meaning destiny. Eventually came to mean "one who can control or influence destiny/fate" (the weird sisters). Now just means uncanny.
So, the weirwoods as trees tied to destiny/fate--like the Weirding Way--yup. It works.
Though weir's etymology is literally "to dam up". Still, with a few mental gymnastics, what are weirwoods but reservoirs of collected/dammed up knowledge?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
"Done," Jon said, kicking his horse forward. Robb cursed and followed, and they galloped off down the trail, Robb laughing and hooting, Jon silent and intent. The hooves of their horses kicked up showers of snow as they went.
You have a comparison there, but not of Neds son and Lyannas son. It is Robb as Brandon and Jon as Ned. One outgoing and the other quiet and shy. I hazard a guess both boys are older than presumed.
Could the pressure required to make a puncture wound be enough to snap off the other tines as it became embedded?
Think about the size and structure of the direwolf - canine type but much larger = heavy structural bones. Mama would be extremely heavy due to the six pups,not to mention a bit clumsy due to unaccustomed weight.So I would think whether territorial stand off or an attempt to capture prey I have to go with Voice - stag not dagger. Voice beat me to it lol hadn't read that far
Last Edit: Aug 27, 2016 15:05:21 GMT by giyuga: double quote
"Done," Jon said, kicking his horse forward. Robb cursed and followed, and they galloped off down the trail, Robb laughing and hooting, Jon silent and intent. The hooves of their horses kicked up showers of snow as they went.
You have a comparison there, but not of Neds son and Lyannas son. It is Robb as Brandon and Jon as Ned. One outgoing and the other quiet and shy. I hazard a guess both boys are older than presumed.
I think they are already acting like their wolf pups. Grey Wind was probably yowling at this very moment as Ghost left their dead mother in silence.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Though weir's etymology is literally "to dam up". Still, with a few mental gymnastics, what are weirwoods but reservoirs of collected/dammed up knowledge?
“Urd” (pronounced “URD”; Old Norse Urðr, Old English Wyrd) means “destiny.” The Well of Urd could therefore just as aptly be called the Well of Destiny. The spelling is run through to weird in the translations of the myths on a website called timelessmyths.com. Norse mythology seems to be heavily borrowed from in ASOIF. But sorry only know this stuff because I like the Thor movies.
I've pulled this far enough off topic. there are some things in Catelyns chapter I'm waiting for. The wolves seem almost baby sitters though, first contact imprint style.