Hard for me to choose between N+A=J and A+L=J. I picked NAJ only because I just did the essay thing for the project. But really, Arthur seems just as likely to me. That brothel chapter still negates RLJ for me, and I'm seeing Jon wielding Dawn. No one else makes sense as the Sword of the Morning.
Agree that if Dawn ends up being necessary, Jon's being a Dayne may be crucial. Although we don't know why "only a worthy Dayne" can wield Dawn. Tradition? Magic? Do they put the sword back into the remnants of the fallen star and people take turns trying to King Arthur it out of the stone? Don't know.
For now, I vote Rhaegar. Because we have them on page interacting with the roses. Because those roses are tied to Lyanna like glue. And because no one on page denies the common understanding that R took L. Iron clad reasons? Not on my life (or yours). But they are on page.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
For now, I vote Rhaegar. Because we have them on page interacting with the roses. Because those roses are tied to Lyanna like glue. And because no one on page denies the common understanding that R took L. Iron clad reasons? Not on my life (or yours). But they are on page.
Good! And way to speak up for what you believe no matter which way the majority leans in these parts. It's nice to have you and kingmonkey here to play it up for the RLJ team.
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I'm still leaning towards R+L, although I like the idea of Jon as a Dayne. I'll see if further discussion of the essays changes my mind (I haven't read the A+L one thoroughly yet)
I'm still leaning towards R+L, although I like the idea of Jon as a Dayne. I'll see if further discussion of the essays changes my mind (I haven't read the A+L one thoroughly yet)
3 of you, eh? What about Lady Dyanna? Is she on team Rhaegar, too?
the more I think about it, the more I fall in love with the Dayne idea. Ye hear that, @superunknown5? Emotionally I like Howland, too, but waiting for FFR to set me straight with my questions in his theory.
From a completely logical standpoint, I still lean toward Ned and Wylla, and I'm really not 100% sure about anything. I've mentioned before that I think Lyanna could still have had a baby and died violently. One doesn't need to be mutually exclusive of the other.
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I'm still leaning towards R+L, although I like the idea of Jon as a Dayne. I'll see if further discussion of the essays changes my mind (I haven't read the A+L one thoroughly yet)
3 of you, eh? What about Lady Dyanna? Is she on team Rhaegar, too?
the more I think about it, the more I fall in love with the Dayne idea. Ye hear that, @superunknown5? Emotionally I like Howland, too, but waiting for FFR to set me straight with my questions in his theory.
From a completely logical standpoint, I still lean toward Ned and Wylla, and I'm really not 100% sure about anything. I've mentioned before that I think Lyanna could still have had a baby and died violently. One doesn't need to be mutually exclusive of the other.
Nope, wasn't me. I was a write in. My confused mind can't decide itself right now... ::shuffle::
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody elseโs shouldnโt? The I-will to their better-nots?
AD & Lyanna are @superunknown5 and?? Who are the other two?
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
DAN WEISS: He asked us, โWho is Jon Snowโs mother?โ We had discussed it before, and we gave a shocking answer. At that point, George didnโt actually say whether or not we were right or wrong, but his smile was his tell. We knew we had passed the Wonka test, at that point.
Later in the interview,
BENIOFF: We pitched HBO and Showtime, a few weeks after we met with George. That was March of 2006, seven years ago.
So the question I have for the members here is, was R+L=J a well known theory by 2006? I was 13 at the time and hadn't read the books. Because if R+L=J was well known by that time would it really be shocking to give the answer of Lyanna as Jon Snow's Mother?
Hard for me to choose between N+A=J and A+L=J. I picked NAJ only because I just did the essay thing for the project. But really, Arthur seems just as likely to me. That brothel chapter still negates RLJ for me, and I'm seeing Jon wielding Dawn. No one else makes sense as the Sword of the Morning.
Mayhaps I'm getting crotchety and taking this Jon-parentage thing too seriously though. Overthinking it.
I think Rhaegar is a red herring. House Dayne could be as well.
Mayhaps I should dig deeper into the sexual history of one Tormund Giantsbane. Mayhaps his she-bear was actually Maege Mormont. Mayhaps Ned raised their cub?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
@danceswithflagons, will you tell me who you voted for? Or pm it to me? This is important, I'm playing a game of logical deduction to figure something out...
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
BENIOFF: We pitched HBO and Showtime, a few weeks after we met with George. That was March of 2006, seven years ago.
So the question I have for the members here is, was R+L=J a well known theory by 2006? I was 13 at the time and hadn't read the books. Because if R+L=J was well known by that time would it really be shocking to give the answer of Lyanna as Jon Snow's Mother?
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
BENIOFF: We pitched HBO and Showtime, a few weeks after we met with George. That was March of 2006, seven years ago.
So the question I have for the members here is, was R+L=J a well known theory by 2006? I was 13 at the time and hadn't read the books. Because if R+L=J was well known by that time would it really be shocking to give the answer of Lyanna as Jon Snow's Mother?
George RR Martin published A Game of Thrones, the first book in the A Song of Ice and Fire series, which the HBO show Game of Thrones is based on, on August 6th, 1996. The first mention of the R+L=J fan theory online comes from fan forum A Forum of Ice and Fire[1] in a thread created by user Stark Future on May 2nd, 2006, titled โThe Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread.โ
I did confirm that Stark Future did post that on May 2nd, 2006. So D&D gave their answer to GRRM a few months before it was widely known on the forums. It makes me wonder if at the time giving the answer of Lyanna would be shocking, or the answer they gave would be shocking now? if that makes sense?
as to your other question, it was asked who the mother was, not his parents. And he didn't verbally confirm. He could have been laughing at their answer for all we know.
โNever forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.โ โ George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
as to your other question, it was asked who the mother was, not his parents. And he didn't verbally confirm. He could have been laughing at their answer for all we know.
Yup he just asked about the mother. And you are right they could have been wrong. It is possible that they gave GRRM the answer he wanted them to give, given the canon that was out at that time, but their answer could still have been wrong? if that makes sense?