Unless Robb is also older than we think he is? There has been questions raised that possibly Robb is Brandon's son, and not Eddards. That could make him several months older than we think, and perhaps that is enough for your theory to fit Jon and Dany.
I think Jon is possibly older than he appears.
"I am almost a man grown," Jon protested. "I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says bastards grow up faster than other children."
Always makes me wonder...
For a long time, I was sure that Jon was older. Now, I am about 50/50 on it. And I wonder if he is older, if everyone knows it. It's only in Catelyn's distorted POV that we get a hint that Jon could be younger. But that might be her deluding herself, so as not to feel even more threatened by Jon's place at Winterfell.
I have also come to wonder if Jon isn't taller than Robb, although previously, I had always believed that Robb was the bigger of the two boys. Of course, people have growth streaks at different times, so greater height doesn't necessarily mean one is elder or not.
But this comment by Maester Luwin, I do wonder if it's a hint that Jon is elder, of it's just something that is commonly said of bastards?
Just decided to vote for... Arthur+Lyanna =Jon lol. I'm actually not 100% sold on it, but it's fun to think about, and lo and behold! It's the most popular one so far lmao!
Actually...Jamies fever dream debunks R+L=baby. 100% debunks the anullment nonsense of the show and backs up the Arthur=oathbreaking theory.
From GRRM himself regarding Fever Dreams: I might mention, though, that Ned's account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream... and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.
I'm interested to hear more about this though. Whatcya got?
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
No need for dreams, free folk. For upon this subject, we have a reliable narrator:
“You're Ned Stark's bastard, aren't you?"
Jon felt a coldness pass right through him. He pressed his lips together and said nothing.
"Did I offend you?“ Lannister said. "Sorry. Dwarfs don't have to be tactful. Generations of capering fools in motley have won me the right to dress badly and say any damn thing that comes into my head.“ He grinned. "You are the bastard, though."
"Lord Eddard Stark is my father,“ Jon admitted stiffly.
Lannister studied his face. "Yes,“ he said. "I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
"Half brothers," Jon corrected. He was pleased by the dwarf's comment, but he tried not to let it show.
"Let me give you some counsel, bastard," Lannister said. "Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strenghth. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you."
Jon was in no mood for anyone's counsel. "What do you know about being a bastard?"
"All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes."
"You are your mother's trueborn son of Lannister."
"Am I?“ the dwarf replied, sardonic. "Do tell my lord father. My mother died birthing me, and he's never been sure."
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Post by DarkSister1001 on Mar 28, 2019 15:47:40 GMT
Just came across this on my 998th re-read:
Ned rose and paced the length of the room. "If the queen had a role in this or, gods forbid, the king himself … no, I will not believe that." Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert's talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess. He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. AGoT, Eddard IV
Sansa's plead:
"Stop them," Sansa pleaded, "don't let them do it, please, please, it wasn't Lady, it was Nymeria, Arya did it, you can't, it wasn't Lady, don't let them hurt Lady, I'll make her be good, I promise, I promise …" She started to cry. AGoT, Eddard III
Robert Baratheon has just given a command for Lady to die. A part of Sansa that was precious to her. Comparing this to Lyanna means that Lyanna plead for Ned not to allow Robert Baratheon to kill someone that was precious to her. It's also interesting that in the same sentence Eddard remembers "Rhaegar's infant son".
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
Just decided to vote for... Arthur+Lyanna =Jon lol. I'm actually not 100% sold on it, but it's fun to think about, and lo and behold! It's the most popular one so far lmao!
Robert Baratheon has just given a command for Lady to die. A part of Sansa that was precious to her. Comparing this to Lyanna means that Lyanna plead for Ned not to allow Robert Baratheon to kill someone that was precious to her. It's also interesting that in the same sentence Eddard remembers "Rhaegar's infant son".
So its actually Rhaegar's infant daughter. R+L=D confirmed.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I wonder how many dragons there actually are in the story. Six if Morqorro has it right.
"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R'hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I wonder how many dragons there actually are in the story. Six if Morqorro has it right.
That's what I always assumed. He's seems to be the most accurate for his peeps. Unless some of them overlap. Aemon could be old and true. Even Dark considering his NW membership. Just a thought.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
I wonder how many dragons there actually are in the story. Six if Morqorro has it right.
That's what I always assumed. He's seems to be the most accurate for his peeps. Unless some of them overlap. Aemon could be old and true. Even Dark considering his NW membership. Just a thought.
Agreed its super subjective. Could be six or three. I certainly would like if the pairs are parallels of each other.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Ned rose and paced the length of the room. "If the queen had a role in this or, gods forbid, the king himself … no, I will not believe that." Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert's talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess. He remembered Rhaegar's infant son, the red ruin of his skull, and the way the king had turned away, as he had turned away in Darry's audience hall not so long ago. He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. AGoT, Eddard IV
Sansa's plead:
"Stop them," Sansa pleaded, "don't let them do it, please, please, it wasn't Lady, it was Nymeria, Arya did it, you can't, it wasn't Lady, don't let them hurt Lady, I'll make her be good, I promise, I promise …" She started to cry. AGoT, Eddard III
Robert Baratheon has just given a command for Lady to die. A part of Sansa that was precious to her. Comparing this to Lyanna means that Lyanna plead for Ned not to allow Robert Baratheon to kill someone that was precious to her. It's also interesting that in the same sentence Eddard remembers "Rhaegar's infant son".
But in the quote by Sansa we also learn that the wrong Direwolf was accused. It was not Lady. Yet Robert gave the order. To me this could mean: it was not Rhaegar who took Lyanna, and Robert still went with what he was told. This could well back Arthur and Lyanna. As for the infant boy, we have that Robert turned away. We must not forget that it was not Robert who gave the order to kill the children, it was most likely Tywin Lannister. Robert was not even in town when it happened and Ned trusted Robert still 16 years later. "Robert would never harm any of my blood", he was convinced. So that would include Lyannas son. Robert was never really a threat to the child and there might be other reasons for raising Jon as his bastard son.
But in the quote by Sansa we also learn that the wrong Direwolf was accused.
Very interesting! I'd stubbornly argue that the wrong direwolf was punished, just like Rhaegar. He didn't steal Lyanna, she broker her betrothal.
On the topic of the DWs, Arya lied to cover up the truth about Nymeria's to protect her, just like her pop did. "Even the lie was not without honor".
My belief of R+L=J goes dragonbone deep.
I've recently decided that Ned kept his sister's secret originally for the sake of the realm.
One Great House had just been all but extinguished the remaining members exiled. If the rebels or Targ supporters had known that Lyanna skipped out on her betrothal on her own accord, rather then being stolen, the war would have raged on and that would have probably been the end of the Starks and Baratheons. By the time the truth was discovered only Ned and Howland knew, the realm had finally rid itself of a tyrant, it had bled enough and it was finally entering peace. Let sleeping wolves lie.
If I did, my word would be as hollow as an empty suit of armor.
It wasn't until later than he realized how dangerous Robert's hatred and negligence would be to Jon specifically.
If the queen had a role in this or, gods forbid, the king himself … no, I will not believe that." Yet even as he said the words, he remembered that chill morning on the barrowlands, and Robert's talk of sending hired knives after the Targaryen princess
"Treachery was a coin the Targaryens knew well," Robert said. The anger was building in him again. "Lannister paid them back in kind. It was no less than they deserved. I shall not trouble my sleep over it." "You were not there," Ned said, bitterness in his voice. Troubled sleep was no stranger to him. He had lived his lies for fourteen years, yet they still haunted him at night. "There was no honor in that conquest." "The Others take your honor!" Robert swore. "What did any Targaryen ever know of honor? Go down into your crypt and ask Lyanna about the dragon's honor!"
Even Tywin's role in the RW was for the good of the realm. As much as I hate him, lives were spared bc the war was over.
That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark's arms and won you another year of war. Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner.
Before anyone yells at me, it hurts likes crabs in the belly to compare the RW to Ned. But I can't deny the connection.
IMO Varys is telling Ned bc the Master of Whispers hopes that Ned will understand considering that Ned has lied to keep the peace before.
Varys smiled thinly. "Why, the realm, my good lord, how ever could you doubt that? I swear it by my lost manhood. I serve the realm, and the realm needs peace."
That was the most dangerous part, Ned knew. "All justice flows from the king," he told her. "When I know the truth, I must go to Robert." And pray that he is the man I think he is, he finished silently, and not the man I fear he has become.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.