Post by markg171 on Oct 18, 2015 3:12:02 GMT
Oct 17, 2015 17:11:36 GMT @prettypig said:
Once you've come up with an interesting question, then you look for supporting evidence. So far we have an interesting question, but I see no supporting evidence being given for it.
High Valyrian is not taught only by Maesters. Missandei speaks it. Some random Tyroshi singer in KL sings songs in it. The Windblown use it as their company tongue. While the free cities talk a bastard Valyrian which as you say parallels the development of Romance languages, the Valyrian spoken in Slaver's bay is still a Ghiscari-coloured version of High Valyrian. Arya speaks some High Valyrian, and she's told by the Kindly Man that she needs to improve it, presumably not at the knees of a Maester.
Ok, to clarify - no Westerosi speaks it, who has not been taught it by a maester. And yes, Missandei speaks it - because she was taught by the Good Masters of Astapor, who as you note speak a Ghiscarified High Valyrian of their conquerors. The Windblown use it as a company tongue because it's the "root" of all the bastard Valyrian dialects coming into the company in the first place - and it's what the Tattered Prince (a former noble of Valyrian origin) speaks as their commander. So yeah, I think it stands to reason that when in Rome, etc. The Tyroshi bard sings his song in High Valyrian because he's Tyroshi and Tyrosh of all the Free Cities has the dialect that is closest to the original High Valyrian. Arya is learning High Valyrian in the HoBaW, and those in the R'hllorist sect also speak it. Rippounet pointed out that High Valyrian is for nobility, maesters, certain religious orders, and "other" exclusive societies such as Faceless Men. We don't see this being spoken by random sellswords or ship captains or landed knights that have 'picked it up'in the course of travel.
I'm not sure where the idea that Dany speaks Valyrian with a Tyroshi accent comes from? She speaks the low Valyrian of Tyrosh, unsurprising as she lived there for some time, but that says nothing of her High Valyrian. Nor does it exclude the possibility she talks Braavosi too, though given that's pretty early in AGoT and we know that GRRM originally had Dany and her lemon trees in Tyrosh rather than Braavos, that might be a remnant of the earlier version. Am I missing something?
Final point, Dany has spent a lot of her childhood amongst the rich and wealthy. Darry's household had many servants. Dany and Viserys lived for years after that in the homes of "magisters and archons and merchant princes". Why would it have to be Darry personally teaching Dany, rather than some scholar he hired to do the job, or someone in those later homes of the wealthy?
They had wandered since then, from Braavos to Myr, from Myr to Tyrosh, and on to Qohor and Volantis and Lys, never staying long in any one place. Her brother would not allow it.
At first the magisters and archons and merchant princes were pleased to welcome the last Targaryens to their homes and tables, but as the years passed and the Usurper continued to sit upon the Iron Throne, doors closed and their lives grew meaner.
On that note, I did run across this in AGOT Chapter 11:
There was no one to talk to. Khal Drogo shouted commands and jests down to his bloodriders, and laughed at their replies, but he scarcely glanced at Dany beside him. They had no common language. Dothraki was incomprehensible to her, and the khal knew only a few words of the bastard Valyrian of the Free Cities, and none at all of the Common Tongue of the Seven Kingdoms.
Also interesting is that through the rest of Dany's AGOT chapters, she and Viserys only speak to each other in the Common Tongue - even in their private conversations around the Dothraki, who have already been established as having little to no Valyrian. In fact, Dany isn't exposed to Valryian (any form) until she visits the Western Market after Viserys dies.
"Would you care to visit the Western Market?"
Dany stirred. "Yes," she said. "I would like that." The markets came alive when a caravan had come in. You could never tell what treasures the traders might bring this time, and it would be good to hear men speaking Valyrian again, as they did in the Free Cities.
Dany stirred. "Yes," she said. "I would like that." The markets came alive when a caravan had come in. You could never tell what treasures the traders might bring this time, and it would be good to hear men speaking Valyrian again, as they did in the Free Cities.
Dany smiled. "My son has his name, but I will try your summerwine," she said in Valyrian, Valyrian as they spoke it in the Free Cities. The words felt strange on her tongue, after so long.
Because he doesn't speak it. My guess is that he, like most other Westerosi nobles, can only marginally read it.
You know who probably would speak it? Someone who spent their developing years in Tyrosh, where they speak a very close version of true High Valyrian.
Also of note, during her acquisition of the Unsullied in Astapor, Dany understands the Ghiscari High Valyrian (and the other dialects of Slaver's Bay) "well enough", but Barristan, who does speak some Valyrian, needs Missandei to translate.
Interesting observation about Barristan, considering that Barristan was the heir to a lordship (and therefore would have had the best education available) before he joined the KG, and then spent the rest of his life serving some of the only Valyrians in Westoros