Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM?

markg171
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? Apr 29, 2017 21:58:00 GMT voice, DarkSister1001, and 1 more like this

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Post by markg171 on Apr 29, 2017 21:58:00 GMT

Apr 29, 2017 11:55:02 GMT haloid said:

Darksister asked a really good question about that Starks and the Daynes being related. Supposedly GRRM has a family tree for the Daynes that he hasn't released yet and he's promised us more information in future books about the Daynes. It also begs the question if the Starks and Daynes have intermarried before.

This question could be tricky though. Off the top of my head

- GRRM could say yes because all houses are related if you go back far enough as they all basically descend from Garth Greenhand. House Stark at least does, and I'm sure the Daynes or their Dornish ancestor probably do too. Which isn't quite what I think we're looking for.
- GRRM could say yes, but not how recently. Again, could be Garth Greenhand thousands of years ago, or could be something closer.
- They could be related, but the offspring of them all died and there's no one left, leaving them just with a distant common ancestor, but no actual real blood ties
- They can't be officially related within the last 300 years since we have House Stark's family tree and no Dayne is on it. But there could be some Stark/Dayne bastards that didn't make the list, had the mother wrong (Jon), or were mislabeled entirely (Jon being Eddard's son). So GRRM could say no even though he knows there's a Stark or Dayne who is related but unofficially so.

It's a question you'd need to narrow down to what you're really trying to get at (depending on what that is). Maybe such as

- Have a Dayne and Stark ever had sex/had a child?
- Have there recently (possibly last 300 years maybe?) been relations between a Dayne and Stark?
- If House Stark descends from Brandon of the Bloody Blade, a son of Garth Greenhand, does House Dayne have a similar connection to a son of Garth Greenhand? Or to Brandon?
- House Dayne claims to be 10,000 years old according to Darkstar. House Stark claims to be 8,000 years old. If Dayne came before Stark, then does Stark descend from Dayne? Or is it possible the reverse is true, that Dayne descends from Stark?

But you'd have to ask DarkSister1001 which she is really trying to get answered as to me "Are the Starks and Daynes related" is a broad question Martin could spin many ways like the slimy bastard he is.

Side note, but I'm surprised that voice isn't trying to ask Martin why Dawn has remained unclaimed for the last 17 years, especially when Darkstar is a knight of Starfall, which is our only known criteria for it, and should therefore be able to wield Dawn (according to what we know). I know his personal opinion would probably be because it's for Jon, who's been conveniently alive that same length of time, but why not try and get an answer from him? That seems the question I'd have thought you most interested in.

Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!

arrysfleas
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? Apr 29, 2017 22:19:46 GMT voice and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by arrysfleas on Apr 29, 2017 22:19:46 GMT

Apr 29, 2017 21:58:00 GMT markg171 said:

GRRM could say yes because all houses are related if you go back far enough as they all basically descend from Garth Greenhand. House Stark at least does, and I'm sure the Daynes or their Dornish ancestor probably do too. Which isn't quite what I think we're looking for.

it is a very good question indeed and without preempting what darksister had in mind, to me it relates to the Long Night and the LN v2.

Assuming that the Starks do descend from the FM of Garth the Green's ilk and the Daynes are of valyrian ancestry, somehow a Stark and a Dayne got involved in close quarters at the time of the LN, the battle for the Dawn and soon after.

And again recently at the ToJ.

But what is this back story that links them at the time of the LN? I guess that will not be answered unless by 'wait for the next book...".
Unless perhaps one asks if the sword Dawn was involved in the battle for the Dawn? and who wielded it?

"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? Apr 30, 2017 2:09:44 GMT DarkSister1001 likes this

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Post by voice on Apr 30, 2017 2:09:44 GMT

Apr 30, 2017 1:18:12 GMT markg171 said:

Side note, but I'm surprised that voice isn't trying to ask Martin why Dawn has remained unclaimed for the last 17 years, especially when Darkstar is a knight of Starfall, which is our only known criteria for it, and should therefore be able to wield Dawn (according to what we know). I know his personal opinion would probably be because it's for Jon, who's been conveniently alive that same length of time, but why not try and get an answer from him? That seems the question I'd have thought you most interested in.

It's because I'm a man of the people, Mark.

I'd love to ask that but I think he's already made himself clear on the subject. Dawn is awaiting the next SotM. It just so happens that there has not been a knight of Starfall worthy of Dawn these past 17 years.

I think it would be awesome if GRRM let Jon Snow die, mytery in tact (he's just Ned's bastard from some unnamed woman), and had a random character like Edric Dayne end up being some kind of hero in the events of LN 2.0. I doubt he is quite that bold, but it would be really cool.

The question that nags at me the most is the identity of the Three Shadows at the Trident. And the only reason why I want to ask him about that is because I'm sure I'm right and that every naysayer in my old thread is wrong. I want an official greenlight for a victory lap.

But, that is a very selfish question, and an extremely petty reason to ask it. I would enjoy the asking/answering/saying "I told you so"/etc, but it doesn't offer anything substantive to the community. So I'll ask whatever you guys think I should.

The questions you guys have raised are far more interesting, even to me, than my Trident thing. Not to sound big-headed, but I'm pretty confident in my Dawn theories too. Dawn=Ice is so obvious it isn't even a theory anymore! LOL

And if Dawn=Ice, and has not been wielded since the year of Jon's birth, then I can't help but wonder if the 17 year-parallel isn't something more than happenstance.

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markg171
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? Apr 30, 2017 3:23:38 GMT voice and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by markg171 on Apr 30, 2017 3:23:38 GMT

Apr 30, 2017 2:18:06 GMT voice said:

Not to sound big-headed, but I'm pretty confident in my Dawn theories too

Well in my opinion that's a mistake. I know you're doing something else here by asking people to submit a question so it isn't really possible, but if I had the chance to have GRRM confirm or deny something I theorized about, I'd want him to do it rather than just assuming I'm already right. Taking things for a given is a huge problem in the ASOIAF community. We're all still theorizing, but he can tell us whether a critical aspect of our theories are right or completely off base. Don't just assume things.

Hence for instance one of the questions I submitted was whether or not Lyanna was a virgin before Rhaegar kidnapped her, and whether she was a virgin when Ned found her if she was prior. Everyone just takes it for a given she had sex at some point in her life, and especially after she was taken. Because they think she had a child which is one of the characters in our story, which needed to be born in a certain time. Yet if GRRM told you Lyanna was a virgin when she died then that would kill things pretty dead in the water.

Instead of asking the most basic questions a lot of people just ask everything that comes from the assumption they've already made. Why not ask if the assumption is first correct and then build off of a known quantity when it's confirmed or denied? It might not be as exciting of a question, but like I mean if Lyanna's been a virgin this whole time a lot of people are going to look really dumb, and GRRM's been having a laugh every time someone asks him a question that assumes she's ever had sex, let alone been pregnant. And that's just one example of building a theory off of an assumption and then continuously theorizing for literally decades without knowing this basic thing.

Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!

voice
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? Apr 30, 2017 8:11:35 GMT via Tapatalk DarkSister1001 and haloid like this

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Post by voice on Apr 30, 2017 8:11:35 GMT

Apr 30, 2017 3:23:38 GMT markg171 said:

Apr 30, 2017 2:18:06 GMT voice said:

Not to sound big-headed, but I'm pretty confident in my Dawn theories too

Well in my opinion that's a mistake. I know you're doing something else here by asking people to submit a question so it isn't really possible, but if I had the chance to have GRRM confirm or deny something I theorized about, I'd want him to do it rather than just assuming I'm already right. Taking things for a given is a huge problem in the ASOIAF community. We're all still theorizing, but he can tell us whether a critical aspect of our theories are right or completely off base. Don't just assume things.

Hence for instance one of the questions I submitted was whether or not Lyanna was a virgin before Rhaegar kidnapped her, and whether she was a virgin when Ned found her if she was prior. Everyone just takes it for a given she had sex at some point in her life, and especially after she was taken. Because they think she had a child which is one of the characters in our story, which needed to be born in a certain time. Yet if GRRM told you Lyanna was a virgin when she died then that would kill things pretty dead in the water.

Instead of asking the most basic questions a lot of people just ask everything that comes from the assumption they've already made. Why not ask if the assumption is first correct and then build off of a known quantity when it's confirmed or denied? It might not be as exciting of a question, but like I mean if Lyanna's been a virgin this whole time a lot of people are going to look really dumb, and GRRM's been having a laugh every time someone asks him a question that assumes she's ever had sex, let alone been pregnant. And that's just one example of building a theory off of an assumption and then continuously theorizing for literally decades without knowing this basic thing.

Well of course.

I was poking fun at my own certainty by way of Linda's "it's not even a theory anymore" line re RLJ.

Once you're certain of anything that is not directly witnessed in ASOIAF, you're fucked. Everything is so tenuous, circumstantial, and subjective that you have a greater chance of falling into a trap than you have of actually being right.

I don't care if I'm right or wrong about any of my theories, so it's easy for me to propose a vote rather than ask my own question regarding one of them. Part of me would rather not have confirmation until the series is completed (assuming that happens one day).

The 3 shadows at the Trident, though... those have special relevance for me. If I were going to ask a question purely for my own benefit, that would be the one.

I've long felt that the Citadel has led people in the wrong direction regarding their identities. Each is present at the Trident/House Darry when Bran sees them. And if I'm right about that interp, it has interesting implications for the rest of Bran's coma vision. Barristan's "beauty" to a seven year old Bran and Ilyn's bloody past, for instance, would make other pieces of the mosaic fit snugly into place.

Tis a small, unimportant detail to most people, but it's one that has stood out to me since my first read.

"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."

arrysfleas
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 1, 2017 0:23:08 GMT Mojo, voice, and 2 more like this

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Post by arrysfleas on May 1, 2017 0:23:08 GMT

May 1, 2017 0:07:30 GMT voice said:

Tis a small, unimportant detail to most people, but it's one that has stood out to me since my first read.

i feel the same about Jon not mentioning Bran in the royal procession. Is it a case of Bran the Forgotten, as in GRRM and his proof readers stuffed up, or is it a case of Bran the Missing as he just was not there and GRRM is sending, very early on, a definite message of some kind. Which in my opinion would have to do with Bran the Weirwood influencing his past. As seen in other fiction novels.

"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 1, 2017 0:53:53 GMT voice and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by Mojo on May 1, 2017 0:53:53 GMT

May 1, 2017 0:23:08 GMT arrysfleas said:

May 1, 2017 0:07:30 GMT voice said:

Tis a small, unimportant detail to most people, but it's one that has stood out to me since my first read.

i feel the same about Jon not mentioning Bran in the royal procession. Is it a case of Bran the Forgotten, as in GRRM and his proof readers stuffed up, or is it a case of Bran the Missing as he just was not there and GRRM is sending, very early on, a definite message of some kind. Which in my opinion would have to do with Bran the Weirwood influencing his past. As seen in other fiction novels.

If I ever feel like reading again, I'll go with 1000 worlds because I'm becoming more and more convinced by Maester Sam voice and prestonjacobs that ASOIAF will end the same way.

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 1, 2017 0:59:01 GMT Mojo, Maester Sam, and 1 more like this

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Post by voice on May 1, 2017 0:59:01 GMT

May 1, 2017 0:53:03 GMT Mojo said:

If I ever feel like reading again, I'll go with 1000 worlds because I'm becoming more and more convinced by Maester Sam voice and prestonjacobs that ASOIAF will end the same way.

Best part about the 1000 Worlds, is that they are a bunch of short stories, and most have audiobooks. They ooze with ASOIAF story arcs, and are great for short attention spans.

And, each short story has a unique ending!

BTW, Maester Sam , prestonjacobs says that it appears that Warship is a part of the 1000 Worlds universe as well! I haven't read that one yet, unless I've fogotten it, so I can't say if I agree. PJ must have found a reliable reference though, because he's been hesitant to add Laren Dorr even though it contains direct references to Bakkalon.

Last Edit: May 1, 2017 1:00:13 GMT by voice

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 2, 2017 1:51:38 GMT Mojo and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by voice on May 2, 2017 1:51:38 GMT

Thus far it looks like

Are the Starks and Daynes related?

&

What made Stannis pick the Nightfort as his new residence, beyond knowledge of the black gate?

are tied in this poll!

"Are the Starks and Daynes related?" is still winning the first poll too, so it has the edge.

Don't forget to vote folks!

Poll Winner will have their question asked first, but if GRRM allows me, I will be asking everyone's questions that have been submitted.

I'll post notes, recordings, and hopefully, video.

"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."

arrysfleas
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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 2, 2017 3:09:01 GMT voice, Wraith, and 1 more like this

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Post by arrysfleas on May 2, 2017 3:09:01 GMT

May 2, 2017 2:03:09 GMT voice said:

Poll Winner will have their question asked first, but if GRRM allows me, I will be asking everyone's questions that have been submitted.

I'll post notes, recordings, and hopefully, video.

whatever you do, don't forget the lemon cakes!

"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 2, 2017 3:26:25 GMT voice, DarkSister1001, and 1 more like this

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Post by Wraith on May 2, 2017 3:26:25 GMT

May 2, 2017 3:09:01 GMT arrysfleas said:

May 2, 2017 2:03:09 GMT voice said:

Poll Winner will have their question asked first, but if GRRM allows me, I will be asking everyone's questions that have been submitted.

I'll post notes, recordings, and hopefully, video.

whatever you do, don't forget the lemon cakes!

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 2, 2017 16:40:19 GMT voice, Wraith, and 1 more like this

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Post by DarkSister1001 on May 2, 2017 16:40:19 GMT

May 2, 2017 5:09:40 GMT markg171 said:

But you'd have to ask DarkSister1001 which she is really trying to get answered as to me "Are the Starks and Daynes related" is a broad question Martin could spin many ways like the slimy bastard he is.

Good thinking. How about this...
House Stark and House Dayne are both descendant from the First Men. Aside from that is there any blood relation between the two houses?
IMO this gives us a LOT of info. It could tell us if Jon could possibly be the SotM (can you tell I buy SlyWren 's theory heart and soul? LOL) It could be who his parents are. What happened between Ashara and Ned, if anything? It could lend credence to the wonderful Dawn = Original Ice theory (which I also buy into, heart and soul). It could mean that one is a cadet branch of the other. There's a ton of stuff between these two houses. I mean, c'mon George! WinterFELL and StarFALL?! Throw me a fricking bone here!

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 2, 2017 19:14:48 GMT Wraith and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by voice on May 2, 2017 19:14:48 GMT

May 2, 2017 17:39:22 GMT DarkSister1001 said:

I mean, c'mon George! WinterFELL and StarFALL?! Throw me a fricking bone here!

Word.

Winter Stars, blue as the eyes of death (aka, the rider in the Ice Dragon constelleation, a King of Winter if here ever was one)... and a unique sword of milkglass, alive with light, forged when the Winter Stars Fall/Fell (aka, Dawn).

"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 8, 2017 10:38:46 GMT voice and DarkSister1001 like this

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Post by SerTarod on May 8, 2017 10:38:46 GMT

As a matter of interest for any future opportunities, reading through some of the threads pertaining to Lyanna, there was comment about Lyanna and the mother dire wolf, so....

dear georgie, is Lyanna alive in some form in which she could exert an influence?

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM? May 8, 2017 11:46:15 GMT voice likes this

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Post by silentmajority on May 8, 2017 11:46:15 GMT

My thought is that GRRM has heard almost every question and theory, and already has an entire repertoire of stock answers to anything that you ask. GRRM is not going to answer any question that he doesn’t want to, so the question that you really need to ask is how do you get GRRM to quit giving his stock answers?

I would suggest, if you have the time, to go back and read other Q&A’a and see what his answers were. Theres a possibilities that old answers give hints towards future book, and will give you an ability for followup questions. Otherwise, try and get 3 or 4 people together and put together a series of questions that will push George past his stock answers. If that all fails there’s always the nerd riot...

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Round 2: What should @voice ask GRRM?

Post by markg171 on Apr 29, 2017 21:58:00 GMT

Post by arrysfleas on Apr 29, 2017 22:19:46 GMT

Post by voice on Apr 30, 2017 2:09:44 GMT

Post by markg171 on Apr 30, 2017 3:23:38 GMT

Post by voice on Apr 30, 2017 8:11:35 GMT

Post by arrysfleas on May 1, 2017 0:23:08 GMT

Post by Mojo on May 1, 2017 0:53:53 GMT

Post by voice on May 1, 2017 0:59:01 GMT

Post by voice on May 2, 2017 1:51:38 GMT

Post by arrysfleas on May 2, 2017 3:09:01 GMT

Post by Wraith on May 2, 2017 3:26:25 GMT

Post by DarkSister1001 on May 2, 2017 16:40:19 GMT

Post by voice on May 2, 2017 19:14:48 GMT

Post by SerTarod on May 8, 2017 10:38:46 GMT

Post by silentmajority on May 8, 2017 11:46:15 GMT