Post by shymaid on Sept 25, 2017 11:05:54 GMT
This is an interesting one!
I'll start with the introduction of RLJ.
We have already learned that Jon is Ned's bastard and that Rhaegar died for the woman he loved by the Usurper's hand at the Trident. Here we get more meat on the story.
While we still haven't been given any reason for doubting Jon as Ned's bastard (even if some do from the start), the narrative of Robert and Rhaegar fighting over the same (child-)woman and her dying at only 16 is put into action. The dicotmy being if Rhaegar loved her or stole her.
We also get hints that Robert might not have known her that well. His view of where she belongs and what she deserves differs from that of her brother Ned.
This waters the seed of doubt of what really happened.
Still, just paragraphs above, we also hear that the Mad King had Ned's brother killed while their father watched. At once we get that the story is more complicated than a war fought over a (child-)woman's love.
And I want to include Lyanna's death here as well, just to have it "on record" here.
Her death is connected with blood and fever (yes, and roses in Ned's mind). The fever could point to a wide variety of illnesses and the like, but the blood widens the possibility to include something violent and birth.
Trying to look at this with unsullied eyes, I'd say this could lend a thought to a violent death that justifies Robert's anger at Rheagar. But Ned's lack of emotion would be curious is Rhaegar was directly involved.
Other passages that makes me go hmmm:
So who is hiding under that Snow? Always loved that one!
We haven't got the Stark face mentioned as long yet, but Rikard certainly had it. And the quiet dignity is interesting!
That one really made me go hmmmm! That can go so many ways!
What's the connection between Tywin, a child and a personal wound for Ned? I don't think Rhaegar's dead children is the answer here.
Is there a parallell to RR here? It does remind me of Cersei accusing Ned of stealing Ashara's child. And one of the most popular points in RLJ is that Ned is sworn to protect Lyanna's child. But even as a non-RLJer I do see a possibility of Ned being sworn to protect someone/a child. I'm just not sure of who/why/from whom yet. At least I'm not ruling it out.
It's interesting how fast they go from talking of killing Rhaegar again and again, to Ned asking of Jon. Of course he's talking of Jon Arryn, but as reader it's easy to think of Jon Snow here. As a narrative device it could be a pointer to the mystery of Jon's mother.
"There was nothing Ned could say to that" tickles my mind!
That's it for now! I'll probably go over it more times and sort out my thoughts in the coming days.
I'll start with the introduction of RLJ.
We have already learned that Jon is Ned's bastard and that Rhaegar died for the woman he loved by the Usurper's hand at the Trident. Here we get more meat on the story.
Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride.
The king touched her cheek, his fingers brushing across the rough stone as gently as if it were living flesh. "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her."
"You did," Ned reminded him.
"Only once," Robert said bitterly.
"You did," Ned reminded him.
"Only once," Robert said bitterly.
While we still haven't been given any reason for doubting Jon as Ned's bastard (even if some do from the start), the narrative of Robert and Rhaegar fighting over the same (child-)woman and her dying at only 16 is put into action. The dicotmy being if Rhaegar loved her or stole her.
We also get hints that Robert might not have known her that well. His view of where she belongs and what she deserves differs from that of her brother Ned.
"She was more beautiful than that," the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna's face, as if he could will her back to life. Finally he rose, made awkward by his weight. "Ah, damn it, Ned, did you have to bury her in a place like this?" His voice was hoarse with remembered grief. "She deserved more than darkness …"
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father."
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father."
This waters the seed of doubt of what really happened.
Still, just paragraphs above, we also hear that the Mad King had Ned's brother killed while their father watched. At once we get that the story is more complicated than a war fought over a (child-)woman's love.
And I want to include Lyanna's death here as well, just to have it "on record" here.
"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."
Her death is connected with blood and fever (yes, and roses in Ned's mind). The fever could point to a wide variety of illnesses and the like, but the blood widens the possibility to include something violent and birth.
Trying to look at this with unsullied eyes, I'd say this could lend a thought to a violent death that justifies Robert's anger at Rheagar. But Ned's lack of emotion would be curious is Rhaegar was directly involved.
Other passages that makes me go hmmm:
"Likely they were too shy to come out," Ned jested. He could feel the chill coming up the stairs, a cold breath from deep within the earth. "Kings are a rare sight in the north."
Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!" The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended.
Robert snorted. "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!" The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended.
So who is hiding under that Snow? Always loved that one!
There were three tombs, side by side. Lord Rickard Stark, Ned's father, had a long, stern face. The stonemason had known him well. He sat with quiet dignity, stone fingers holding tight to the sword across his lap, but in life all swords had failed him. In two smaller sepulchres on either side were his children.
We haven't got the Stark face mentioned as long yet, but Rikard certainly had it. And the quiet dignity is interesting!
Brandon had been twenty when he died, strangled by order of the Mad King Aerys Targaryen only a few short days before he was to wed Catelyn Tully of Riverrun. His father had been forced to watch him die. He was the true heir, the eldest, born to rule.
That one really made me go hmmmm! That can go so many ways!
Ned would sooner entrust a child to a pit viper than to Lord Tywin, but he left his doubts unspoken. Some old wounds never truly heal, and bleed again at the slightest word. "The wife has lost the husband," he said carefully. "Perhaps the mother feared to lose the son. The boy is very young."
What's the connection between Tywin, a child and a personal wound for Ned? I don't think Rhaegar's dead children is the answer here.
"The boy is my namesake, did you know that? Robert Arryn. I am sworn to protect him. How can I do that if his mother steals him away?"
Is there a parallell to RR here? It does remind me of Cersei accusing Ned of stealing Ashara's child. And one of the most popular points in RLJ is that Ned is sworn to protect Lyanna's child. But even as a non-RLJer I do see a possibility of Ned being sworn to protect someone/a child. I'm just not sure of who/why/from whom yet. At least I'm not ruling it out.
"In my dreams, I kill him every night," Robert admitted. "A thousand deaths will still be less than he deserves."
There was nothing Ned could say to that. After a quiet, he said, "We should return, Your Grace. Your wife will be waiting."
"The Others take my wife," Robert muttered sourly, but he started back the way they had come, his footsteps falling heavily. "And if I hear 'Your Grace' once more, I'll have your head on a spike. We are more to each other than that."
"I had not forgotten," Ned replied quietly. When the king did not answer, he said, "Tell me about Jon."
There was nothing Ned could say to that. After a quiet, he said, "We should return, Your Grace. Your wife will be waiting."
"The Others take my wife," Robert muttered sourly, but he started back the way they had come, his footsteps falling heavily. "And if I hear 'Your Grace' once more, I'll have your head on a spike. We are more to each other than that."
"I had not forgotten," Ned replied quietly. When the king did not answer, he said, "Tell me about Jon."
It's interesting how fast they go from talking of killing Rhaegar again and again, to Ned asking of Jon. Of course he's talking of Jon Arryn, but as reader it's easy to think of Jon Snow here. As a narrative device it could be a pointer to the mystery of Jon's mother.
"There was nothing Ned could say to that" tickles my mind!
That's it for now! I'll probably go over it more times and sort out my thoughts in the coming days.