Post by shymaid on Jun 9, 2018 9:54:53 GMT
This chapter isn't a long one, and it's split in two parts. I'll keep it to parentage as best as I can.
The first part is the council meeting where Dany's pregnancy is discussed. Robert wants her and the child dead, and Viserys for good measure. I won't include all the quotes here, as in that case I might as well make one long quote of half the chapter.
Ned strongly opposes this and calls it murder of children, and refuses to set his seal to an order for that; Robert is absolutely furious - and not used to defiance, interestingly enough - and Ned ends up resigning as Hand while Robert threatens to put his head on a stake.
Many questions why Ned goes to such lengths, including noting that he was overstepping the line, to protect Dany. Is it her specifically, or children in general? If it is Dany he wants to protect, had he done so before? These questions goes back to his movements at the end of the rebellion, which we have little details on. Personally I don't have a strong oppinion on the matter right now, but i do lean to Ned giving assistance to keep Dany safe all those years ago. And this might tie into her parentage.
As Arryn was the one who stopped Robert taking the Targaryen siblings out these past 15 years, I wonder if he also had a hand in the pie with them getting away in the first place. If some of that was tied to Dorne, one wonders what was on the table when Arryn negotiated with them after Robert took the throne. If so, did he too know her real parentage?
That was all I could find on parentage in the first half, so here comes the second part!
Suddenly, uncomfortably, he found himself recalling Rhaegar Targaryen. Fifteen years dead, yet Robert hates him as much as ever. It was a disturbing notion …
A popular one in the RLJ community as far as I've seen, often used as proof for the need to keep Jon, the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, hidden for his safety. And it is a valid argument, I have to say.
Do I agree? No, I read it in a very different way.
Ned argues several times that the murder of children is beneath Robert, and even thinks that the man he knew and put on the throne wouldn't order the murder of women and children. That this is a side of Robert he doesn't recognize and what Catelyn warned him about. So how could he fear Robert would kill Jon if he was a "dragonspawn"? They did fight after the bodies of Rhaenys and Aegon was placed at Robert's feet, but is that the same as ordering their killing himself? While I can see this fear being in Ned when he rode off to finish the war, but wouldn't this remind him of that time now? I just don't see Ned basically thinking "The Robert I knew would never do that" if that truly was the case, as the situation and danger would be so similar.
Also he makes the point that a son of Dany would only be a threat if he lived past childhood and got his Dothraki to cross the sea. Well, Jon lived and would be a bigger threat if a scenario like this would come to pass. How could he be so sure the truth would not surface? And he clearly didn't have any plans on sending Jon to the Wall to eliminate that risk. Would he be so unconcerned if Jon really was of Targaryen blood? I don't think so...
When he had gone, Eddard Stark went to the window and sat brooding. Robert had left him no choice that he could see. He ought to thank him. It would be good to return to Winterfell. He ought never have left. His sons were waiting there. Perhaps he and Catelyn would make a new son together when he returned, they were not so old yet. And of late he had often found himself dreaming of snow, of the deep quiet of the wolfswood at night.
"His sons were waiting there"? Seems to me one bastard son is no longer at Winterfell... Does this mean Ned doesn't see Jon as his son, or is it a misdirection?
After musing on another son as he and Cat is not to old, his thoughts goes to dreams of snow and a quiet wolfswood. Takes my mind to a Snow and a quiet Wolf by his side, but that could be my own assosiations only. Also it's interesting he's dreaming about cold and night, and it makes me wonder if it's just daydreams or sleeping dreams. I lean to daydreams, but sleeping dreams is way more fun to speculate on! So just for the fun of it: is he skinchanging or not?
After he thinks of the possibility of taking a ship - which is interesting in it self, considering he took a ship to call his banners for rebellion - his mind goes back to Stannis, why he left and isolates himself at Dragonstone, and so the parentage mystery we have there. And then we get this little tidbit:
And when you have it, what then? Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust.
This is easy to connect to Jon and his identity, and it might be the case that it would be too dangerous to reveal his mother (and father) to anyone. Question is why.
If Jon is a non-incestious bastard, we really only have two options: he's the son of Rhaegar Targaryen or Robert Baratheon. Any other father wouldn't pose a threat imo. As said, in the context of this chapter I see much pointing against Rhaegar being the father, but I'm still not ruling it out entirely when considering the post-rebellion situation. With Robert as the father, Cersei could pose a threat as Robert would probably legitimate him if he was the son of him and Lyanna. On the other hand, I think he'd do that imediately and so perhaps the marriage to her would not be considered. It was Arryn who suggested it, and knowing Tywin's reputation would he put Robert's son in such a danger? I'm not convinced of that...
If Jon is an incest baby, that alone would put him in danger no matter who fathered him. If Ned was revealed as the father, he too might very well be in danger. Not only for incest, but for shagging Robert's beloved Lyanna! So that would definitely be a reason for keeping it secret.
The third option is a danger closer to home. If Jon was the LEGAL son of Ned and Ashara, he would come before Robb in line for Winterfell. And Catelyn would non like that one bit! Neither would Hoster for that matter. Speculating even more, if Ashara is still alive and that comes to light, his marriage to Catelyn would be invalid and all their children would be bastards. Another thing she wouldn't stand for.
Which scenario is most likely, I haven't decided on yet for myself. But it's a messy story for sure!
Lastly we get this from Littlefinger:
"None … but if perchance you're still here come evenfall, I'd be pleased to take you to this brothel your man Jory has been searching for so ineffectually." Littlefinger smiled. "And I won't even tell the Lady Catelyn."
This brothel is tied to Robert's youngest barstard and the question of all the bastards tied to him and Cersei. The other interesting part is about not telling Catelyn, as I think that would point to Jon. Has Littlefinger found Jon's mother? I have suspected that several times, not being convinced in either direction. But this could be a clue to that. Or that his mother was a wench or right out prostitiute (Wylla) , or another mother who hid in a brothel like Catelyn did for a time. I really haven't given the possiblity much thought yet, so I'll just put it here as I don't have more discussion to add to it.