Welp other than the link to the thread I added ever comment should have been from this thread. The internet works in mysterious ways sometimes. Search functions are a weird thing but I figured out how to just look for things I posted whiched helped narrow it down.
Perhaps Brynden reached out through his weirnet and messed with your post!
Also I have started listening to HP again but Stephen Fry is doing the voices and its incredible. Especially his voice for Malfoy.
Good, eh? I might give it a listen. I found I enjoy listening to the audio versions while I work. Roy Dotrice was awesome for these books. Too bad GRRM didn't consider Roy's mortality when writing the final books. Dick. It'll be weird to hear them in another voice.
I could have swore they used weirwood arrows as well as the bows at least when he killed Daemon. I will need to recheck it. Also the visual of black and white arrows sounds epic, basically a long range way to say the Old Gods send their regards.
This must be in the Dunk and Egg books. I need to stop being so lazy and read those stories.
Welp other than the link to the thread I added ever comment should have been from this thread. The internet works in mysterious ways sometimes. Search functions are a weird thing but I figured out how to just look for things I posted whiched helped narrow it down.
Perhaps Brynden reached out through his weirnet and messed with your post!
Haha! I think this is absolutely possible as far as theories go!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Good, eh? I might give it a listen. I found I enjoy listening to the audio versions while I work. Roy Dotrice was awesome for these books. Too bad GRRM didn't consider Roy's mortality when writing the final books. Dick. It'll be weird to hear them in another voice.
No HP for me, but i have had The Rogue Prince (sigh), TPatQ (double-sigh! Iain Glenn can read for me ANY time he wants!), and the D&E tales playing the last few weeks. The last three read by Harry Lloyd is first on my wish list now, as I've only heard the older ones on YT. I don't have any particular relationship to Dotrice's reading, but agree that it's too bad he couldn't finish the books...
Yup. IIRC she led Arya where she could overhear Varys and the Fat Man.
Actually, the cat ran away before Arya fled Myrcella, Tommen, their septa and guards. So she found the dragon skull room and the way from there all by herself.
Hahaha! I think it was a quail, but it is nice to think of Rhaenys getting some revenge! This idea hurt's my "rhaenys is alive" tinfoil, however!
Alas, there is an SSM on the little girl, that is quite clear...
Elia’s Children
I was wondering if you could answer (or take the "fifth") one teeny little question I've been dying to ask for the past year: Are Aegon and Rhaenys, Elia's children, well and truly dead?
All I have to say is that there is absolutely no doubt that little Princess Rhaenys was dragged from beneath her father's bed and slain.
I could have swore they used weirwood arrows as well as the bows at least when he killed Daemon. I will need to recheck it. Also the visual of black and white arrows sounds epic, basically a long range way to say the Old Gods send their regards.
Well, Ser Eustace seems to think they were:
And there was his mortal error, for the Raven's Teeth had gained the top of Weeping Ridge, and Bloodraven saw his half brother's royal standard three hundred yards away, and Daemon and his sons beneath it. He slew Aegon first, the elder of the twins, for he knew that Daemon would never leave the boy whilst warmth lingered in his body, though white shafts fell like rain. Nor did he, though seven arrows pierced him, driven as much by sorcery as by Bloodraven's bow. Young Aemon took up Blackfyre when the blade slipped from his dying father's fingers, so Bloodraven slew him, too, the younger of the twins. Thus perished the black dragon and his sons.
The Sworn Sword
But tales grow in the telling, it is known... So, hard to say.
Sidenote: this and the use of weirwood for interiour (Harrenhal and Whitewalls for example) makes me wonder how rare weirwoods really are in the south. Could be they are more common that we are led to believe.
From the point of him reaching Mance, I don't think he's bothered by the burns themselves at all. After that is more reflex and the awareness of having a healed injury I think.
I am not sure the flexing is related to his burns at all. Oh, the conscious exercising of his muscles when he thinks of it as exercise is related to Aemon's teaching, but not the other times. I think that is purely unconscious and related to some other instinct in Jon.
You're right to think it's not about the muscles. It's about the tendons, which must be flexed and flexed and flexed again to avoid getting a hand turned into a useless claw. At least, that's how it is in RL.
on a side note-I can't help seeing a disquieting mirroring to Victarion's hand here. What do you think?
Burns are terrible killers. An infected burn can be dreadful And deep burns at the very best, are cripplers. Jon was lucky to be alive, IMO!
While burns are dangerous, Jon has burned only his right hand, I think. Burns are categorized as small if less than 15% of body surface is damaged and very large if greater than 85% body surface is damaged. Based on the rule of palms, which places a palm and fingers at less than 1% of the body, if Jon's burns include the front and back of his hand, that is still only 2% or less. I agree in Jon's case, infection would be the most dangerous part of the process.
You're right to think it's not about the muscles. It's about the tendons, which must be flexed and flexed and flexed again to avoid getting a hand turned into a useless claw. At least, that's how it is in RL.
on a side note-I can't help seeing a disquieting mirroring to Victarion's hand here. What do you think?
There is definitely something to do with the hand burns. So far Jon's hand doesn't seem super special. But we see Victarion's hand almost like a revved up, stronger, better than ever version of his previous hand, even if it looks like pork cracklings! Eesh! I think Victarion's burned arm goes up to his elbow, so it's half his arm, not just his hand. Also, we have Jaime's golden hand, which is also could make his sword hand impervious to heat or fire.
And you are correct about the tendon's and ligaments but burns can do a lot of muscle damage as well. Muscle wasting is a huge concern in deep tissue burns, although Jon's burns are probably not classified as deep tissue.
As to Jon's hand flexing, I am not sold that it is all related to therapy for his burned hand. Some of it could be, but most of it isn't. Or that's my opinion, any way. I think it's a stress response that has either a instinctual component or it is a learned behavior; either way, it's a Stark trait.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Hahaha! I think it was a quail, but it is nice to think of Rhaenys getting some revenge! This idea hurt's my "rhaenys is alive" tinfoil, however!
Alas, there is an SSM on the little girl, that is quite clear...
Elia’s Children
I was wondering if you could answer (or take the "fifth") one teeny little question I've been dying to ask for the past year: Are Aegon and Rhaenys, Elia's children, well and truly dead?
All I have to say is that there is absolutely no doubt that little Princess Rhaenys was dragged from beneath her father's bed and slain.
Oh, I am well aware of this SSM, and it does hurt my tinfoil a bit. But I will say this about the SSM's. They are not canon, and GRRM has said himself that until it's in the text of the books, it's not canon. Here is that article. He says he is still feeling out and writing the story, and I think sometimes his gardener style smothers his architecture style. The story is changing and evolving as he writes, and he says "Nothing is actually canon until it appears in the novel". Granted, I doubt much of my tinfoil idea's will turn out to be correct, but it's fun to speculate!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
As to Jon's hand flexing, I am not sold that it is all related to therapy for his burned hand. Some of it could be, but most of it isn't
Surgical interventions to damaged tendons is hardly common, but quite normal in my RL profession, and one of the things I most appreciated in the Jon chapters was the emphasis on the rehab for flexibility in his sword hand.
Sidenote: this and the use of weirwood for interiour (Harrenhal and Whitewalls for example) makes me wonder how rare weirwoods really are in the south. Could be they are more common that we are led to believe.
This is a good question. Harren was supposedly cursed in part for the amount of weirwoods that he cut down to build his castle, among all the death and slavery he brought to the riverlands. But Harrenhal was just completed around the time of Aegon's conquest, so those weirwoods he used were standing not long ago.
Weirwoods that had stood three thousand years were cut down for beams and rafters. ACOK-Catelyn I
So, Cat tells us in her first chapter of Game that there are no weirwoods left in the south, that the Andals cut them down during their invasion. But here, we have a enough weirwoods to help built the largest castle in Westeros. Which is it? Are there no weirwoods, or are there plenty of them?
I guess Cat could be incorrect on the amount of weirwoods in the south to start with. It's also possible that these weirwoods that Harren Hoare used to build had begun to grow after the Andal invasion, as if the weirwoods were trying to restake their claim to his land of the south.
In the south the last weirwoods had been cut down or burned out a thousand years ago, except on the Isle of Faces where the green men kept their silent watch. AGOT-Catelyn I
Or did Harren get his trees from the Isle of Faces and that is why his castle is cursed?
Truly, we know that Cat has to be a somewhat wrong in her assertion that the weirwoods were all cut down in the south. Later we will hear of plenty of weirwoods that have survived in the south, or at least some that have regrown. Many of the great castles have weirwoods in the godswoods, even Riverrun, which Cat seems to have forgotten about since she came to live at Winterfell.
But it's an odd thing, because even in Game, we hear of the weirwood heart tree at Riverrun. It's face is sad. Robb and his northmen pray to it.
She found Robb beneath the green canopy of leaves, surrounded by tall redwoods and great old elms, kneeling before the heart tree, a slender weirwood with a face more sad than fierce. His longsword was before him, the point thrust in the earth, his gloved hands clasped around the hilt. Around him others knelt: Greatjon Umber, Rickard Karstark, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover, and more. Even Tytos Blackwood was among them, the great raven cloak fanned out behind him. These are the ones who keep the old gods, she realized. AGOT-Catelyn XI
Sometimes I wonder if it was just sloppy writing on GRRM's part. The world building got away from him?
For, despite everything, the First Men were far more numerous than the Andals and could not simply be forced aside. The fact that many southron castles still have godswoods with carved weirwoods at their hearts is said to be thanks to the early Andal kings, who shifted from conquest to consolidation, thus avoiding any conflict based on differing faiths. TWOIAF-Ancient History: The Arrival of the Andals
This statement in the World Book almost seems like GRRM is cleaning up his own information mess.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
As to Jon's hand flexing, I am not sold that it is all related to therapy for his burned hand. Some of it could be, but most of it isn't
Surgical interventions to damaged tendons is hardly common, but quite normal in my RL profession, and one of the things I most appreciated in the Jon chapters was the emphasis on the rehab for flexibility in his sword hand.
It's a pet theory of mine that Jon's hand activities are more instinct than therapy. I have been meaning to write up a little thread on it, and perhaps I will, as I hate to derail this thread. The only way it makes sense is to see all the instances of Jon's hand flexing, and he does it a lot, and it's a lot of quotes that have nothing to do with Mance or Bloodraven. I think some of it is rehab but some of it is instinctual. I am not sure Jon even realizes why he does what he does.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Surgical interventions to damaged tendons is hardly common, but quite normal in my RL profession, and one of the things I most appreciated in the Jon chapters was the emphasis on the rehab for flexibility in his sword hand.
I've missed this detail- tell me more, please
It's a pet theory of mine that Jon's hand activities are more instinct than therapy. I have been meaning to write up a little thread on it, and perhaps I will, as I hate to derail this thread. The only way it makes sense is to see all the instances of Jon's hand flexing, and he does it a lot, and it's a lot of quotes that have nothing to do with Mance or Bloodraven. I think some of it is rehab but some of it is instinctual. I am not sure Jon even realizes why he does what he does.
It's a bit long, as I used all the quotes I could find on Jon's hand flexing, but I think that helps explain my idea's a bit better on why I am not sure all of Jon's actions are related to Aemon's teachings.
Last Edit: Aug 22, 2018 5:42:13 GMT by stdaga: fixing link
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I think some of it is rehab but some of it is instinctual. I am not sure Jon even realizes why he does what he does.
He was instructed by Maester Aemon to do so.
"You can wield Longclaw despite the pain?" "Well enough." Jon flexed his fingers, opening and closing his fist the way the maester had shown him. "I'm to work the fingers every day to keep them nimble, as Maester Aemon said." "Blind he may be, but Aemon knows what he's about.
This is a good question. Harren was supposedly cursed in part for the amount of weirwoods that he cut down to build his castle, among all the death and slavery he brought to the riverlands. But Harrenhal was just completed around the time of Aegon's conquest, so those weirwoods he used were standing not long ago.
Not only that. The Second Blackfyre Rebellion, the one that was snuffed out at the outset, took place at Whitewalls Castle. (Bloodraven had it dismantled after) Here's a description from The Mystery Knight:
They seated the hedge knights well below the salt, closer to the doors than to the dais. Whitewalls was almost new as castles went, having been raised a mere forty years ago by the grandsire of its present lord. The smallfolk hereabouts called it the Milk house, for its walls and keeps and towers were made of finely dressed white stone, quarried in the Vale and brought over the mountains at great expense. Inside were floors and pillars of milky white marble veined with gold; the rafters overhead were carved from the bone-pale trunks of weirwoods. Dunk could not begin to imagine what all of that had cost. The hall was not so large as some others he had known, though.(snip)
As the wood is expensive, it's probably more on the rare side. But still it seems more abundant than we are led to believe. Or at least my impression was that they were very uncommon in the south, a bit more common in the north, and still more common beyond the Wall; but in all not abundant anywhere in Westeros. Now I'm not sure at all (and another thing to write behind my ear).
An interesting mini-spoiler from WoW could be a pointer, though:
Arianne notes them when they go through the Rainwood, though not by name. Can't remember how many she saw at the top of my head, but they were there. Couldn't find the quote, as that chapter isn't in the search engine at this time (and I'm too lazy to find the chapter elsewhere and find the passage... )
I'm doubtfull that Harren got his timber from the Gods Eye, as I think that would've been mentioned somewhere. And probably debunk the talk of how the isle defends itself against humans that come too close.
But it's an odd thing, because even in Game, we hear of the weirwood heart tree at Riverrun. It's face is sad. Robb and his northmen pray to it.
Well, my headcanon says that the heart tree there was a redwood... Probably that quote from Cat I you pulled out that caused it; while a weirwood at other castles is in my headcanon, it's not at Riverrun due to that.