Mance Rayder is the son of Bloodraven.

Interesting that these are described as a ring of stumps, indicating they grow in a circle, or at least a rough circle. That seems like something that nature does not do, but man. However, these are not normal tree's, so they might very well spring up in a circular pattern.

arrysfleas has me fairly convinced that Nagga's Bones in the Iron Island are in fact dead weirwoods, even the description really fit's, "where the ribs of Nagga rose from the earth like the trunks of great white trees". If they are weirwoods, they don't seem to grow in a circle, more like a double line of tree's, but this could easily have formed some great sized hall, which is rumored to be the Grey King's hall. This could indicate building with weirwoods again. Either the weirwoods grew naturally and were used to form the skeleton of the hall, or the tree's were cut down and moved and the hall was built, and all that now remains is the weirwoods. This seems a bit more likely since weirwoods are said not to grow on the Iron Islands as it's too rocky. If they came from the mainland, I wonder where these tree's came from?


I am mostly just speculating that the tree's might grow fast with the correct conditions, whatever that might be. I just keep thinking of the slender weirwood that Brienne has Nimble Dick Crabb buried under. She describes is as young and slender, although I don't know how young it is, since it's strong enough to hold Shagwell's weight.

shymaid , also to completely derail our current topic, while reading that Brienne chapter when they are at The Whisper's, Dick Crabb points out an old beacon tower to Brienne, and describes that it fell when he was half as young as Pod, however long ago that was. It just made me think of your search for "a tower long fallen". I doubt it's this one, but it's always interesting to me how GRRM can sneak stuff into the text without it seeming important. This particular tower actually fell into the sea (a cove actually) and the water swirls around the fallen stones. Brienne's journey in the riverlands has to more than just GRRM the gardener and world building. Or at least I hope it has some meaning to the story.


It is weird, and since it's all in Game, I find it hard to believe this was a mistake by GRRM. It is possible that Cat avoided the tree, but how does she not acknowledge that the heart tree in her own childhood home is a weirwood with a face carved into it. It just defies logic. Though, sometimes her actions defy logic so ...

So, I just wonder if it could have been planted after she left home, but that doesn't seem quite right, either. And it does seem odd to think the northman would make themselves so at home at Riverrun that they just start carving faces into tree's. The Greatjon is a bold one, though.

I have toyed with the idea of a time loop but that only works if GRRM decides to go full scifi. Kind of like Back to the Future, where the past keeps changing the future until it's corrected what needs to be corrected. Perhaps in one reality, there never was a weirwood in Riverrun, but now, there is. All of these slender weirwoods that pop up make me think of Bran, just like the slender weirwood that grew in Jon's dream that had his brother's face. Could Bran, in the tree's, be causing tree's to grow in places that he thinks they need to be? Yes, I know this is beyond cracked pottery type of speculation! 

The first weirwood in the story that is described as slender is the weirwood at Riverrun, with a face more sad than fierce. The second in the in the story is the weirwood in Jon's dream, which Jon's tells us "has his brother's face". I know this is a dream tree, but what if Jon actually see's in a dream a tree growing that Bran has placed somewhere? The third slender weirwood is at The Whisper's at Crack Claw Point, and has no face (I don't think) is called slender and young.

Now, to derail my own cracked pottery, Bran is never described as slender in the text. But Jon is, but so far we don't have the idea that Jon is spending anytime studying in weirwood groves. Also Meera and Jojen Reed are described as slender. So, I wonder a little bit about Howland Reed who the text hints spent some time at the Isle of Faces, a rumored huge weirwood grove. Could Howland be slender, and it is Howland that is causing these slender weirwoods to pop up?

Another tree that crosses my mind, but is never described as slender, is the weirwood growing in the kitchen at the Nightfort. To possibly connect it to Bran, it is described as twisted, and it reminds me of something Jon thinks about Bran's legs, the first time he seen him after his fall, that the legs were bent in ways that made Jon feel sick. When looking at twisted in the story in relation to weirwoods, the description is almost always about root's (this exception might be a set of doors in the House of the Undying) but that makes me think of Bloodraven, who is seated on weirwood (twisted?) roots.

Does Bloodraven have the power to make tree's grow where he wants? Bran could learn this trick from him. Or could Howland have learned this trick? Each greenseer in the roots might have the power to cause tree's to grow where they need a set of eyes or ears? It's tinfoil and speculation, of course ...

That Bran and Co are in a cave under the nine weirwoods north of Castle Black? I would agree. Coldhands marched those guys around in circles to get them disoriented, but I would bet they are not that far from the wall.


I am sure the groves are powerful, but I am curious about the roots and caves under any weirwood tree. The new tree growing at The Whisper's will have caves underneath it, because it is an area where caves have been washed out from the sea. Casterly Rock's weirwood is said to be queer and twisted and it's roots have nearly filled the cave below it. Are the caves very powerful too? If what is above is the eyes and ears of the system, what is below? The brain, the hard drive?

We know there are crypts (that must be caves) under Winterfell, but in those descriptions, we have never been told that there are weirwood roots in the crypts. Another thing that might set Winterfell apart is the black pool that grows beside the weirwood. Does that have something to do with the weirwood root system not being noted in Winterfell? Could it make the tree more powerful, or could it inhibit it in some way?

One thing that is odd to me about Nagga's Hill, is that if it once was a weirwood grove, there must be caves below it, so why haven't these caves been investigated? Perhaps because the place is sacred? When the tree's die, do the roots wither and die, or are they a permanent part of the world below the earth?

Well, I think there is a hint on the description of how the tree's grow and who might have wanted them to grow. Jon ties a slender weirwood to Bran, and so I wonder if a connection is to be made between Bran and all slender weirwoods. However, Bran himself is never described as slender in the text, so perhaps it is not him causing these particular tree's to pop up. I think it is, but I could also see how it could be Jon, who is described as slender, and if we find out some day that Jon is a powerful greenseer, too. 

Other people tied to a slender description in the text that associate both the old gods and weirwoods are Meera and Jojen. If they are both slender, is it possible that one of their parents is slender as well? Could the slender tree's actually be a nod to Howland? I think he is going to turn out to be very important, he is tied to the ability to talk to tree's and weave words into magic and that is even before he visited the Isle of Faces. That young crannogman is also noted to be a tree climber, which possibly ties to Bran. Is Howland sending Bran messages the reason that he has been inspired to climb tree's since  before he can remember? 

If I had to bet money, I would say the slender tree's tie to Bran, but Howland is my wild card for second place in relation to the slender tree's. Jon is less likely, although he is noted to be slender.


Oh, I don't think that the slender ties to Bloodraven in the tree descriptions, but perhaps the twisted root's of the weirwoods tie back to Bloodraven. He is in a cave with twisted roots that have become a part of him, or he has become part of them. I do think it's interesting that Jon describes Bran's legs as "bent in ways that made him sick". It doesn't say twisted directly, but one definition of twisted is to be forced out of its natural or proper shape. I do think this could tie to Bran's fall being caused by Bloodraven, perhaps as a way to push Bran forward on his journey.


Well, just because the Red Keep doesn't have a weirwood, it doesn't mean that Bloodraven isn't seeing his brothers and the woman he desired through different tree's in a different castle. Those people he is referring to don't need to be in the Red Keep. I guess I don't know what the Red Keep has to do with what Bloodraven might be seeing with these people he is referring to. Is that something from Dunk and Egg?

And the Red Keep does have a heart tree and it has a face. It's a black oak, but perhaps a powerful greenseer could use all the tree's with faces? The tree's that have faces are connected at least in the fact that someone carved them in a similar manner, and perhaps with a similar intent.

And it is possible that Bloodraven might not need tree's to see what he wants in the world now, but he might have at one time. I am sure that he grew stronger in his greensight powers as the years have passed and he might not need to tools he needed when he was starting too learn.

I attempted to look into this in detail last night, but work foiled my attempts to do a thorough job. However, in Game Jon VI, Mormont tell's the recruits that there is a weirwood grove half a league away from "this spot", which probably means Castle Black, so that is not very far north of the wall. Half a league works out to be about 1.7 miles, so not very far at all. So, if the cave is that close to the wall, it's hard to think that someone would notice something. I mean, you should be able to see the wall from miles and miles away. I am still not positive what "this spot" indicates. If he means Castle Black, why wouldn't Mormont just say "here"?

However, when Jon and crew return with Other and Jafer's body, Jon mentions emerging from the tree's and being able to see the wall, indicates that in the forest, no matter how tall the wall is, the tree's kept Jon from seeing the wall. Othor and Jaffer's bodies could not have been that far from the weirwood grove. So is it possible that Bran and Co could be so close to the wall without knowing it because they can't see the wall because of the tree's? It seems unlikely, but ...

I will have to attempt to look into this in more detail, not just looking at two chapters, but I just keep thinking about how GRRM likes to mess with the perceptions of his readers. And there is an odd sort of mirror image/inverse in play at times in this story, and it would be an interesting inverse looking at what happens above the ground of a weirwood grove contrasted with what happens below the ground of the very same grove.

Yes, Meera does seem to think that Coldhands could be leading them possibly in circles. But is there a lake or river that close to the wall? Could Coldhands have lead them south instead of north? Would they not be able to sense even a little bit of the sun's direction, even if the tree's are dense and the cloud cover is heavy? I am not sold either way, but it would be ironic if Bran is so close to the weirwood grove and the wall. But two miles is VERY close!

Another place that we have spent some time around north of the wall that seems to be important is the Fist of the First Men. It's a special place as well, and might contain caves under it. The Fist is by the Milkwater and some streams, and lies in Haunted Forest. From the Fist, Jon can see areas of weirwood tree's, which could indicate that a special root system lies under those tree's as well. I'm going to add the chapters that involve the Fist into my little cauldron of information! Jon and Sam and Chett give us POV's of this place. My "it's just a few chapters" search is growing!

If Bran's cave could lie near the Fist, it would fit some of the other names that GRRM has given special wierwood groves, such as High Heart and the Isle of Faces in the God's Eye. Fist, heart, face, eye, are all descriptions of places on a body, and that might be worth paying attention to.