Post by Lady Dyanna on Sept 16, 2015 4:07:53 GMT
I was originally going to create a thread for this, but I think that it might fit nicely here. I was going through a thread on W about whether people would be upset if Jon Snow was a Dayne instead of a Targaryan. A poster by the name of King of the Narrow Sea made a few comments that I found interesting. (My apologies if this is a pseudonym for any of you all.) Basically, his argument was that there really are not any clues specific to RLJ. Rather there were clues that R+L=X, (in his mind most probably Dany) and then there were clues that N+W=/=J. People took both sets of clues and combined them to make RLJ. According to KotNS the majority of the R+L clues come from Dany's story line. I haven't actually paid that much attention to this to know for sure if it's entirely true, but I thought it was worth discussion. I'll quote a bit from one of his posts on the subject below.
But that aside, my main point that a lot of the "R+L=J clues" commonly cited that "prove" R+L=J don't pop up around Jon at all, and you even went ahead and cited some of them. They consistently pop up around Dany
- blue rose at the Wall was a vision received by Dany, and most expect her to end up at the Wall one day, and the visions were declared to be about past, present, and future events. Dany is also far more likely to "fill the air with sweetness" as the flower does, as Jon never did that (how can Jon be the flower if he doesn't do what the flower does?)
- Rhaegar saying there must be one more head while looking at Dany, while he was trying to have another daughter
- Lyanna's "promise me" constantly pops up around discussions of Dany, not Jon
Then there's other stuff that point to Dany over Jon
- Dany seemingly has memories that link to Dorne when she should never have lived in Dorne
- Dany constantly has visions of herself as Rhaegar
- Dany is constantly referred to as being like Rhaegar and taking everybody by surprise by how much she is
- Dany is constantly trying to live up to how Rhaegar was, and is obsessed with knowing about him over Aerys
- Everybody constantly thinking about Rhaegar around her
- Dany receives a spirited young female horse with silver hair that's "as grey a the winter sea" that she instantly bonds with
- Dany is one of the most beautiful woman in the world as would be expected if two of the most beautiful people in Westoros, Rhaegar and Lyanna, had a baby rather than plain faced Jon
- Dany marries for duty like Rhaegar, but falls for Daario and Barristan concludes that it's no good, just as it was not good that Rhaegar loved Lyanna
- Dany wonders how Rhaegar could ever have done what he did for Lyanna
- Dany hatches dragons, and Rhaegar was obssessed with Summerhall, an attempt to hatch dragons
etc.
I mean, there's actually so much of Dany's story that is centered around Rhaegar and Lyanna, with parallels between them, and there's nothing like that at all in Jon's story. If you accept that Dany is not actually who she thinks she is the girl who was born on Dragonstone who in all likelihood died like Aerys and Rhaella's children always did, which there are basis for, then there's far more of the story that fits with Dany being Rhaegar and Lyanna's child than Jon.
R+L=J is really an attempt to force the R+L=X and E+W=/=J clues together to make Jon Rhaegar and Lyanna's child, when the story more naturally flows that Dany is it as it's been Dany all along who's had the Rhaegar and Lyanna connections and clues thrown into her story.
- blue rose at the Wall was a vision received by Dany, and most expect her to end up at the Wall one day, and the visions were declared to be about past, present, and future events. Dany is also far more likely to "fill the air with sweetness" as the flower does, as Jon never did that (how can Jon be the flower if he doesn't do what the flower does?)
- Rhaegar saying there must be one more head while looking at Dany, while he was trying to have another daughter
- Lyanna's "promise me" constantly pops up around discussions of Dany, not Jon
Then there's other stuff that point to Dany over Jon
- Dany seemingly has memories that link to Dorne when she should never have lived in Dorne
- Dany constantly has visions of herself as Rhaegar
- Dany is constantly referred to as being like Rhaegar and taking everybody by surprise by how much she is
- Dany is constantly trying to live up to how Rhaegar was, and is obsessed with knowing about him over Aerys
- Everybody constantly thinking about Rhaegar around her
- Dany receives a spirited young female horse with silver hair that's "as grey a the winter sea" that she instantly bonds with
- Dany is one of the most beautiful woman in the world as would be expected if two of the most beautiful people in Westoros, Rhaegar and Lyanna, had a baby rather than plain faced Jon
- Dany marries for duty like Rhaegar, but falls for Daario and Barristan concludes that it's no good, just as it was not good that Rhaegar loved Lyanna
- Dany wonders how Rhaegar could ever have done what he did for Lyanna
- Dany hatches dragons, and Rhaegar was obssessed with Summerhall, an attempt to hatch dragons
etc.
I mean, there's actually so much of Dany's story that is centered around Rhaegar and Lyanna, with parallels between them, and there's nothing like that at all in Jon's story. If you accept that Dany is not actually who she thinks she is the girl who was born on Dragonstone who in all likelihood died like Aerys and Rhaella's children always did, which there are basis for, then there's far more of the story that fits with Dany being Rhaegar and Lyanna's child than Jon.
R+L=J is really an attempt to force the R+L=X and E+W=/=J clues together to make Jon Rhaegar and Lyanna's child, when the story more naturally flows that Dany is it as it's been Dany all along who's had the Rhaegar and Lyanna connections and clues thrown into her story.