stdaga , tootles thinks Halfhand is Hightower and Half maester is Leyton. i want Ducky to be ned
Well, Leyton hasn't been seen for over a decade, or so we are told. So that is possible that he is not even in the High Tower at all, but halfway around the world. What time was this band of protectors supposedly formed around Young Griff who is possibly Aegon? Do the ages fit? Leyton Hightower must be 50's, I would say, based on his series of marriages and the ages of those children. Even if Lynesse was 16 when she wed Jorah, is the youngest child of Leyton's, and would be around 26 now. Her sister Alerie Tyrell must be around 40, based on the ages of Willis and Garlan. For some reason, I don't picture Haldon as being a man in his 50's but there is really no text reason to refute the idea.
While I would love the Neddard to be alive, I can't imagine him as Ducky, what with his orange hair and unkept beard. Even with a face half hidden by that wild beard, how would Tyrion not recognize Ned Stark? Interestingly, Rolly has similar blacksmith and hammer hints about him that remind me of Gendry in someways, and Robert in others.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
stdaga , tootles thinks Halfhand is Hightower and Half maester is Leyton. i want Ducky to be ned
Well, Leyton hasn't been seen for over a decade, or so we are told. So that is possible that he is not even in the High Tower at all, but halfway around the world. What time was this band of protectors supposedly formed around Young Griff who is possibly Aegon? Do the ages fit? Leyton Hightower must be 50's, I would say, based on his series of marriages and the ages of those children. Even if Lynesse was 16 when she wed Jorah, is the youngest child of Leyton's, and would be around 26 now. Her sister Alerie Tyrell must be around 40, based on the ages of Willis and Garlan. For some reason, I don't picture Haldon as being a man in his 50's but there is really no text reason to refute the idea.
While I would love the Neddard to be alive, I can't imagine him as Ducky, what with his orange hair and unkept beard. Even with a face half hidden by that wild beard, how would Tyrion not recognize Ned Stark? Interestingly, Rolly has similar blacksmith and hammer hints about him that remind me of Gendry in someways, and Robert in others.
Haldon is a Darry IMO. Remind me to try and explain my Darry Master Plan TM. Be warned it looks a lot like this.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Haldon is a Darry IMO. Remind me to try and explain my Darry Master Plan TM. Be warned it looks a lot like this.
If your plan is as great as this diagram, I am ready to hear it!
I don't myself have any great thoughts on Haldon except for noting that his eyes are described by Tyrion as "cool grey eyes" and this is the exact same description we get from Catelyn on Brandon Stark's eyes when he was prepared to duel Petyr Baelish! I am not sure if I think it's a random coincidence, but I can't make it fit much tinfoil ... yet!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Haldon is a Darry IMO. Remind me to try and explain my Darry Master Plan TM. Be warned it looks a lot like this.
If your plan is as great as this diagram, I am ready to hear it!
I don't myself have any great thoughts on Haldon except for noting that his eyes are described by Tyrion as "cool grey eyes" and this is the exact same description we get from Catelyn on Brandon Stark's eyes when he was prepared to duel Petyr Baelish! I am not sure if I think it's a random coincidence, but I can't make it fit much tinfoil ... yet!
Its funny since the Darry plan is something I believe is part of the larger Dornish Master Plan. (Inspired by PJ but I have far different conclusions)
Also some of my thoughts appear in this threads and are interesting reads in themselves.
I think the High Sparrow is a Old Lord Darry aka Raymun's father.
Raymun isn't dead (or he could be) but the important thing is that he lied about being attacked by the Mountain in order to spark the WotFK. Lyman is also alive and his in the caverns under Darry that we learn about in the World Book. (See PJ's Riverlands of the Dragon videos for the manipulation)
Jonothor Darry didn't die on the on Trident. He drifted down and become the Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle. After all we already have one supposedly dead King's Guard on the Quiet Isle. Aka the Hound aka The Gravedigger which is widely known theory.
Basically House Darry helped start the WotFK in order to weaken the regime for Targaryen restoration. They helped create the Brotherhood without Banners who are full of Targ supporters.
Finally as the High Sparrow being a Darry they can use the religious rebirth of the Faith of the Seven to bring down the Usurper and his allies in help usher in a proper Targaryen King or Queen.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Thanks for the links. I will have to look them over.
I don't know why, but House Darry just doesn't tip my radar at all. It's almost like I have a ward against them! I can't explain it! I felt like this reading the theory on the missing Darry bastard, too. In hindsight I can see it, but not before it's pointed out to me. It's a funny think how the mind can focus on one subject with acute scrutiny and another subject just rolls on by.
When I think about it, House Darry is interesting in the sense that they always seemed to be Targaryen Loyalists, and it is right there in their castle that House Stark and Lannister overtly started to feud over the direwolves and Arya and Joffrey's confrontation on the Trident! They seem to be placed in the center of action, while only appearing as shadows.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I don't know why, but House Darry just doesn't tip my radar at all. It's almost like I have a ward against them! I can't explain it! I felt like this reading the theory on the missing Darry bastard, too. In hindsight I can see it, but not before it's pointed out to me. It's a funny think how the mind can focus on one subject with acute scrutiny and another subject just rolls on by.
It easier to catch the bigger and seemingly more important stuff. You easily miss stuff you aren't looking for.
When I think about it, House Darry is interesting in the sense that they always seemed to be Targaryen Loyalists, and it is right there in their castle that House Stark and Lannister overtly started to feud over the direwolves and Arya and Joffrey's confrontation on the Trident! They seem to be placed in the center of action, while only appearing as shadows.
Indeed Darry is right at the start of our story. Also Lancel is the current Lord of Darry and we see Jaime stay there. Then after speaking to the High Sparrow Lancel decides to renounce his Lordship and join the Faith Militant.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I am curious where you got your idea's for translation on these names. In the real world, Tor us usually used in names that connect to Thor, the God of Thunder.
One of the reasons I ask, is because I am working on the concept over the last several months that the tower of joy wasn't a man made tower at all, but a tor, a tower-like hill or rocky peak, perhaps made of granite, something that might appear a tower from far away but actually be very much formed by nature. Perhaps something that Rhaegar named "tower of joy" in a tongue in cheek manner!
Oh through Wiktionary, they give meanings of Tor in different languages, tor in English is given as tower, Hill and dor is gate, door.
I think Aegon has northern clues but not much, red wolf cloak, blue hair tied to mother, sentinel trees circling a pool and the statue of "Illyrio", when Varys kills Kevan and Pycelle and announce the return of Aegon Kevan sees a white raven, white raven means winter, he also seems to be more reckless and bold compared to Elia and Rhaegar, Aegon also prefers training with Duck to his lessons with Haldon, we know Rhaegar was bookish and Lyanna was a wild child that wanted to carry a sword. But of course he could be child of Elia truly, though I can't see him as a fake.
Oh through Wiktionary, they give meanings of Tor in different languages, tor in English is given as tower, Hill and dor is gate, door.
Seriously! I have never been to wiktionary before, but I had to try it out! Yes, tower/tor! I laughed so hard. Several months ago now, while researching cairns, cists, barrows, tombs, burial sites, I was watching video's on Dartmoor and Exmoor and thought the pronunciation of tor sounded a lot like tower, and developed my whole concept on how the "tower of joy" was a natural structure, a tor, not a man made tower. And probably not in Dorne at all! I could have just gone to wiktionary, it seems! Thanks for the info!!!
I think Aegon has northern clues but not much, red wolf cloak, blue hair tied to mother, sentinel trees circling a pool and the statue of "Illyrio", when Varys kills Kevan and Pycelle and announce the return of Aegon Kevan sees a white raven, white raven means winter, he also seems to be more reckless and bold compared to Elia and Rhaegar, Aegon also prefers training with Duck to his lessons with Haldon, we know Rhaegar was bookish and Lyanna was a wild child that wanted to carry a sword. But of course he could be child of Elia truly, though I can't see him as a fake.
I don't see those clues as clear links to the north, but I can understand the argument for them. The only red wolf I think of in the story (besides Jon Con) is Sansa, with her Stark imagery and red hair! Interesting how she has lost her wolf, has had the Hound stand as substitute but could have that role filled by another. The other thing I find interesting about that red wolf cloak that Jon Con wears is this line from Tyrion, noting the cloak was made from "a red wolf of the Rhoyne" which seems very specifically to tie either to the Rhoynar of Essos, or the Rhoyish peoples from Dorne. Of course, this hints at Elia to me, who is of Rhoynarish descent!
I guess Ghost could be argued to have "red" wolf imagery based on his eye color!
Whether Aegon is real or a fake is something I have internally debated about for years. My initial thought was that he was fake, since Jon must be real. But after rethinking my views on Jon's parentage, I think it's possible that Young Griff is the real deal. But I also wonder just a bit about Samwell Tarly fitting the role of Aegon, as in the child of Rhaegar and Elia, a child who has nothing to do with Lyanna except she may have played a role in protecting him.
As to the white raven representing winter, I guess it would in this scene, but white ravens truly represent the change of any season. And I have wondered if Varys knows of warging and skinchanging, and if he thinks the white raven could be being skinchanged and used to gather information, and he is using the raven to plant false information in what ever human is watching through it. My guess is that person would be Bloodraven!
Lot's of possibilities, I guess. I am eagerly awaiting The Winds of Winter, which I hope will be released this year!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Oh through Wiktionary, they give meanings of Tor in different languages, tor in English is given as tower, Hill and dor is gate, door.
Seriously! I have never been to wiktionary before, but I had to try it out! Yes, tower/tor! I laughed so hard. Several months ago now, while researching cairns, cists, barrows, tombs, burial sites, I was watching video's on Dartmoor and Exmoor and thought the pronunciation of tor sounded a lot like tower, and developed my whole concept on how the "tower of joy" was a natural structure, a tor, not a man made tower. And probably not in Dorne at all! I could have just gone to wiktionary, it seems! Thanks for the info!!!
I think Aegon has northern clues but not much, red wolf cloak, blue hair tied to mother, sentinel trees circling a pool and the statue of "Illyrio", when Varys kills Kevan and Pycelle and announce the return of Aegon Kevan sees a white raven, white raven means winter, he also seems to be more reckless and bold compared to Elia and Rhaegar, Aegon also prefers training with Duck to his lessons with Haldon, we know Rhaegar was bookish and Lyanna was a wild child that wanted to carry a sword. But of course he could be child of Elia truly, though I can't see him as a fake.
I don't see those clues as clear links to the north, but I can understand the argument for them. The only red wolf I think of in the story (besides Jon Con) is Sansa, with her Stark imagery and red hair! Interesting how she has lost her wolf, has had the Hound stand as substitute but could have that role filled by another. The other thing I find interesting about that red wolf cloak that Jon Con wears is this line from Tyrion, noting the cloak was made from "a red wolf of the Rhoyne" which seems very specifically to tie either to the Rhoynar of Essos, or the Rhoyish peoples from Dorne. Of course, this hints at Elia to me, who is of Rhoynarish descent!
I guess Ghost could be argued to have "red" wolf imagery based on his eye color!
Whether Aegon is real or a fake is something I have internally debated about for years. My initial thought was that he was fake, since Jon must be real. But after rethinking my views on Jon's parentage, I think it's possible that Young Griff is the real deal. But I also wonder just a bit about Samwell Tarly fitting the role of Aegon, as in the child of Rhaegar and Elia, a child who has nothing to do with Lyanna except she may have played a role in protecting him.
As to the white raven representing winter, I guess it would in this scene, but white ravens truly represent the change of any season. And I have wondered if Varys knows of warging and skinchanging, and if he thinks the white raven could be being skinchanged and used to gather information, and he is using the raven to plant false information in what ever human is watching through it. My guess is that person would be Bloodraven!
Lot's of possibilities, I guess. I am eagerly awaiting The Winds of Winter, which I hope will be released this year!
I am really interested in toj being natural and not build by man, I always thought Bael was a nod to R/L and Lyanna was in crypts as well but I suppose there is no need for Rhaegar for Lyanna to be in crypts
I really think George is going to release TWOW soon since F&B seem to have positive affeects on him so I am ready for the hypte train, chu chu!!!
I can see Bloodraven warging Mormont's raven but not all raven, Walgrave though that man plays a game too.
I am really interested in toj being natural and not build by man
I really like this concept too! As for the "tower long fallen" in Eddard's dream, I think that is a different location and whatever the toj ends up being.
I always thought Bael was a nod to R/L and Lyanna was in crypts as well but I suppose there is no need for Rhaegar for Lyanna to be in crypts
I used to think the Bael Tale was hinting at a bard and Stark maid having a child (who else but RL+J) who will become the Lord of Winterfell. But, it seems fairly obvious, and it's really not subtle. So, GRRM isn't as subtle as I think he is being, or it's a trap laid to lead us down the incorrect path.
Now, if there turns out to be an RL baby (which I really doubt) I think it will be Dany, Sam Tarly or Young Griff!
I really think George is going to release TWOW soon since F&B seem to have positive affeects on him so I am ready for the hypte train, chu chu!!!
It seems like writing Fire and Blood did reinspire the story in GRRM, but whether that means he can actually finish the book in a decent amount of time, I am still not holding my breath! I find myself cautiously optimistic, I guess!
I can see Bloodraven warging Mormont's raven but not all raven, Walgrave though that man plays a game too.
He could be skinchanging several animals. Ghost is certainly possible, too! As to the white raven, what is Bloodraven but an albino (white hair and skin) with raven imagery all over his Blackwood family tree. Although, to be fair, I don't think the white raven's are albino's, but specially breed white ravens (although they are quite as white as Brynden River's was).
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I think the High Sparrow is a Old Lord Darry aka Raymun's father.
Raymun isn't dead (or he could be) but the important thing is that he lied about being attacked by the Mountain in order to spark the WotFK. Lyman is also alive and his in the caverns under Darry that we learn about in the World Book. (See PJ's Riverlands of the Dragon videos for the manipulation)
Jonothor Darry didn't die on the on Trident. He drifted down and become the Elder Brother on the Quiet Isle. After all we already have one supposedly dead King's Guard on the Quiet Isle. Aka the Hound aka The Gravedigger which is widely known theory.
Basically House Darry helped start the WotFK in order to weaken the regime for Targaryen restoration. They helped create the Brotherhood without Banners who are full of Targ supporters.
Finally as the High Sparrow being a Darry they can use the religious rebirth of the Faith of the Seven to bring down the Usurper and his allies in help usher in a proper Targaryen King or Queen.
I finally got through those threads, although sometimes by the time I get to the end, I have forgotten what the first few pages were even about. But the gist that I seem to get from the concept of the Willen Darry who Dany remembers is that he isn't a Darry at all. Just a man using that name to disguise another identity. Now, that doesn't mean the Darry's are not involved in her plot line, but it does lessen how much they could be involved with her personally, or Viserys (or who Dany thinks of as Viserys).
The wild wacky Willen Darry thread actually left me thinking, if the man with Dany isn't really Willem Darry, then where is he? We have no reports of his death, and if he was in Westeros, someone would no doubt recognize him at some point.
It has also lead me to think that if Dany is a fake, then Viserys is more than likely a fake as well. Two children who conveniently look enough like Targaryen's to pass for them. Except whom ever Dany see's in her vision that she thinks is Rhaegar seems to look a lot like the person she thinks of as Viserys. So, that isn't very consistently inconsistent either! However, if Viserys isn't really Viserys, then that put's Gerald Dayne right back on my radar as possibly the real Viserys!
I am actually liking the idea that Haldon Half-Maester could be the Maester from Dragonstone, as opposed to Maester Walys, as is more commonly theorized! But what does that indicate about Young Griff's true identity?
As to the idea that Jonothor Darry didn't die, but became the Elder Brother, if that is so, which it could certainly work with what we know of the Elder Brothers story, is he plotting now, or has he accepted a new life on the Quiet Isle and isn't part of the game any longer? Jonothor Darry was the kingsguard who reminded Jaime of his duties as kingsguard, so it would think if he was truly alive still, he would be still fulfilling his duty as a kingsguard, but he certainly can't be doing that on the Quiet Isle. I would think he would be seeking out the heirs of Aerys and Rhaella (like Barristan) to help them if he could!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Whether Aegon is real or a fake is something I have internally debated about for years. My initial thought was that he was fake, since Jon must be real.
Hello everyone, This is my first post here, but I have been following these boards for a few years. I found this thread very interesting for a few reasons. I really like the idea of Dany being the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I have just started rereading the books again and look foward to seeking out the connection between Dany and northern symbolism. I also like the idea of the kingsguard not dying at the Tower of Joy or wherever they were. When I first read the books I was fascinated by the duel between Rattleshirt(Mance Rayder). The way he wielded that 2handed greatsword was legendary. Sometime later when I watched the video by OotGH about Mance Rayder possibly being Arthur Dayne that made a lot of sense to me, but whether it's true or not I cannot say. I don't see any ties between Qhorin Halfhand and Arthur Dayne, but I have only read the books once. What do you guys think about Arthur possibly being Mance? If this were to be true who else could Qhorin possibly be if he's not actually who he says he is?
Whether Aegon is real or a fake is something I have internally debated about for years. My initial thought was that he was fake, since Jon must be real.
Here's a thought: Why can't they both be real?
It's possible, but honestly that seems like overkill to me. Perhaps GRRM's subversion of the fantasy hidden prince trope will be that there are multiple hidden princes? But my guess is if there is a hidden prince, it will turn out to be someone that no one suspects. So not Jon, no Young Griff, and if Dany turns out to be Rhaegar's, she would not fit this either, because she would still be Dany with a Targaryen connection, just different parents. Unless she is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna. That changes her genetic's greatly, but would make sense of some of the northern imagery in her story line.
An interesting thing I have noticed over the years is that Cersei Lannister also has a fair amount of ice and winter and cold imagery about her character, and I can't imagine that she has Stark blood, so those hints I see in Dany might not indicate genetics but perhaps are hints about her path or the conclusion of the story?
Last Edit: Jan 7, 2019 16:04:00 GMT by stdaga: clarification!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Hello everyone, This is my first post here, but I have been following these boards for a few years. I found this thread very interesting for a few reasons. I really like the idea of Dany being the daughter of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I have just started rereading the books again and look foward to seeking out the connection between Dany and northern symbolism. I also like the idea of the kingsguard not dying at the Tower of Joy or wherever they were. When I first read the books I was fascinated by the duel between Rattleshirt(Mance Rayder). The way he wielded that 2handed greatsword was legendary. Sometime later when I watched the video by OotGH about Mance Rayder possibly being Arthur Dayne that made a lot of sense to me, but whether it's true or not I cannot say. I don't see any ties between Qhorin Halfhand and Arthur Dayne, but I have only read the books once. What do you guys think about Arthur possibly being Mance? If this were to be true who else could Qhorin possibly be if he's not actually who he says he is?
Welcome lumbergh! I hope you feel comfortable here and want to share your ideas. This place is great and very open-minded!
Yes, Dany does have some northern imagery in her story. Cold and ice, and she also has wolves in her imagery several times. I am not the greatest fan of R+L having any child, but I do think Dany is a good candidate for that child, if it occurred. She has fire and ice in her story! Where as Jon really only has ice! Okay, he kills a wight with fire, but so do other people. Other than that, I don't see much fire imagery around Jon. Oh, but Dany dreams of dragons and fires, she hears wolves and speaks with coldness in her voice! She is interesting! (I will say that I see several winter and cold and ice hints around Cersei, as well, which is rather odd!)
There are several fans of the Mance is Arthur Dayne, and one of the hints would be how well Mance fights with a greatsword. He whips Jon's butt! Also, the we do not bow concept hints at Dorne, at least to me. Event though Arthur, as a knight, sworn to the kingsguard, would have personally bent his knee multiple times over the years! For years, I have accepted Arthur's death as truth and even though I questioned it, I relied on Ned's apparent sorrow (according to Bran) about SAD's death. But it could be that Ned only believes that Arthur Dayne died; it's possible that Ned has been false memories or his dreams have confused him about what occurred when he met up with SAD and the kingsguard, if Ned's dream even in a small way reflects reality!
I kind of like SAD as Qhorin IF he lived, but I don't have much to back it up. And if he was the same man, then his role in our current story was a limited as it so far seems in the story around the rebellion's time, which just doesn't quite feel correct to me! I Like SAD as Mance much better than Mance is Rhaegar! I want Rhaegar to be dead, killed on the Trident, just as the imagery we get presents, his chest caved in like an egg-crate against Robert's war hammer!
I think the truth of Qhorin, if he isn't who he claims, is the real story of his hand imagery! I do think we will get some more about that. I don't think his injury came from a wildling axe! One of the parallel's that I do see for Qhorin to be Arthur is that Arthur was said to be a fierce warrior! Jaime relates in many ways to Authur Dayne, he learned from him, fought beside him, was knighted by him. In Jaime, we see a horrible hand injury, a period of sorrow and pity, but then a flair of wanting/needing to learn to hold a sword and fight with his left hand, which does not feel at all natural to him. But he keeps trying, and he is getting better each time he fights! I see a possible parallel in Qhorin's sword hand injury which caused him to learn to hold a sword with his left hand, and working so hard that he became quite good with his off hand! Now, this connection doesn't have to mean that SAD and Qhorin are the same person, it might just be a story to show us that if Jaime puts his self-pity away (which he has pretty much) and works, with time he will be able to wield a sword with his left hand as well as his right! An argument against the left hand sword wielding is that SAD/Qhorin would not be able to wield a greatsword with one hand, but in Jaime's case, I don't think he ever fought with a great sword!)
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.