Post by shymaid on Jan 22, 2019 10:04:10 GMT
Sure, we have a lot of speculation around this issue of heirs for Aegon. This idea that Rhaenys was for producing heirs is certainly possible, but it took her years to produce an heir as well. I think Aenys was born in 7AC and we don't know when Rhaenys and Aegon married, but the conquest started -2AC, and they were married at that time, so it still took her multiple years to produce an heir. If her purpose was to produce an heir, then why the delay? I suspect there were some conception issues, but who really knows. There might have been other pregnancies and losses that we just don't know about, for both Rhaenys or Visenya. I don't know if GRRM will ever give us more information on this.
As to whether Visenya is motherly or not, that is hard to say. I think women can be quite motherly while not fitting normal female roles, but I am not sure what the details were of the discussion you are part of.
Aenar and his wives is interesting. How many wives did he have? And how many children did those wives produce? Perhaps in marriages such as this, only one women was expected to produce an heir, just to make inheritance less of a problem down the road. Maybe a person could have enough wives to ride the amount of dragons that a person owned. Aenar is said to have come from Valyria with five dragons, although we are never told if they were all of an age to be ridden. Perhaps some were young, like Dany's, and needed to be carted around in a litter of some sort?
It really was just a thought that came to me when listening to a discussion on how Visenya hadn't become pregnant before. Nobody brought up the possibility of her not wanting a child in the first place. This doesn't rule out that Aegon had problems with his fertility which would become apparent over time. But as you say, there might have been miscarriages and stuff we don't hear about.
I don't think it was that usual to have several wives for the Valyrians, but it might not be that uncommon either. Or that Aegon and his sisters had a fairly recent "role model" on this might have influenced them. I don't think the number of dragons would determine how many wives one took. Aenar left Valyria with all his family, not just his wives, so there are many possibilities for dragonriders there. I think it's indicated that Balerion might have been the youngest dragon he had, but we don't know or which age he was at the time. We also don't get how the other dragons died, so it really is hard to say!
No, probably not, but he wasn't incapable of claiming a dragon, he just had not yet. Waiting for the right dragon, perhaps. Rhaena was said to be quite shy and withdrawn, I think, so perhaps Aegon was as well. Still, if he was afraid, he still managed to met Maegor in battle with dragons. We certainly are not told much about Aegon son of Aenys' personality! He is said to have been good with a sword and lance at a young age, I believe. I think they said that this young Aegon was very like his grandfather Aegon I, in some ways. As to why he didn't claim a dragon before his father died, it's hard to say. Neither did Maegor, but it wasn't because he was afraid. Maegor was just waiting for Balerion to be available, so perhaps in that way, Aegon was waiting to eventually claim his father's dragon, Quicksilver, at some point. We know very little of Aegon I, but perhaps Balerion was his father's dragon, and he didn't claim the black dread until his own father's death. This is pure speculation, of course.
Well, was there a dragon for him to claim at the time? It seems like Jaehaerys and Alysanne claimed their dragons at an early age, but we don't get this spesifically. Nor how many dragons there were. We also don't hear of Viserys claiming d dragon, so there might not be any one available. He might have been waiting, but we really don't know.
Not sure he'd manage to keep a hold on the realm even with a dragon right after Aenys died. Would he be strong and determined enough? Would he be able and willing to do what was needed? And as he was under 16 he would be dependent on a strong regent and strong allies. Alyssa probably wouldn't be strong enough if what we see later is an indication. I don't have a clear picture of who else he'd have on his side right now, but no name really stands out.
Bahaha! I know, right! Sometimes I think of the incest in this story as so routine now, it doesn't even come close to making me cringe! It seems as normal as coffee before breakfast...
I know! I'd never thought I'd be seeing the unfairness in not getting an incest bride! Though this is restricted to the Targaryens for the most part, and not something universal in my view of this word. That being said, when reading the Starkcest = Jon thread, I wasn't shocked or disgusted or anything I normaly am when incest comes up.
We really know very little about Lyanna. She might very much have wanted a child. I have heard people think she didn't because they compare her to a eight year old Arya, who doesn't feel like marriage or children are perhaps in her future, but that might not even be true of Arya by the time she reaches the age of 15. Or about Lyanna ever.
As to Daena being held in the maidenvault, I guess I am not sure if the maidenvault is a tower, part of a tower, part of Maegor's Holdfast, etc. Vault has always made me think of more of a tunnel or long hall, but perhaps I am thinking to much about it and perhaps that doesn't matter. What is interesting, is it seems Daena and her sisters were held prisoner to keep them from having children, while the common thought in the fandom is that Lyanna must have been held in a tower while she was attempting to have a child (or as part of some odd breeding program for Rhaegar's third head). I guess that works if there is an inverse of Daena at play, but if there is a mirror, then Lyanna would also have been held to keep her from having a child, not so she could get pregnant with one.
No, we don't know what she wanted at all. Or what Arya would want at the age of 14-15.
In my mind the Maidenvault is a separate building, but not a tower. But that could very well be wrong. Margaery gets the Maidenvault but I don't remember the descriptions of it.
If there are a clear tie between the two storylines, the interesting question is if it is an inverse or a parallell.
As to Lyanna and Tyanna, the names are very similar, and the idea of a tower could connect them, if Lyanna was held in a tower. We also have a Lianna in Fire and Blood, and I think she was a Velaryon who died from either illness or poison, but she died quite young. And never was pregnant as far as we know.
Frankly I haven't looked for any parallells or clues to Lyanna in Fire and Blood; there was one thing where I chuckled and thought the rlj-ers would have a field day and gass themselves in, but I don't remember what it was (yes, that's how interesting I find it...). There was the Velaryon girl, yes, and she was poisoned by Androw. (Gods, I feel sorry for Androw!) And she wasn't pregnant, which I find possible for Lyanna as well.
I wanted so badly to link Aerea Targaryen to the Stark's (and the fire hints I see about them), with the name similarity, but perhaps the family that I should be looking at is the Velaryon's for a blood connection. The Velaryon's were in Westeros before the Targaryen's, and I sometimes think they are the important catalyst in what is magical in the Targaryen lines. Hidden in plain site!
The name and character of Aerea is very similar to Arya, to be sure.
Could be! I don't think GRRM would be afraid of that method in his heroines!
Haha, no he wouldn't!
Aegon is confusing. And he didn't really want to merge his regions in any way except that they all bowed to him as king. It seems it was his sisters who were playing with marriage mergers, and he didn't much care. He really didn't do anything to change the day to day running or customs of his conquested kingdoms, he only seemed to want people to bend the knee. Perhaps he was a meglomaniac!
I haven't thought that much on his motivations, but it is curious that he wanted all the kingdoms under one rule. Could be strategic, avoiding war between the regions for one. At the same time I don't see much to say he was a megalomaniac either.
As for letting the kingdoms keep their customs and traditions after conquest, that might tactically be a very good move. In that case, it is only the highest authority that changes which would minimize resentment and possible rebellion. Harder to manage to be sure, but changing it over time might be much better. And he wanted younger sons and daughters of lords at court, where they were encouraged to think of themselves as from one realm, and not identify too much with their region and former separate identity. Basically getting them on the same side.
ETA- it seems like all Aegon took were swords (making me think the physical Iron Throne is important to the end game, perhaps), crowns (who knows what the heck happened to those), and he claimed some money by levying taxes. He did rule on some issues but left the day to day running of the kingdom to his sisters. He doesn't seem like a man interested in being a king, but he wanted Dorne in the fold so badly that he pushed hard enough to get a sister/wife and a dragon killed. His motivation is a mystery to me!
He certainly didn't do it for riches and money, nor for outright power, to me. Could be he underestimated the Dornish and their resistance, so I'm not sure I want to place Rhaenys's death on him alone. While she wasn't a warrior, she might have been willing to fight for him all the same.
He sure is an enigma, just as he was written to be!