Honestly Brandon/Ashara is still the only theory that makes me see red. No, Brandon didn't dishonor Ashara when he knew Eddard was interested in her. He asked Ashara to dance with Eddard, not himself. Plus Robb parallel makes more sense with Eddard too. Ned would dishonor a lady and not mary her, choosing a political match, Robb dishonor a lady and marries her, throwing down an alliance instead. I have no idea about Daenerys at the moment, I would love a thread about her childhood quotes book by book to understand how the eight/nine months gap with Jon works. Currently I am more interested in Eddard+Fisherman's daughter = Jon and Rhaella + Aerys = Aegon YG.
stdaga , alivealive0 ,my sidekick on reddit thinks the red door was on bear island
The mysterious house with the red door... I came across this passage while re-reading GoT:
Quote
A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI
They wandered for half the morning. She saw a beautiful feathered cloak from the Summer Isles, and took it for a gift. In return, she gave the merchant a silver medallion from her belt. That was how it was done among the Dothraki. A birdseller taught a green-and-red parrot to say her name, and Dany laughed again, yet still refused to take him. What would she do with a green-and-red parrot in a khalasar? She did take a dozen flasks of scented oils, the perfumes of her childhood; she had only to close her eyes and sniff them and she could see the big house with the red door once more. When Doreah looked longingly at a fertility charm at a magician's booth, Dany took that too and gave it to the handmaid, thinking that now she should find something for Irri and Jhiqui as well.
It isn't just the lemon tree that Dany remembers about the house with the red door but the scented oils and perfumes of her childhood.
Quote
A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI
But the Western Market smelled of home.
As Irri and Jhiqui helped her from her litter, she sniffed, and recognized the sharp odors of garlic and pepper, scents that reminded Dany of days long gone in the alleys of Tyrosh and Myr and brought a fond smile to her face. Under that she smelled the heady sweet perfumes of Lys. She saw slaves carrying bolts of intricate Myrish lace and fine wools in a dozen rich colors.
Quote (westeros wiki)
Economy
Lys is deeply involved in the slave trade, with slaves outnumbering freeborn Lyseni three to one. Lys is most famous for their bed slaves, and Lyseni are known to be famously voracious in their search for comely young boys and fair maids with their pillow houses. Lys is also known for the breeding of slaves, mating beauty with beauty, hoping to produce the most lovely courtesans and bed slaves.[1]
Lysene coins are oval in shape and have a naked woman stamped on them,[20] the native love goddess of Lys.[1]
Lys makes red and white wine,[3] as well as fine tapestries.[21] The alchemists of Lys are known to make poisons, including the strangler[22] and the tears of Lys.[23] Heady sweet perfumes also come from the city.[3] The Lyseni also make fine long dirks.[12]
There are no other free cities that list their economy as primarily brothels, perfumes and scented oils. It's also a place where lemons could grow.
Quote
Lys was founded as a colony of the Valyrian Freehold on an island in the Summer Sea, near the Broken Arm of Dorne and the Orange Shore of Essos.[24][25] Founded by wealthy merchants and nobles, Lys was mostly a trading colony.[25] Due to its climate, Lys soon became a resort destination of sorts for the dragonlords of old Valyria. The sunny island is fertile with palm and fruit trees, and the surrounding blue-green waters are filled with fish.[1]
Quote
People
More than anywhere else in the known world, the blood of Old Valyria still runs strong in the Lyseni, who are regarded as beautiful. Even the smallfolk in Lys have the pale skin, silver-gold hair, and purple, lilac, and pale blue eyes of the dragonlords of old. Many of the nobility in Lys have produced infamous beauties, and Targaryen kings and princes are known to have looked at Lys for wives and paramours.[1] The people of Lys are know to curl and perfume their hair.[3]
The Lysene tongue is a corruption of High Valyrian.[14]George R. R. Martin has described the Lysene dialect to be a musical, flowing, liquid tongue.[15] Like the Braavosi and Pentoshi, the Lyseni are great lovers of song.[16]
This would be a perfect place to hide Dany since her appearance wouldn't stand out but would be the norm for the population. Dany also learned High Valyrian as a child.
The house with the red door could be in the brothel district:
Quote
A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III
But it was not the plains Dany saw then. It was King's Landing and the great Red Keep that Aegon the Conqueror had built. It was Dragonstone where she had been born. In her mind's eye they burned with a thousand lights, a fire blazing in every window. In her mind's eye, all the doors were red.
I've never come across anything about memories evoked by perfumes on the forums; since the focus has always been on the lemon tree and whether or not this was in Braavos. Red doors are synonymous with brothels but they can be anywhere. It seems to me that Lys fits the bill on all counts including Dany's knowledge of high valyrian. It would be a good place to hide her in plain sight. Why Viserys would tell her that the house was in Braavos is probably not that much of a mystery. People (in story) would question whether or not she is in fact his sister.
Honestly Brandon/Ashara is still the only theory that makes me see red. No, Brandon didn't dishonor Ashara when he knew Eddard was interested in her. He asked Ashara to dance with Eddard, not himself. Plus Robb parallel makes more sense with Eddard too. Ned would dishonor a lady and not mary her, choosing a political match, Robb dishonor a lady and marries her, throwing down an alliance instead. I have no idea about Daenerys at the moment, I would love a thread about her childhood quotes book by book to understand how the eight/nine months gap with Jon works. Currently I am more interested in Eddard+Fisherman's daughter = Jon and Rhaella + Aerys = Aegon YG.
It seems I missed this post from months ago. Sorry.
I am currently finding Rhaella quite interesting in this mix. Could she be Dany's mother but Aerys is not the father. If so, who could the father be? I think any of the members of Aerys' Kings guard are options. Depending on the time of Dany's conception, perhaps Brandon or Rickard Stark, although it does sound like Aerys kept Rhaella pretty much under lock and key. Did she actually flee KL and then conceive? I could see several possibilities.
As to Aegon/Young Griff, perhaps he is the child that Rhaella carried in her womb from King's Landing. He must look enough like Rhaegar to convince JonCon, and in Dany's visions, it seems that Rhaeagar and Viserys looked enough alike to confuse her for a moment. I do like the idea that Young Griff could be the heir to the throne. The story seems to be setting up Aegon and Daenerys as opposites in the war for reclaiming the Targaryen throne. Dany thinks it's her right because she is the child of Aerys and Rhaella, but it would be a nice twist if Young Griff turned out to be that child. So much of Dany's arc revolves around her belief in who she is legally, what will happen if that is stripped from her? Will she rage and fight on? Honestly, Dany as a conqueror mirror's Aegon so much, and she has pretty much conquered a great deal of Essos. Why does she even need the Seven Kingdoms. Her destiny might just lie in Essos.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I've never come across anything about memories evoked by perfumes on the forums; since the focus has always been on the lemon tree and whether or not this was in Braavos. Red doors are synonymous with brothels but they can be anywhere. It seems to me that Lys fits the bill on all counts including Dany's knowledge of high valyrian. It would be a good place to hide her in plain sight. Why Viserys would tell her that the house was in Braavos is probably not that much of a mystery. People (in story) would question whether or not she is in fact his sister.
You make some interesting connections to Lys. I could see that being a possible place for Dany to have spent some time, but why is she so confused about that place and Braavos? Has she truly ever been to Braavos? It's a city that is quite different in weather and custom from the majority of the free cities, except perhaps Lorath and maybe Norvos, the northern free cities.
I did look at the wiki post on Lys and a couple other things stood out to me. There is a R'hller temple in Lys, and those are mostly described as being built of red stone, I wonder if they might also have red door's? Dany is certainly connected quite strongly to fire. It cleanses her and it's almost rebirth, which reminds me a bit of Melisandre. Could Dany have gazed upon a red temple from her house at some point, or been a slave child sold to a red temple?
Also, Lys is known for having surviving dragonlords, even though after the Doom, the dragons and dragonriders in Lys were killed. But the genes might live on in the children surviving those dragonlords. The people are certainly colored like the Valyrian's. So, while you think this could be a good place to hide a Targaryen child, and it certainly might be, I would question if it would also be a good place to find a child to act as an impostor for a Targaryen child. IF Dany is not a Targaryen at all, yet still manages to have the blood of the dragon lords in her veins, perhaps she would have the genes and the knowledge to hatch and ride dragons? Since so much of Dany's arc and actions are tied to her belief that she is the true Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne, I would like the irony of her being a bastard slave birthed in a perfume house who just happened to be "taught" that she was someone she is actually not.
Also, I guess there is the potential of several Targaryen's perhaps leaving children in Lys, which could also be how Dany get's her dragon gift. She is of Targaryen blood, just not by the path that she has been taught.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Honestly Brandon/Ashara is still the only theory that makes me see red. No, Brandon didn't dishonor Ashara when he knew Eddard was interested in her. He asked Ashara to dance with Eddard, not himself. Plus Robb parallel makes more sense with Eddard too. Ned would dishonor a lady and not mary her, choosing a political match, Robb dishonor a lady and marries her, throwing down an alliance instead. I have no idea about Daenerys at the moment, I would love a thread about her childhood quotes book by book to understand how the eight/nine months gap with Jon works. Currently I am more interested in Eddard+Fisherman's daughter = Jon and Rhaella + Aerys = Aegon YG.
It seems I missed this post from months ago. Sorry.
I am currently finding Rhaella quite interesting in this mix. Could she be Dany's mother but Aerys is not the father. If so, who could the father be? I think any of the members of Aerys' Kings guard are options. Depending on the time of Dany's conception, perhaps Brandon or Rickard Stark, although it does sound like Aerys kept Rhaella pretty much under lock and key. Did she actually flee KL and then conceive? I could see several possibilities.
As to Aegon/Young Griff, perhaps he is the child that Rhaella carried in her womb from King's Landing. He must look enough like Rhaegar to convince JonCon, and in Dany's visions, it seems that Rhaeagar and Viserys looked enough alike to confuse her for a moment. I do like the idea that Young Griff could be the heir to the throne. The story seems to be setting up Aegon and Daenerys as opposites in the war for reclaiming the Targaryen throne. Dany thinks it's her right because she is the child of Aerys and Rhaella, but it would be a nice twist if Young Griff turned out to be that child. So much of Dany's arc revolves around her belief in who she is legally, what will happen if that is stripped from her? Will she rage and fight on? Honestly, Dany as a conqueror mirror's Aegon so much, and she has pretty much conquered a great deal of Essos. Why does she even need the Seven Kingdoms. Her destiny might just lie in Essos.
I am more interested in Rhaella + Arthur or Rhaella + Gerold Hightower, I am also interested in believing Rhaella is Septa Lemore, is it possible or not? When it comes to Daenaerys, I have two roads I can take, one, she is fake and a Lyseni which is really possible. But the second road is her being the daughter of Rhaegar and Elia, their third head of the dragon and I would say her mysterious Red Door is in Old Town. With her being daughter of Rhaegar, I would want Aegon to be son of Rhaegar and Elia so he would end up victorious in Game of Thrones. Were you interested in Rhaenys Alive theories? Do you think any of the Sand Snakes or hell Wynafrid Manderly could be Rhaenys instead?
I am more interested in Rhaella + Arthur or Rhaella + Gerold Hightower, I am also interested in believing Rhaella is Septa Lemore, is it possible or not? When it comes to Daenaerys, I have two roads I can take, one, she is fake and a Lyseni which is really possible. But the second road is her being the daughter of Rhaegar and Elia, their third head of the dragon and I would say her mysterious Red Door is in Old Town. With her being daughter of Rhaegar, I would want Aegon to be son of Rhaegar and Elia so he would end up victorious in Game of Thrones. Were you interested in Rhaenys Alive theories? Do you think any of the Sand Snakes or hell Wynafrid Manderly could be Rhaenys instead?
Yes, I also think that Daenerys could be the third child of Rhaegar and Elia, mostly based on the idea that Dany's mother died in childbirth and we have been told that if Elia conceived a third child, she would die. I actually think it's quite a good idea. There is no reason to think that Rhaella would die in childbirth as we have heard nothing about her even having difficulty with any pregnancies or labors. I think we have discussed this line of idea's before. But in this case, I am not sure that Young Griff is actually Aegon or not.
As to Dany, I can see the possibility of many parentage options, and also just being a slave plucked out of a house in Lys. For a long time, I was strongly attached to Rhaegar and Ashara being her parents, but even on that I don't feel as strongly anymore.
There are also hints and aspects of Dany that scream Stark imagery, ice imagery, wolf imagery and I know that GRRM can't be doing that by accident, so what is that all about. Stark blood, perhaps? IF there is an R+L child, Dany is probably the best bet.
As to Rhaella having a child with Dayne or Hightower, it would be interesting genetic connections, but Hightower seems too loyal to Aerys to have an affair with Rhaella. Dayne, I am not so sure about. We really know very little about any of these players. But both the Hightowers and Danye's seem to be hinted at to us with their purple eyes and blondish hair as being similar in coloring to the Targaryen's. Lynesse Hightower even seems to look like Dany, at least according to Jorah, so a possible blood connection could be hinted at.
As to whether Rhaenys lived or not, I do think it's possible. I am trying to remember what thread I discussed all the possibilities with the Sand Snakes, based on their ages and descriptions. I will try to find the link. Personally, I like Arianne for Rhaenys. She is supposedly Doran's eldest but he doesn't plan to let her rule Dorne. I think it's because he thinks she is the true queen of Westeros because she is Rhaegar and Elia's eldest child, and heir to the throne based on Dornish law. I think it's possible that a young Rhaenys was swapped before the Rebellion even started or at least early in the rebellion. I think she is the reason that Rhaegar was in the south and had to return from the south to fight at the Trident. The Water Gardens in Dorne seem like the perfect place to organize a baby swap. The age discrepancy between Rhaenys and Arianne is the shadiest part of my theory.
If Rhaella is Lemore, do you think that's indication that Rhaella always had dark hair, or that she dyes it? Tyrion is bad at judging ages, but he thinks Lemore is over 40 in age, but it can't be by much or he would say she was close to 50 or something. But Rhaella would be 55-56 years old, and that seems like too big of an age gape for Tyrion to confuse. I think that Elia fits Lemore's description better, but I don't see much to make me think that Elia did not die at some point. Oberyn's rage about her fate seems real to me.
Last Edit: Feb 4, 2020 14:39:43 GMT by stdaga: clarification and spelling ... oops!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Yes, several of the Sand Snakes could be possible and would work better age wise, but Rhaenys had the kitten named Balerion and she was said to be hiding under a bed when Amory Lorach found her. Arianne crawls from her bed, "weak as a kitten" and she has some dragon imagery, in books, in cyvasse pieces (this is a black dragon like Balerion was) and in association with her affair with Arys Oakheart. I would be utterly convinced if not for the age difference between Arianne and Rhaenys, although honestly the age difference doesn't really derail my tinfoil. And the story seems to be setting up Arianne, fAegon and Daenerys up for some sort of interaction. It could mirror Rhaenys, Aegon I and Visenya.
As to the Sand Snakes, the younger four that Oberyn had with Elaria Sand are all too young to be Rhaenys, as I think the eldest of those girls is 13 or so, being born in 285/286.
The four older daughters are all interesting. I'm going with the wiki for their ages because I am too lazy to research that myself right now. Rhaenys was said to be born in 280, the same year that Rhaegar and Elia were wed.
Obara Sand is the eldest and is born in 271/272. She has brown hair and a mannish look. Just age wise, I think she is too old to be a stand in for Rhaenys.
Nymeria Sand is said to be born in 274/275, which also makes her old to fit the age of Rhaenys, but she is an interesting possibility anyway. She is quite beautiful, has dark hair and dark eyes (and Rhaenys was said to have taken after her Dornish mother in looks). She is elegant but has a love and talent with knives and she has a vengeance in her heart for the Lannister's, especially Tywin. Of course, most of Westeros knows that Tywin was responsible for Elia's death. I think, even despite her age, Nymeria could be an interesting possibility.
Tyene Sand is said to be born in 276/277, so her age would be closer, but she is golden haired and blue eyed. I guess this coloring could come from Rhaegar, but it doesn't fit what we know of a young Rhaenys, who had dark hair and eyes. Also, Tyene's mother is known to Arianne, which makes Tyene unlikely to be the hidden princess.
Sarella Sand is said to be born in 280, which makes her the perfect age to be Rhaenys. But Sarella has a mother from the summer islands, so she should be quite dark in coloring. Now, this might be a false assumption, although I really think that Alleras is Sarella, being the right age and right color to be Sarella. This fits with Doran saying that Sarella is out of Dorne, therefore he has no ability to imprison her with the other Sand Snakes.
Of these eldest four girls, I think Nymeria is the best fit, both in coloring, in beauty and she has that definite need for revenge against the Lannister's, but she and Arianne (born in 276) are the same age, and therefore I would just as likely think Arianne is the hidden princess. Of course, if Arianne is Rhaenys, then were is the real Arianne?
I do like the possibility of Nymeria if Rhaenys is alive and disguised as a Sand Snake. Nymeria has the queen imagery all over her, based on Nymeria of the Rhoynar, and queen imagery certainly fit's the eldest child of the crown prince. I could see GRRM taking this step with her, if it is Rhaenys. Of course, we also have the Nymeria imagery with Arya's direwolf, which would not link to a Targaryen born to be queen, but I do think it ties to a Stark who might be destined to be a queen. A warrior queen. GRRM could be using this "Nymeria" imagery in multiple ways.
As to Arianne, whom I still think is a great option for a disguised Rhaenys, besides her age being several years older than Rhaenys should be, another thing that might not quite fit for Arianne is that Areo Hotah seems to see some of Mellario in Arianne, which is that they are both short, petite. But that's all we know of Mellario of Norvos. Much of Mellario's story doesn't quite make sense to me, which does make me wonder if there is some cover up regarding her or Arianne. We are told that Mellario was so upset about Quentyn's being fostered away that it drove a wedge between her and Doran. Then we hear that he wanted to send Arianne to Tyrosh to be a cup bearer, but Mellario said she would leave him if he sent their daughter away. So, Doran doesn't send Arianne to Tyrosh, but in the end, Mellario still leaves Doran and therefore she leave Arianne and Trystane also. So her major protest included not wanting to be separated from her children, but then she chooses to be separated anyway??? That isn't logical to me. Which makes me wonder if Arianne did get sent to Tyrosh and Mellario chose to leave her husband at that time (and this gives us a good time for the real Arianne to be fostered away while the impostor Rhaenys fit's into her cousin's role. Or, Mellario actually went with the real Arianne when she was sent either to Tyrosh or perhaps back to Norvos with her mother. Because the real Arianne has to be somewhere, even if her cousin stepped into her role as a way to protect her from the people who might want a Targaryen heir dead.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
As most of you know I spend much of my time looking for hidden Targs and i think i found one in Dorne . I believe Rhaella had an affair with Oberyn Martell and their child was born in 274 . His name was Jaehaerys and he was reported to have died later that year . However , i believe that infant was born with a dark streak of hair which was a clear sign that she had cheated on Aerys . Fearing for the child's life and her own , Rhaella confides in her close friend, The Princess of Dorne , and the baby is smuggled to Dorne for his protection . That child grows up as Gerold Dayne . I believe Rhaegar himself brought his baby brother to Starfall in 274 and returned to KL after stopping in the Stormlands at Lord Connington's Castle . The timeline matches for Oberyn being around to be his father as he fought his duel with Lord Yronwood in 274 when he was 16 . This is why Doran calls him the most dangerous man in Dorne . I will provide several quotes to back up my theory and support its viability . Any takers out there ? Could this be part of Doran's master plan in your opinion ? If Oberyn is his father , this could explain why Oberyn never kills him as Daemon wonders . Perhaps this is when Rhaegar met Arthur Dayne and became best buddies ? We know Rhaegar was in Dorne around this time according to Jon Connington .
stdaga about Rhaenys being Elia, I think another problem is the fact Arianne supposed to favor her mother but she doesn't look like Elia since she is curvier.
canitryto about babies of Rhaella, I have wrote about her getting rid of babies to stop PTWP prophecy. And I have also posted about possible identities of the babies. I believe Ashara could be Shaena, since Daynes of old don't look Valyrian, only Ashara, Gerold and Edric do. Jaehaerys could be Gerris Drinkwater, his description and age fits, also he is called false coin by Barristan and Westeros coins are dragons. Daeron is confusing, he is born in 269ac but his death is never listed at the wiki, and there is another unnamed baby born in 270ac dying on 271ac. And in 272ac Rhaella gives birth to Aegon, the same year Yandel is left at Citadel's door. Coincidence?
stdaga about Rhaenys being Elia, I think another problem is the fact Arianne supposed to favor her mother but she doesn't look like Elia since she is curvier.
canitryto about babies of Rhaella, I have wrote about her getting rid of babies to stop PTWP prophecy. And I have also posted about possible identities of the babies. I believe Ashara could be Shaena, since Daynes of old don't look Valyrian, only Ashara, Gerold and Edric do. Jaehaerys could be Gerris Drinkwater, his description and age fits, also he is called false coin by Barristan and Westeros coins are dragons. Daeron is confusing, he is born in 269ac but his death is never listed at the wiki, and there is another unnamed baby born in 270ac dying on 271ac. And in 272ac Rhaella gives birth to Aegon, the same year Yandel is left at Citadel's door. Coincidence?
We don't really know what Elia was built like, although it seems she was frail, something that Arianne certainly isn't. I think Cersei describes Elia as flat-chested, but Cersei is a bitch and was jealous of Rhaegar's wife, so who knows if this is true or not. And motherhood could have altered Elia's figure. Arianne is certainly curvy, but she claims she was pudgy and flat-chested as a child. Arianne is also bold. It's hard to imagine that Oberyn Martell could have a full-blooded sister who wasn't a little bit bold. She got herself a royal prince, after all.
We have no idea what Mellario looks like, only that Areo thinks that Arianne's short height comes from her mother. No description of how any people of Norvos look in regards to hair, eye or skin coloring. Areo Hotah is from Norvos and his hair is white, but it is lightened from age and was dark in his youth. But is that common for all people from Norvos? Areo tells us that one of the things that first bothered him about Dorne was the bright, hot sun, something unlike Norvos, where he and Mellario came from. I would expect the people of Norvos might be fair in coloring, perhaps like people from northern Europe, such as Scandinavia and the Baltic's. Some people have dark hair, but many are light headed.
I have some tinfoild that Gerris Drinkwater is the real Quentyn Martell. One of the reasons he is so angry about Quentyn's death is because Gerris knows the truth but Quentyn did not, leading to Quentyn's major misstep with the dragons. I admit it's pretty much all speculation and will probably not be correct, but Gerris' anger over Quentyn's death is almost irrational. And how Barristan thinks that if Quentyn had looked like Gerris, then Daenerys would probably have married him. The who mud vs fire concept. Gerris' hair coloring certainly could fit a Targaryen. His sun-steaked, sandy blond hair could fit the Targayren's, but he has blue-green eyes, and so far, I don't know that we have any blue-green eyed Targaryen's, unless we are talking about Shiera Seastar, who had one of each, and not a combination of both. Barristan thinks of Gerris as "false coin" so even if that could be an allusion to the dragon coin, it would be a false representation. But I agree there is something false about Gerris Drinkwater!
ETA: I just wanted to add that there is a famous Rhoynarish prince who was associated with Norvos in the past. He was Garris the Grey of Ny Sar, and I think this could be a nod to our current Gerris's connection to both the Rhoynar and Norvos!
Last Edit: Feb 5, 2020 16:06:07 GMT by stdaga: ETA and clarification
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
stdaga about Rhaenys being Elia, I think another problem is the fact Arianne supposed to favor her mother but she doesn't look like Elia since she is curvier.
canitryto about babies of Rhaella, I have wrote about her getting rid of babies to stop PTWP prophecy. And I have also posted about possible identities of the babies. I believe Ashara could be Shaena, since Daynes of old don't look Valyrian, only Ashara, Gerold and Edric do. Jaehaerys could be Gerris Drinkwater, his description and age fits, also he is called false coin by Barristan and Westeros coins are dragons. Daeron is confusing, he is born in 269ac but his death is never listed at the wiki, and there is another unnamed baby born in 270ac dying on 271ac. And in 272ac Rhaella gives birth to Aegon, the same year Yandel is left at Citadel's door. Coincidence?
We don't really know what Elia was built like, although it seems she was frail, something that Arianne certainly isn't. I think Cersei describes Elia as flat-chested, but Cersei is a bitch and was jealous of Rhaegar's wife, so who knows if this is true or not. And motherhood could have altered Elia's figure. Arianne is certainly curvy, but she claims she was pudgy and flat-chested as a child. Arianne is also bold. It's hard to imagine that Oberyn Martell could have a full-blooded sister who wasn't a little bit bold. She got herself a royal prince, after all.
We have no idea what Mellario looks like, only that Areo thinks that Arianne's short height comes from her mother. No description of how any people of Norvos look in regards to hair, eye or skin coloring. Areo Hotah is from Norvos and his hair is white, but it is lightened from age and was dark in his youth. But is that common for all people from Norvos? Areo tells us that one of the things that first bothered him about Dorne was the bright, hot sun, something unlike Norvos, where he and Mellario came from. I would expect the people of Norvos might be fair in coloring, perhaps like people from northern Europe, such as Scandinavia and the Baltic's. Some people have dark hair, but many are light headed.
I have some tinfoild that Gerris Drinkwater is the real Quentyn Martell. One of the reasons he is so angry about Quentyn's death is because Gerris knows the truth but Quentyn did not, leading to Quentyn's major misstep with the dragons. I admit it's pretty much all speculation and will probably not be correct, but Gerris' anger over Quentyn's death is almost irrational. And how Barristan thinks that if Quentyn had looked like Gerris, then Daenerys would probably have married him. The who mud vs fire concept. Gerris' hair coloring certainly could fit a Targaryen. His sun-steaked, sandy blond hair could fit the Targayren's, but he has blue-green eyes, and so far, I don't know that we have any blue-green eyed Targaryen's, unless we are talking about Shiera Seastar, who had one of each, and not a combination of both. Barristan thinks of Gerris as "false coin" so even if that could be an allusion to the dragon coin, it would be a false representation. But I agree there is something false about Gerris Drinkwater!
ETA: I just wanted to add that there is a famous Rhoynarish prince who was associated with Norvos in the past. He was Garris the Grey of Ny Sar, and I think this could be a nod to our current Gerris's connection to both the Rhoynar and Norvos!
Wow didn't remember about Arianne being flat, and your words about Elias's boldness is interesting too. Her namesake is a Lyanna clone after all. Gerris' connection to Rhoynar and Norvos is interesting too! I most certainly liked the idea of Gerris being Jaehaerys but that's because I am not interested in fake/real Quentyn discourse, as I said I am not that interested in Martells sans Elia.
• Brandon went straight to his dead when Lyanna was abducted; Jon went straight to his when “Arya” was abducted from Winterfell.
When Lyanna was kidnapped Brandon goes to King's Landing to "Rhaegar come out and die" and this is exactly Jon's reaction when he finds out that Joffrey killed Ned. He wanted to go to King's Landing to "stick the sword in Joffrey's throat"