I wanted to toss this one out there. It's a little outta left field, but it has some bones. Purple-eyed Ashara and purple-eyed Rhaegar sittin in a tree....
Of course, Jon doesn't have purple eyes, but he looks Dornish. And Ashara's Dornish...
Rhaegar wouldn't be the first guy to hook up with his best friend's sister...
If Rhaegar wanted/needed a third head to complete the dragon trifecta, why not snag the lovely Ashara with Targ-like eyes?
A Dragon-Sword of the Morning would be pretty badass.
Was the Ned/Ashara/Wylla love triangle actually a swinger party at Starfall? Were those "sweet Dornish whines" the sounds of orgy? Did Jon's mother even know who the father was?
Ok... I'll stop now... LOL
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there was either a Rhaegar+Ashara or an Aeys+Ashara out there. I just don't think it's Jon. Jon had to get Stark features from somewhere, so in my mind that narrows it down to at least one parent being either Rickard, Brandon, Ned, Lyanna or Benjen. Or at the very least a more distant Stark relative...
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there was either a Rhaegar+Ashara or an Aeys+Ashara out there. I just don't think it's Jon. Jon had to get Stark features from somewhere, so in my mind that narrows it down to at least one parent being either Rickard, Brandon, Ned, Lyanna or Benjen. Or at the very least a more distant Stark relative...
Agreed. Are you thinking Dany?
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.
his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads."
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
I'm not 100% sure what to think about that. I honestly would suspect that something was going on either prior to, or started at Harrenhall. But that would be way too old to be Dany. The only other person that would seem halfway probable is Allyria. Unless we go totally off the rails and assume that this either relationship or rape as the case may be went on for an extended period of time and maybe Dany was a second pregnancy?
We all know there is a missing piece (at least one if not more) in the whole Lyanna abduction scenario. I've been inclined for some time now to think that piece might be Aerys. I feel like I'm starting to get the puzzle pieces in some semblance of order in my mind, but I'm not positive they actually fit together where I'm putting them or if I've just created a couple extra pieces to make it work. I haven't done a full reread recently and sometimes wonder if my instincts are being influenced by the works themselves or other forum members ideas and theories. If it's the later I may have enough ideas to write my own book by the time this is all over.
Btw. Two things...
Do you know what's going on with the chapter one reread? Is WP just swamped as of late or have you all abandoned it? I did post the next couple paragraphs to try to be helpful, but haven't gotten back to say anything about them. Excited to look at them , though, because it's after the execution when it's colder and the wind stops.
I'm also trying to motivate myself back into a reread so I opened a file for the prologue and posted the first couple paragraphs of text. I'd really like to do it the way you all started chapter one and look at some of the parallels in the two. There is just so much in there. Any interest? I really enjoy hearing your take on things...
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.
his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads."
This HotU reread is what made me want to post this crackpot.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …
This was in the back of my mind also. Mayhaps Barry was more right about her than he knew. There aren't too many people in Martin's world said to resemble Ashara Dayne. I believe Dany is the only one.
Do you know what's going on with the chapter one reread? Is WP just swamped as of late or have you all abandoned it? I did post the next couple paragraphs to try to be helpful, but haven't gotten back to say anything about them. Excited to look at them , though, because it's after the execution when it's colder and the wind stops.
I totally lost track of that thread! My apologies! I think WP is swamped, and I've been a bit distracted with the HotU reread...
I'm also trying to motivate myself back into a reread so I opened a file for the prologue and posted the first couple paragraphs of text. I'd really like to do it the way you all started chapter one and look at some of the parallels in the two. There is just so much in there. Any interest? I really enjoy hearing your take on things...
Ooh nice indeed! Sooo much there, I agree. I'll check it out asap.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.
his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads."
This HotU reread is what made me want to post this crackpot.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Sometimes when the queen looked at him, he felt as if he were looking at Ashara's daughter …
This was in the back of my mind also. Mayhaps Barry was more right about her than he knew. There aren't too many people in Martin's world said to resemble Ashara Dayne. I believe Dany is the only one.
Do you know what's going on with the chapter one reread? Is WP just swamped as of late or have you all abandoned it? I did post the next couple paragraphs to try to be helpful, but haven't gotten back to say anything about them. Excited to look at them , though, because it's after the execution when it's colder and the wind stops.
I totally lost track of that thread! My apologies! I think WP is swamped, and I've been a bit distracted with the HotU reread...
I'm also trying to motivate myself back into a reread so I opened a file for the prologue and posted the first couple paragraphs of text. I'd really like to do it the way you all started chapter one and look at some of the parallels in the two. There is just so much in there. Any interest? I really enjoy hearing your take on things...
Ooh nice indeed! Sooo much there, I agree. I'll check it out asap.
Some very nice quotes from markg171! Does make a nice case for Dany being Rhaegar's. I was originally more inclined to link Ashara to Aerys, with Rhaegar as a second choice, but I think looking at these quotes, I'm inclined to reverse that opinion. Also, I would think that the whole baby swap thing with Gilly wasn't the first time something like this occurred. This is possibly another example, and, as much as I hate to admit it, might give credence to the whole "lemongate" thing.
If something like this did happen, it could tie into several of the threads currently going on this board. I'm getting little pieces of it from each of them, especially the Harrenhall tournament, the HotU reread and the William Darry threads. I'm willing to bet that both Jon and Dany's identities are tied up with one another. I'm also wondering if Dany might not be the result of a second pregnancy for Ashara?
I keep thinking that Ashara was raped while Arthur was forced to turn a blind eye. She confided everything in Ned. As a threat to keep the Starks silent, he crowned Lyanna QoLaB. Aerys knew that Rhaegar was involved with someone and when Rhaegar crowned Lyanna, Aerys assumed that it was her. Fast forward a little bit and now Aerys is trying to find leverage over Rhaegar, remembers the crowning and thinks that if he takes Lyanna, he can use her to have a hold over Rhaegar. Rhaegar, being the overly chivalrous guy he is takes off to find Lyanna before the whole thing blows up. However, Brandon, who was not aware of the whole Ashara thing, didn't realize the significance of the crowning and really thought that the 22 year old pervert was truly after his 14 year old sister, hence, slight overreaction. By the time Rhaegar actually finds Lyanna, the whole thing has already blown up. Benjen may have been aware and not shared this information with his father and brother, leading to his sense of guilt over the whole thing. It would explain why it was so easy for Hightower to find Rhaegar. Aerys would certainly know where he had ordered Lyanna taken. It would explain why Aerys was so concerned about the Dornish turning against them. Maybe they were all hidden at Starfall with a pregnant Ashara. Could be that Viserys was there at some point too? Lots of loose ends and threads might just be able to be tied into a big old Dornish bow? But, I'm starting to ramble now, even more than usual...
I think we've all been pretty distracted lately. Lately, I've felt like a little kid at Christmas with all these great topics. Seems like there's always something new and shiny right around the corner. And they all seem to tie into one another! I opened the prologue thread and still haven't had a chance to do anything with it. I hope to at least do a quick read through tonight.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I'm excited about that one too, but have I even cracked a book to look at it? No, of course not... ::freakout::
Not to make excuses, but, it could have something to do with the fact that my head has felt like ::headsmash:: all week too...
I just sent a pm to @serduncan, telling him how exhausted I am, but I'm fighting it. After complaining all week about being an insomniac. ::frustrated:: And good use of smilies!
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
If something like this did happen, it could tie into several of the threads currently going on this board. I'm getting little pieces of it from each of them, especially the Harrenhall tournament, the HotU reread and the William Darry threads. I'm willing to bet that both Jon and Dany's identities are tied up with one another. I'm also wondering if Dany might not be the result of a second pregnancy for Ashara?
I've been wondering the same. Well, not exactly. But that Red Door sure sounds like Red Dorne. And the lemon tree. And Ashara's suicide is hard to understand in any scenario. Maybe it has always been a Star Wars revelation on the horizon.
Maybe they were all hidden at Starfall with a pregnant Ashara.
In terms of Jon's birth, all roads lead to Starfall. For me at least. As much as I like the idea of Jon=Stark+Dayne, there has to be another Dragonhead rolling around somewhere. Mayhaps it's this crackpot? Or A+J=T?
Right so I got a chance to read this now and I have to say I doubt very much it's Jon that Rhaegar and Ashara had. Dany is a much better fit.
A few points that sprang to mind while reading this:-
The man that dishonoured Ashara and caused her to turn to Stark. Could very well be Rhaegar and that would be a good reason to turn to Ned or Brandon. If she had been having an extramarital affair with Rhaegar and found out she was pregnant, then watched as baby daddy gave the crown to Lyanna, she might well have approached one of them to warn Lyanna that he's a cheating bastard.
If not the above scenario, then there must be a reason why Ashara left Elia's service as maid in waiting. Perhaps Elia found out that the two were having an affair and sent Ashara away.
The only contact we see between Ashara and the Starks is when Brandon asks her to dance with Ned. This doesn't sound like the beginning of a great love affair to me. Sounds more like Brandon and Ashara already knew each other and Brandon decided to give his little brother a thrill. Gross maybe, but Brandon we know had few scruples when it came to women, and Dornish women are not like the rest of Westeros.
Aerys holding Elia hostage to secure Dorne's loyalty is a bit of a puzzler. What is he worried about when Doran's grandchildren are in line for the throne? Was there a reason he would have doubted them when one of his KGs was related to Doran as well? Why hold Elia and not Lewyn when he held Jaime to ensure Tywin's loyalty? If he doubted them, why send the uncle and great uncle that would have nothing to lose if he betrayed them to lead his troops?
And then I remembered that Martin confirmed Dany's father is indeed Aerys, which throws this all out the window. Grr.
LOL!
But R+A=J is still in the running!
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Yeah I was thinking of adding that one to the board. I know we've discussed it in more than one place here and that Armstark is a big proponent of Aerys and Lyanna being Jon's parents too. I've been thinking this for years now. I've always doubted that it was Rhaegar that kidnapped her. Not his style really. Why kidnap when he had other girls all sighing after him? And it's not like there weren't any number of females of northern lineage that could've filled the Ice and Fire requirement if that indeed is what he was after.
But the Starks are special, they are descendants of the Kings of Winter! Why do you suppose Martell says the vengeance, justice, fire and blood line? I know he wants to avenge Elia, but fire and blood are the house words of Targaryen.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones