Yeah i am 90% sure the kidnapping was done by someone else,possibly pulling a Loras as Renly type scenario. I think the plan was hatched at the Harrenhal tourney.
I think Rhaegar's actions showed one thing...how easy it is to set Brandon on fire he had to be restrained from attacking Rhaegar.So think the Lyanna situation was to ignite Brandon and urge him to act foolishly which he did.They needed something that made it look like the rebellion was on the up an up.Rescuing a loved one makes for a better tale.
I believe Rhaegar had nothing to do with Lyanna's disappearnece but he was and became the scapegoat for it...poor fool didn't know shit.
I have three picks for Lya's diappearence myself. Aerys,Littlefinger or Tywin. They all had varous motives.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Not only that, @serduncan, but in that HotU chapter that I'm rereading all alone (looking at you Mojo and @prettypig) Rhaegar believes "Aegon" is the prince that was promised, and that "his is the song of ice and fire"... So this cannot be used as motivation for his abduction of Lyanna, bedding of Lyanna, etc. Unless... Jon=Aegon
Yeah i am 90% sure the kidnapping was done by someone else,possibly pulling a Loras as Renly type scenario. I think the plan was hatched at the Harrenhal tourney.
I think Rhaegar's actions showed one thing...how easy it is to set Brandon on fire he had to be restrained from attacking Rhaegar.So think the Lyanna situation was to ignite Brandon and urge him to act foolishly which he did.They needed something that made it look like the rebellion was on the up an up.Rescuing a loved one makes for a better tale.
I believe Rhaegar had nothing to do with Lyanna's disappearnece but he was and became the scapegoat for it...poor fool didn't know shit.
I have three picks for Lya's diappearence myself. Aerys,Littlefinger or Tywin. They all had varous motives.
My personal preference, for no definable reason, is Aerys. I hadn't thought about Tywin, but definitely agree that he could have motive. I really think that Littlefinger would have been too young at the time. Not that he didn't have reason to do something like this, but I'm not sure if he would have had the support/means to do something like this at that point. He's always been clever, but he couldn't have been more than about 15 at the time.
For Rhaegar to have done this, no matter what his reason, he would have to be either incredibly stupid or at the very least quite shortsighted. This completely contradicts the image of Rhaegar that has been given thus far.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
If something like this did happen, it could tie into several of the threads currently going on this board. I'm getting little pieces of it from each of them, especially the Harrenhall tournament, the HotU reread and the William Darry threads. I'm willing to bet that both Jon and Dany's identities are tied up with one another. I'm also wondering if Dany might not be the result of a second pregnancy for Ashara?
I've been wondering the same. Well, not exactly. But that Red Door sure sounds like Red Dorne. And the lemon tree. And Ashara's suicide is hard to understand in any scenario. Maybe it has always been a Star Wars revelation on the horizon.
Maybe they were all hidden at Starfall with a pregnant Ashara.
In terms of Jon's birth, all roads lead to Starfall. For me at least. As much as I like the idea of Jon=Stark+Dayne, there has to be another Dragonhead rolling around somewhere. Mayhaps it's this crackpot? Or A+J=T?
I'm excited about that one too, but have I even cracked a book to look at it? No, of course not...
Uh huh... Apparently I'm the only one actually reading this chapter! LOL
It's funny. The longer I'm on these forums, the more the crazy ideas start to make sense. I originally thought "lemongate" was absolutely insane. But, the more I look at it, the more likely that it becomes. It really would help to explain certain things.
I'm still finding it less than likely for there to be twins, but anything is possible. It might be less complicated than what I have going on in my mind. That is, a baby swap of epic proportions containing at the very least Jon and Dany, with the possibility of a third unnamed or dead child involved as well. I just hope someone's there to catch me as I fall into the crazy face first.
I agree with Starfall. Something important happened there. Although, I'm also inclined to believe that the Quiet Isle fits in the story somehow as well. Why else show us the cabins used for childbirth?.
Can't say that I ever cared much for A+J=T, but it certainly is plausible, and made even more so by the WB. I always liked A+J=C+J better, but I think that ship has sailed. It just seemed poetic after Jaime's dream of his mother, but I think that the interpretation of the dream was meant to be more subtle. Tywin wanted those things for his kids so that they wouldn't be laughed at. However, even though Cersei is a queen and Jaime is a brave knight, they have still placed themselves in a position to be the brunt of jokes.
If I ever quit posting tonight, might be I'll have a chance to start the HotU chapter. I have it bookmarked and everything. But once again, I'm a kid in a candy shop.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
I really think that Littlefinger would have been too young at the time. Not that he didn't have reason to do something like this, but I'm not sure if he would have had the support/means to do something like this at that point. He's always been clever, but he couldn't have been more than about 15 at the time.
15 yes, but I believe that is old enough to be able to plant the rumor that Rhaegar did it. That is with an assumption (of course) that he was at HH to see Brandons reaction or heard about it some how. What better way to get back at Brandon for his zipper front chest. If so it worked far better than he hoped for, or was all he hoped for. Catelyn mentions a letter from Litterfinger after Brandons death
Last Edit: Aug 10, 2016 0:02:16 GMT by giyuga: additional information
I really think that Littlefinger would have been too young at the time. Not that he didn't have reason to do something like this, but I'm not sure if he would have had the support/means to do something like this at that point. He's always been clever, but he couldn't have been more than about 15 at the time.
15 yes, but I believe that is old enough to be able to plant the rumor that Rhaegar did it. That is with an assumption (of course) that he was at HH to see Brandons reaction or heard about it some how. What better way to get back at Brandon for his zipper front chest. If so it worked far better than he hoped for, or was all he hoped for. Catelyn mentions a letter from Litterfinger after Brandons death
15?! He was born in 268. He would have been 12 turning 13 in 281.
15?! He was born in 268. He would have been 12 turning 13 in 281
As per WoIaF 281 was the year of the false spring. Catelyn (GoT pg 167 TPB)"When it was announced that I was to wed Brandon Stark, Petyr challenged for the right to my hand. It was madness. Brandon was twenty, Petyr was scarcely fifteen". Not sure of the timeline but this was surely before the supposed kidnap of Lyanna. That is where I got the age I was going by.
15?! He was born in 268. He would have been 12 turning 13 in 281
As per WoIaF 281 was the year of the false spring. Catelyn (GoT pg 167 TPB)"When it was announced that I was to wed Brandon Stark, Petyr challenged for the right to my hand. It was madness. Brandon was twenty, Petyr was scarcely fifteen". Not sure of the timeline but this was surely before the supposed kidnap of Lyanna. That is where I got the age I was going by.
That's a mistake. Petyr is still "shy of 30" in AGOT in 298.
Double checking the TL when the duel took place, it was when Brandon was 20 (and he was born in 262), that pushes the duel back to 282, which means Lyanna was abducted before the duel took place.
Additionally "scarcely 15" could also mean he was 14, nearly 15. But, Petyr can't be both 15 at Brandon's duel, and not yet 30 in 298, ergot, he wasn't exactly 15, but younger.