The thread for all the random passages in the books that stand out to you for whatever reason.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
A few tents were still standing on the far side of the camp, and it was there they found Mance Rayder. Beneath his slashed cloak of black wool and red silk he wore black ringmail and shaggy fur breeches, and on his head was a great bronze-and-iron helm with raven wings at either temple.
What is Mance Rayder doing sporting a helm with raven wings while being King-beyond-the-Wall? Given the disdain the free folk have for the Night's Watch, you'd think that he'd try and avoid reminding them that he used to be a brother of the Night's Watch.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
A few tents were still standing on the far side of the camp, and it was there they found Mance Rayder. Beneath his slashed cloak of black wool and red silk he wore black ringmail and shaggy fur breeches, and on his head was a great bronze-and-iron helm with raven wings at either temple.
What is Mance Rayder doing sporting a helm with raven wings while being King-beyond-the-Wall? Given the disdain the free folk have for the Night's Watch, you'd think that he'd try and avoid reminding them that he used to be a brother of the Night's Watch.
Hmmm bronze and iron were used by the first men. Maybe he uses his knowledge of being a former Night's Watch member to his advantage and tells the free folk that his knowledge of the Nights Watch will help to defeat them. Or he really like that helmet haha.
None is fit to sit the Seastone Chair, much less the Iron Throne. No, to make an heir that's worthy of him, I need a different woman. When the kraken weds the dragon, brother, let all the world beware."
Who exactly is the "him" that Euron is convinced he needs to make an heir for? Doesn't seem like he's talking about making an heir for himself as he says "I" immediately afterwards. So it sounds like Euron is working for someone
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Could be, but the helm seems fairly impractical. Barristan refuses to wear his dragon helm in battle as he fears that the wings will catch an axe or sword while he's fighting. I'd imagine that this helm with raven wings likely suffers from the same problem. Seems weird that a superb warrior like Mance wouldn't also be worried that this helm will be a hindrance in a fight like Barristan feared his would.
Then there's also the metal that it's composed of. Mance wears this helm while he's preparing to fight the Night's Watch... who have steel weapons. A bronze and iron helm isn't going to offer much protection against a steel weapon.
All in all it's a weird choice of helm
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Could be, but the helm seems fairly impractical. Barristan refuses to wear his dragon helm in battle as he fears that the wings will catch an axe or sword while he's fighting. I'd imagine that this helm with raven wings likely suffers from the same problem. Seems weird that a superb warrior like Mance wouldn't also be worried that this helm will be a hindrance in a fight like Barristan feared his would.
Then there's also the metal that it's composed of. Mance wears this helm while he's preparing to fight the Night's Watch... who have steel weapons. A bronze and iron helm isn't going to offer much protection against a steel weapon.
All in all it's a weird choice of helm
It could hold sentimental value to Mance? This one is difficult I must admit.
one of the Ironborn - I think Dagmer Cleftjaw - also sports a helmet with raven wings.
Bluetooth does and he also happens to have a pregnant wife
"Has my lord prince begun choosing his crew?" Esgred asked as they made their way toward the stable. "Ho, Bluetooth," she shouted to a passing seafarer, a tall man in bearskin vest and raven-winged helm. "How fares your bride?" "Fat with child, and talking of twins."
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
And he also won't join Theon because he's already king of his own ship
"A big man," Theon observed. "Bluetooth, was it? Should I choose him for my Sea Bitch?" "Only if you mean to insult him. Bluetooth has a sweet ship of his own."
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
The smells filled his head, alive and intoxicating; the green muddy stink of the hot pools, the perfume of rich rotting earth beneath his paws, the squirrels in the oaks. The scent of squirrel made him remember the taste of hot blood and the way the bones would crack between his teeth. Slaver filled his mouth. He had eaten no more than half a day past, but there was no joy in dead meat, even deer. He could hear the squirrels chittering and rustling above him, safe among their leaves, but they knew better than to come down to where his brother and he were prowling. He could smell his brother too, a familiar scent, strong and earthy, his scent as black as his coat. His brother was loping around the walls, full of fury. Round and round he went, night after day after night, tireless, searching . . . for prey, for a way out, for his mother, his littermates, his pack . . . searching, searching, and never finding. Behind the trees the walls rose, piles of dead man-rock that loomed all about this speck of living wood. Speckled grey they rose, and moss-spotted, yet thick and strong and higher than any wolf could hope to leap. Cold iron and splintery wood closed off the only holes through the piled stones that hemmed them in. His brother would stop at every hole and bare his fangs in rage, but the ways stayed closed.
It makes me wonder what Shaggydog is searching for?
I also noted this morning in my Clash reread that one of the Ironborn - I think Dagmer Cleftjaw - also sports a helmet with raven wings.
?????????
Clash and white! Don't forget to start that thread again, I haven't read in 2 days, but we're on the same book.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
SSM: 3) Catelyn recalls that at Riverrun, Brandon told her that he would return soon for their wedding. Where was he going? GRRM refused to answer where Brandon was going.
On the way back he hears about Lyanna, and goes to KL with a few companions:
“Ethan Glover was Brandon’s squire,” Catelyn said. “He was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn’s nephew and heir.” (A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII)
Apart from his squire, none of Brandon's companions are from the North. Mallisters are a Riverlands house, and the other two are from the Vale, and one of them no less than the Arryn heir.
So where did Brandon go, and how did these four (well, the three who weren't his squires) end up accompanying him to KL?
Mallisters are a Riverlands house, and the other two are from the Vale, and one of them no less than the Arryn heir.
So where did Brandon go, and how did these four (well, the three who weren't his squires) end up accompanying him to KL?
Well I've long been of the opinion that Brandon visited Ned in the Vale (if not at that moment, at least at some point)
As you point out, the people he is with are slightly suspicious. Ethan is understandable as he's a northerner and Brandon's squire so he would naturally accompany him wherever. Jeffory Mallister’s a man of the Riverlands and his father would have been sworn to Brandon’s father in law Hoster Tully so he’s at least explainable as we know Brandon spent time in Riverrun so the opportunity is there for them to have met and become friends. But Kyle Royce and Elbert Arryn make no sense… unless Brandon ever visited the Vale and met them. They’re from two of the noblest families in the Vale and Ned happened to be a ward of one of their uncles. Seems the easiest solution for how Brandon came to be friends with Kyle Royce and Elbert Arryn is that he met them as he visited Ned in the Vale.
And then there's this
Littlefinger ignored the jibe. He eyed Ned with a smile on his lips that bordered on insolence. “I have hoped to meet you for some years, Lord Stark. No doubt Lady Catelyn has mentioned me to you.” “She has,” Ned replied with a chill in his voice. The sly arrogance of the comment rankled him. “I understand you knew my brother Brandon as well.” Renly Baratheon laughed. Varys shuffled over to listen. “Rather too well,” Littlefinger said. “I still carry a token of his esteem. Did Brandon speak of me too?” “Often, and with some heat,” Ned said, hoping that would end it. He had no patience with this game they played, this dueling with words.
Brandon used to often speak to Ned of Littlefinger pissing him off. Littlefinger most famously pissed off Brandon when he challenged him for Catelyn and that's what sparks Ned's comment. Seeing as Ned says that Brandon spoke of Littlefinger often, but Ned primarily lived in the Vale, then Brandon most likely told him when Ned was in the Vale. There's also a few quotes that I don't have on hand at the moment but Ned seems to know some explicit details of Brandon's duel with Littlefinger, details that Catelyn couldn't have told him as they contradict Catelyn's opinion of the duel, that suggests that Brandon visited the Vale after his duel with Littlefinger. We know that Brandon dueled Littlefinger when he was 20 according to Cat, and we know that Brandon died when he was 20 according to Ned, so it would seem to me that Brandon visited Ned sometime in the last few months of his life.
Of course, we have to ignore the app which states that Brandon left Catelyn to go meet Rickard's party that was coming down from Winterfell for his wedding and that he heard the news after he'd met Rickard and was travelling with him. But I don't place much faith in the app as it seems to contradict the book a lot and the books actually were written by GRRM.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
I agree that he almost certainly visited the Vale, and good catch about him talking about LF! I never realised the duel was so close to Brandon's death.
But then, the next question is, what was he doing there? I doubt it was just a brotherly visit. I try not to make too much of GRRMs refusal to tell where he went, but even without that, it seems odd that he'd go all the way to the Vale to visit his little bro just before his wedding ... wouldn't it make more sense for said brother to go to the wedding?
wouldn't it make more sense for said brother to go to the wedding?
I'm not sure if it's a possible explanation, but Ned doesn't seem to have been planning to attend Brandon's wedding. We know that he was in the Eyrie when Aerys called for his head after he killed Brandon and Rickard as Jon refused to give him up. And we can assume that Ned was in the Eyrie before this as Catelyn says that she never met Ned until the day of their wedding so he had never been to Riverrun and we can assume he also wasn't in Winterfell as Lyanna was in the Riverlands as she was kidnapped by Rhaegar there, Rickard had left Winterfell as he was on his way to Riverrun for the wedding, Brandon obviously had just left Riverrun for whatever reason, and Benjen was the Stark in Winterfell during the Rebellion while Ned was in the field fighting which tells me that Benjen was in Winterfell when Ned arrived to call his banners which places Benjen as the Stark in Winterfell for Brandon's wedding. So if Ned isn't in Winterfell or Riverrun, then the best explanation for his location during the days leading up to Brandon's wedding is the Eyrie.
Which means that Ned either wasn't going to Brandon's wedding or he hadn't just left for it yet though that's kind of pushing the time. I'd lean towards the first option as I don't think that Ned was particularly close to his family in those days. I believe this as Ned's fostering had ended 3 years before by this point yet he was still living in the Eyrie which means he was willingly choosing to live there over returning back home to Winterfell. Could be Brandon decided to pay him a visit and convince him to come.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
