ASOS- Ch. 37- Jaime V

Man, I got tons of notes, I think I spent at least an hour analyzing this chapter...talk about foreshadowing and info dumps! I have a bit more here, and I'll add more notes later, I didn't want to get too ahead of myself, but we learn a lot in the bath tub as well as during dinner. It really is a good chapter:



Doesn't sound too much like Rhaegar is spending time in a secret love nest with Lyanna- he's marshaling his army, so he's likely traveling or has set up camp somewhere and calling his banners.

What's this about Rhaella? Sounds like she's in extreme denial about Aerys.




Essentially Jaime and Elia are hostages...what makes him think Dorne has betrayed him?




So he voluntarily has a plan to commit suicide, and he's supposedly a raving lunatic...so why is he sending his wife and heir to safety in Dragonstone? This doesn't seem to add up, to me, but maybe it's just a plot hole, and GRRM needed a way to get Rhaella and Viserys to Dragonstone.



Why does it matter that Tywin got there first? Different outcome?



Pycelle was in on the betrayal, he admits it in Clash when he tells Tyrion all he has done has been for House Lannister...but who was he scheming with? A maester at CR? The Lannisters seem to look upon Pycelle with contempt, particularly Tywin and Tyrion.




Whoah, return from the south, eh? So Rhaegar was south of KL, because Jaime was with Aerys when this happened. Also, the reference to Lewyn Martell makes me think Rhaegar was in Dorne... and what's this business with Varys making him paranoid? He obviously knows what's up, it sounds like he may have had a hand in making Aerys believe Dorne was his enemy, except that:



So- why is Varys advising Aerys to hold back?! Varys claims he is for the realm, but surely he knows about Aerys' wildfire scheme as the master of whispers. What was he hoping to achieve with the explosion of KL?



And Bam! Lord Frey gets the bad press, but what about Late Lord Tywin? Clearly he waited to see who won...kind of like we see Lord Bolton do at their dinner a little later...



This made me think of Tyrion's meeting with the pyromancers in Clash...didn't they say they were dying out? Funny how obliging they were to Cersei and Tyrion after Jaime killed a few of them, but I guess there isn't much they can do.

Thanks, I never caught that until now, and the part about telling Martell to take command of the Dornishmen marching north, leads me to believe Rhaegar was out there gathering his army.

another thought about Tywin: about the Trident deciding him; doesn't necessarily mean he ever considered staying loyal to Aerys, he was probably going to stick with Rhaegar, if in fact there was a Rhaegar conspiracy to take over from his father.



Funny you should say that, because Jaime is starting to look at Brienne with fresh eyes, too

Ha! Bolton knows about Twincest. Yep, yep, it's an open secret, once people open their eyes, and in his heart of hearts, Tywin must know, too, no matter what he says.



Say whaaaat?! Whoah! How did I miss that Bolton was at the Twins?! This would have been after Elmar was 'dishonored' in Clash. This should of been a clue right there, but I didn't see it before, because I was too busy before, looking for Benjen. Robb doesn't seem to know Bolton has taken a bride either, which is important, because he knows he needs to win the Frey's loyalty back. Otherwise, there wouldn't of been the treating with Lame Lothar and Walder over Edmure Tully. If he knew Bolton had married a Frey, surely even Robb's frozen brain would've set off alarm bells, right? Mayhaps? Bolton+Frey= bad news. Too bad Benjen wasn't around to warn him.

ETA: whoops- I remember now someone reading his letters from his Lady wife and tossing them into the fire afterward. So this was before Elmar said he was dishonored...but I would still venture to guess Frey had a contingency plan.



Daaaaang, Roose, another omen for our distracted reader: sure, Bolton is paying a "debt", but it kinda sounds like he means the Freys pay their debts, too, particularly one owed to a King Robb Stark...



Oh Rly?! which king is that, Roosey Goosey? I think I catch your meaning, it's a funny, right? Because you gots to go for Robb, but also to kill Robb to prove your loyalty to (king) Tywin...



Ok, this is funny because as we'll see, old Roosey lies about Arya a few moments later (and also breaks an oath as we know now), but see how surprised Brienne is about Robb breaking his oath? See, it's not just evil Jaime and Roose who break oaths, but also the "honorable" guys. Like Robb Stark. And Ned. Everybody lies. Everybody.



^^ see, Jaime knows what's up, he already understands Robb is dead man walking...why were we so slow? Well, denial is supposed to be one of the stages of grief.



Yep, Frey is going to finally get to eat those darned Tullys for dinner! Hoster should never have been mean to Walder...if he'd only just gone to one of the Frey weddings. Wouldn't even give Lysa to a Frey!



So after acting affronted, Bolton here tells Brienne a pretty bold lie about Arya, which is really ironic, because had he just told the real Arya she could stay with him, she'd never have slipped through his fingers in the first place.

However, to be on board with fArya, means Littlefinger has been working on him awhile now, since LF was Jeyne Poole's keeper, right? But as we will continue to see through dinner, nothing's set in stone yet, although it's very close. Bolton still needs certain assurances.

Hey, do you know how to do quick quote for ridiculously long posts like the ones above? I think you highlight, right click, and select quick quote, and it saves all the ones you select, even if you change pages. I never do it because I'm almost never using a desktop.

but yes, Uncle Benjen has been on my mind today. I'll go pay homage

I asked voice at one point and I'm pretty sure he said to highlight the part you want and a box for quick quotes would pop up and you would click on that, but I haven't had a chance to try it as I'm usually either on my phone or kindle. The kindle makes it easier for me to pull quotes. I'll have to drag out my laptop one of these days and try it. I can always use the kindle app on it and I'm sure I'd type a whole lot faster. It takes forever on my kindle since I have to keep picking out the words. If you don't, it defaults to crazy things, but you never know for sure when the right word is going to pop up as a choice. You'd think it would be quicker, but it's not. :::

Nothing to add, enjoying your commentary, Mojo ;-)

I'm a phone person too. First off, I'm a terrible typist, self-taught as my high school only offered it in random time slots that never fit into my schedule. Secondly, I'm in the bedroom trying not to wake Mr. Morrigan with excessive light, so I don't usually have the Kindle. :::

Thanks, voice and @morrigansraven, I will come back to it. Have had some real life distractions, but hopefully I'll be back soon. My comments were carefully annotated in my ebook so I wouldn't forget this time, but imo, Robb's fate is alluded to plenty of times in this chapter, and Bolton as the villain who betrays him, but I didn't read so close before. In fact, I think Bolton was the mastermind now, not the Freys; Walder Frey was just a pazi, who obliged due to his wounded pride. Walder was guilty, of course, but I don't think he was smart enough to come up with the idea on his own.