The grey of the sky grew lighter still, and the trees and shrubs turned a dark green beneath their stoles of snow.
I think the Grey of House Stark refers to the days that never came in the Long Night. While the grey of the sky grew lighter still, it never turned blue... thus, the Others were undaunted by the tough of sunlight.
Gotta love the "stoles of snow" part too... it raises the idea of Wintery Clergymen, cloaked in Ice. Might we imagine who they might be? :::
Her connections to Winterfell kept falling down... like Lady... like her Father... like her Mother... She is the only Stark in the Seven Kingdoms, but her bridges were all laid to rest in the summer snows.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
When I read the bolded passage I thought, "is SlyWren going there?" And you did. Very nice.
With the previous discussion about Sansa stepping out during the last moments of night then returning with the dawn...
When Sansa opened her eyes again, she was on her knees. She did not remember falling. It seemed to her that the sky was a lighter shade of grey. Dawn, she thought. Another day. Another new day. It was the old days she hungered for.
YES! The old days are back again. Or coming back again. Like some of the crazy stuff I argue about Jon--the symbols are falling away and the reality behind them comes back.
Like Sansa's connection to her wolf. And to Winterfell. And to Arya--she woke all at once--like she was woken up--what for? And she was dreaming of the old days sharing a room with Arya. Which, let's face it, is not a particularly exciting dream. But it''s who she is. The direwolf sister. Dawn isn't good enough. She needs the restorative dawn. That brings back the real life. The old life.
Well, Jon would certainly be part of those old days.
Yes--and Sansa's had him on her mind, as she has had Arya. She and Arya have that dawn moment with Ned after they hear of Bran's waking. Dawn and the Starks. I need to play with this a bit more.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I love this! How could I have possibly missed it??? The question remains. Will the thief in actuality steal the moonmaid? Wouldn't be the first time, nor if we consider Val would it be the second.
Not sure. But both Arya and Sansa have "stolen" moon maid qualities. Both are in places with "moon doors"--just of different kinds. And Jon is named thief by Ygritte. Though he didn't really steal her--she chose him in the end. But the idea that the one called the thief will unite with the moon maid--seems like it wouldn't be crazy. I am one who thinks Martin intends for Sansa and Jon to end up the new "parent" Starks. But can see how it would work otherwise, too.
Did Dawn already steal into her garden though - when Ned brought home Jon "no Stark"?
Or does it hang in her garden-godswood still?
Or will BC get his wish and Jon will bed a Stark sister after all?
Yes--her garden is a godswood. And she thinks she and it are empty. But look at the castle pouring out of her as the snow fills the garden. The garden and Sansa are both full. Of memory. Of home. Of snow--pun intended (by both myself and Martin--since I am mad enough to think I know what he's thinking). So dawn--the moment of transformation and light and life--it steals in. She doesn't know it because she didn't see how full she was. Not until the snow. Like Jon--not knowing he wasn't lost until he allows himself to hope and looks back to the stars and the Wall.
I love SlyWren's interpretation of this! Sansa continues to draw strength from the cold while the others do not. She is determined to rebuild Winterfell and is completely occupied by it as Dawn returns. She is turning the old days into the new? What's with the description of Lysa's robe?
I like the bolded. She's recreating the old days. Making them new. Powerful.
On Lyssa's robe--interesting that she matches Sansa--or am I misremembering?
Her bridges are falling down. Is this symbolic of the fact that she is unable to build a bridge to return to these past memories independently? She needs LF to provide the extra strength she needs to get there? At least at the present? Her connections are not sturdy.
Her connections to Winterfell kept falling down... like Lady... like her Father... like her Mother... She is the only Stark in the Seven Kingdoms, but her bridges were all laid to rest in the summer snows.
Yes--her tie to Winterfell is still sketchy. Needs support. And Littlefinger can help with the snow castle. But am thinking Sansa's getting stronger as she goes.
Or it fits into my pet theory that Sansa will end up with Littlefinger's numbered account in Braavos. Money to rebuild the North. Hey--it's only fair.
I think the Grey of House Stark refers to the days that never came in the Long Night. While the grey of the sky grew lighter still, it never turned blue... thus, the Others were undaunted by the tough of sunlight.
Gotta love the "stoles of snow" part too... it raises the idea of Wintery Clergymen, cloaked in Ice. Might we imagine who they might be?
I like the grey idea. Plus, fits with the Starks being liminal--the space between the black of night and the light/white of Dawn. They are the transition. The hour of the wolf that brings the Dawn. Like Sansa here.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yes--her garden is a godswood. And she thinks she and it are empty. But look at the castle pouring out of her as the snow fills the garden. The garden and Sansa are both full. Of memory. Of home. Of snow--pun intended (by both myself and Martin--since I am mad enough to think I know what he's thinking). So dawn--the moment of transformation and light and life--it steals in. She doesn't know it because she didn't see how full she was. Not until the snow. Like Jon--not knowing he wasn't lost until he allows himself to hope and looks back to the stars and the Wall.
I think we're seeing the same connections.
"until the snow" is a good way of looking at the growing wolf pups. They are becoming adults now. Like their "father" before them in the turmoil of the False Spring, they are facing adversity to their House while coming of age.
But unlike their father, they are coming of age with the a winter unlike any in living memory. Winterfell has burned. Can winter burn? I think Gared would say it does.
Before I get lost on another tangent, let me just say that until the snow, the Stark pups had not yet opened their eyes. Each is strengthened by winter, braced by the cold winds, and find home/identity in the snow.
Yes--her tie to Winterfell is still sketchy. Needs support. And Littlefinger can help with the snow castle. But am thinking Sansa's getting stronger as she goes.
Agreed. I would argue she is the strongest living descendant of House Stark at the moment.
I like the grey idea. Plus, fits with the Starks being liminal--the space between the black of night and the light/white of Dawn. They are the transition. The hour of the wolf that brings the Dawn. Like Sansa here.
:::
Purple is quite liminal as well. The only difference is one color hides the sun and the other brings it.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Before I get lost on another tangent, let me just say that until the snow, the Stark pups had not yet opened their eyes. Each is strengthened by winter, braced by the cold winds, and find home/identity in the snow.
I agree. But I'm still convinced that the snow also represents memories. At the very least, in this chapter it seems to.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
“Pack the snow around a stick, Sansa.” She did not know how long he had been watching her, or when he had returned from the Vale. “A stick?” she asked. “That will give it strength enough to stand, I’d think,” Petyr said. “May I come into your castle, my lady?” Sansa was wary. “Don’t break it. Be …”“… gentle?” He smiled. “Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me. It is Winterfell, is it not?”“Yes,” Sansa admitted.
He walked along outside the walls. “I used to dream of it, in those years after Cat went north with Eddard Stark. In my dreams it was ever a dark place, and cold.”“No. It was always warm, even when it snowed. Water from the hot springs is piped through the walls to warm them, and inside the glass gardens it was always like the hottest day of summer.”She stood, towering over the great white castle. “I can’t think how to do the glass roof over the gardens.”
Littlefinger stroked his chin, where his beard had been before Lysa had asked him to shave it off. “The glass was locked in frames, no? Twigs are your answer. Peel them and cross them and use bark to tie them together into frames. I’ll show you.” He moved through the garden, gathering up twigs and sticks and shaking the snow from them. When he had enough, he stepped over both walls with a single long stride and squatted on his heels in the middle of the yard. Sansa came closer to watch what he was doing. His hands were deft and sure, and before long he had a crisscrossing latticework of twigs, very like the one that roofed the glass gardens of Winterfell. “We will need to imagine the glass, to be sure,” he said when he gave it to her.
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2015 4:35:27 GMT by Lady Dyanna
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
“Pack the snow around a stick, Sansa.” She did not know how long he had been watching her, or when he had returned from the Vale. “A stick?” she asked. “That will give it strength enough to stand, I’d think,” Petyr said. “May I come into your castle, my lady?” Sansa was wary. “Don’t break it. Be …”“… gentle?” He smiled. “Winterfell has withstood fiercer enemies than me. It is Winterfell, is it not?”“Yes,” Sansa admitted.
LF is giving Sansa lessons in how to be strong. Memories alone aren't enough to hold all of her connections with home together. The memories need to be attached to something more rigid to hold together. What do the twigs represent? Faith?
Winterfell might have withstood fiercer enemies, but Ned Stark sure didn't. What happens if/when Sansa figures that out. How gentle will she be?
He walked along outside the walls. “I used to dream of it, in those years after Cat went north with Eddard Stark. In my dreams it was ever a dark place, and cold.”“No. It was always warm, even when it snowed. Water from the hot springs is piped through the walls to warm them, and inside the glass gardens it was always like the hottest day of summer.”She stood, towering over the great white castle. “I can’t think how to do the glass roof over the gardens.”
LF has always been outside the walls and looking in. At least until Sansa invites him in. Sansa talks about the hot springs, but that wasn't the only warmth to be found within Winterfell.
Littlefinger stroked his chin, where his beard had been before Lysa had asked him to shave it off. “The glass was locked in frames, no? Twigs are your answer. Peel them and cross them and use bark to tie them together into frames. I’ll show you.” He moved through the garden, gathering up twigs and sticks and shaking the snow from them. When he had enough, he stepped over both walls with a single long stride and squatted on his heels in the middle of the yard. Sansa came closer to watch what he was doing. His hands were deft and sure, and before long he had a crisscrossing latticework of twigs, very like the one that roofed the glass gardens of Winterfell. “We will need to imagine the glass, to be sure,” he said when he gave it to her.
LF is finally within Winterfell. Or has he been there before? He certainly recognized it or did he just assume. He is helping Sansa to rebuild Winterfell. Will he do this in actuality? He steps over both walls, Sansa's protection, in one stride. Similar to what he has been doing. Sounds like the movement of a giant. He continues to teach Sansa, and she observes him.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
But unlike their father, they are coming of age with the a winter unlike any in living memory. Winterfell has burned. Can winter burn? I think Gared would say it does.
Well, nothing burns like cold. Plus, it's interesting that neither cold nor heat takes down Winterfell. It's been burned before. And it rises.
Before I get lost on another tangent, let me just say that until the snow, the Stark pups had not yet opened their eyes. Each is strengthened by winter, braced by the cold winds, and find home/identity in the snow.
Yup! Jon, Sansa, and Arya all have a "dawn" moment in Storm. Bran--only a bit. But all are finding their roles--even if they don't understand them yet.
LF is giving Sansa lessons in how to be strong. Memories alone aren't enough to hold all of her connections with home together. The memories need to be attached to something more rigid to hold together. What do the twigs represent? Faith?
The word "stick"--usually applies to Arya. Stick them with the pointy end. She carries a stick sword. She's thin as a stick--it may be a coincidence. But the chapter starts with Sansa waking with a start the hour before dawn--the hour of the wolf. And she's been dreaming of Arya. Sharing a room in Wrinterfell with Arya. So--does she need Arya to rebuild? Arya and Snow? And she's rebuilding the glass gardens warm as the hottest day in summer--Bran. Though that last one might be a bit too cute.
Winterfell might have withstood fiercer enemies, but Ned Stark sure didn't. What happens if/when Sansa figures that out. How gentle will she be?
Well--it does say she towers over the great white castle. She's greater than it now. So--stronger than Ned? And now Petyr's in her territory, not the other way around. He may think he's helping--but they are rebuilding her seat of power. That makes her "tower." Seems like he's the one who might not be thinking it all through.
He steps over both walls, Sansa's protection, in one stride. Similar to what he has been doing. Sounds like the movement of a giant. He continues to teach Sansa, and she observes him.
Yes--she has let the demon cross the threshold with that invite. Still--it's her territory. He's a giant in that castle--but so is she.
He walked along outside the walls. “I used to dream of it, in those years after Cat went north with Eddard Stark. In my dreams it was ever a dark place, and cold.”“No. It was always warm, even when it snowed. Water from the hot springs is piped through the walls to warm them, and inside the glass gardens it was always like the hottest day of summer.”
For all of his knowledge, Littlefinger still doesn't quite understand Winterfell. And, like the snow warm on her face, Sansa sees the snow and Winterfell as warm. Littlefinger doesn't get it--not quite.
LF is finally within Winterfell. Or has he been there before? He certainly recognized it or did he just assume.
I've wondered this, too. Can't think of an instance where we have Littlefinger disguising himself anything like Varys does. So, am assuming he's working from spies. But would be very interesting if he's ever been to Winterfell.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
“May I come into your castle, my lady?” Sansa was wary. “Don’t break it. Be …”“… gentle?” He smiled.
This has to be the creepiest exchange ever.
Also I think I'm backing off of my position that Littlefinger has visited Winterfell (based on his helpful suggestions to Sansa). He says he had 'imagined' it, he would probably have read about it too, and thus he has some knowledge of it.
Regarding Sansa's lost time: her siblings often disappear into the wolf they've bonded with. It seems to happen naturally, because Arya doesn't even know she's doing it for a long time, neither does Jon.
So, what happens if the wolf you've bonded with is dead? Do you naturally bond with it wherever it happens to be now? Is Sansa having wolf dreams in the underworld?
Yes, my tinfoil helmet is securely fastened.
Hey, we're twins! Matching hats!
Seriously--it's made sense to me for a while. I can't remember for the life of me where I first read the idea, but it clicks. Especially when you read Sansa's first ever POV in Game. Her direwolf is changing her personality--and she likes it. So, the idea that she's floating away, effortlessly, into Lady's realm. Reaching out to the dead and the pure like Bran reaches out to Summer--makes sense to me.
Also I think I'm backing off of my position that Littlefinger has visited Winterfell (based on his helpful suggestions to Sansa). He says he had 'imagined' it, he would probably have read about it too, and thus he has some knowledge of it.
Agreed. Though I could see him obsessing over info he gets about Winterfell. Hoping Cat hates it.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
While cold-forging an arsenal made of Ice, she stopped, and let one weapon fall.
Does it still hang in the south?
Yes--but then unites it with others to make a stronger weapon--a wall.
Bolded--not sure; though Jon sees it some time a bit before or around the same time as Sansa builds. Am wondering if that's why the color imagery is the same. . .
Dawn stole into her garden like a thief. The grey of the sky grew lighter still, and the trees and shrubs turned a dark green beneath their stoles of snow
Didn't notice the pun on "stole"--if Jon is the thief, the trees and shrubs (sentinels?) are hiding in stoles of Snow. Jon's the godswood? The way to get it back? the sentinel?
If I just keep asking questions, will it look like I know what I'm talking about?
Am wondering if this applies to the gargoyles coming up . . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
The word "stick"--usually applies to Arya. Stick them with the pointy end. She carries a stick sword. She's thin as a stick--it may be a coincidence. But the chapter starts with Sansa waking with a start the hour before dawn--the hour of the wolf. And she's been dreaming of Arya. Sharing a room in Wrinterfell with Arya. So--does she need Arya to rebuild? Arya and Snow? And she's rebuilding the glass gardens warm as the hottest day in summer--Bran. Though that last one might be a bit too cute.
Am now having one of those "duh" moments. Of course it's Arya. I'm not sure why, but I was thinking more along the lines of a quality as opposed to an actual person. Arya and stick certainly go together. I'm not quite as optimistic about Bran. Especially after Sansa's memories of the snowball fight where he was out of reach on the roof. I will content myself with the idea that at the very least he was still there, and you can't stay on the roof forever.
Well--it does say she towers over the great white castle. She's greater than it now. So--stronger than Ned? And now Petyr's in her territory, not the other way around. He may think he's helping--but they are rebuilding her seat of power. That makes her "tower." Seems like he's the one who might not be thinking it all through.
For all of his knowledge, Littlefinger still doesn't quite understand Winterfell. And, like the snow warm on her face, Sansa sees the snow and Winterfell as warm. Littlefinger doesn't get it--not quite.
I've wondered this, too. Can't think of an instance where we have Littlefinger disguising himself anything like Varys does. So, am assuming he's working from spies. But would be very interesting if he's ever been to Winterfell.
It does seem to be more of his MO to use others to do this stuff for him.
Also I think I'm backing off of my position that Littlefinger has visited Winterfell (based on his helpful suggestions to Sansa). He says he had 'imagined' it, he would probably have read about it too, and thus he has some knowledge of it.
I wouldn't even be surprised had he sent others to spy for him. But, no, I'm not sure that I get the feeling that he was ever there himself.
Didn't notice the pun on "stole"--if Jon is the thief, the trees and shrubs (sentinels?) are hiding in stoles of Snow. Jon's the godswood? The way to get it back? the sentinel?
I like this! Makes sense. Especially when you consider that the main reason that he turned down Sannis's offer of Winterfell (even though chronologically this is later in the story) was basically to protect the godswood.
“This is just right,” she said. He touched her face. “And so is that.” Sansa did not understand. “And so is what?”“Your smile, my lady. Shall I make another for you?”“If you would.”“Nothing could please me more.”
She raised the walls of the glass gardens while Littlefinger roofed them over, and when they were done with that he helped her extend the walls and build the guardshall. When she used sticks for the covered bridges, they stood, just as he had said they would. The First Keep was simple enough, an old round drum tower, but Sansa was stymied again when it came to putting the gargoyles around the top. Again he had the answer. “It’s been snowing on your castle, my lady,”he pointed out. “What do the gargoyles look like when they’re covered with snow?”
Sansa closed her eyes to see them in memory. “They’re just white lumps.”“Well, then. Gargoyles are hard, but white lumps should be easy.” And they were.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Am now having one of those "duh" moments. Of course it's Arya. I'm not sure why, but I was thinking more along the lines of a quality as opposed to an actual person. Arya and stick certainly go together. I'm not quite as optimistic about Bran. Especially after Sansa's memories of the snowball fight where he was out of reach on the roof. I will content myself with the idea that at the very least he was still there, and you can't stay on the roof forever.
I like this! Makes sense. Especially when you consider that the main reason that he turned down Sannis's offer of Winterfell (even though chronologically this is later in the story) was basically to protect the godswood.
Yes--Sansa and Jon seem to cluster Jon, Sansa, and Arya together in their memories--with Bran on the edges--as a tree, on the roof. Hmmm.
Jon on Dawn with sisters: The pale pink light of dawn sparkled on branch and leaf and stone. Every blade of grass was carved from emerald, every drip of water turned to diamond. Flowers and mushrooms alike wore coats of glass. Even the mud puddles had a bright brown sheen. Through the shimmering greenery, the black tents of his brothers were encased in a fine glaze of ice.
So there is magic beyond the Wall after all. He found himself thinking of his sisters, perhaps because he'd dreamed of them last night. Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it, but Arya would run out laughing and shouting, wanting to touch it all. Clash Jon III
Then you gave the snowball image with Sansa. Throw in the fact that they are both concerned about a godswood.
Jon's imagery is ice at dawn. Sansa's is snow-building bringing dawn. Both of them include Arya. . . seems like the reunion of the three is likely to come.
I need to do a longer search on Arya, but here's her "dawn" reference in Storm: The eastern horizon glowed gold and pink, and overhead a half moon peeked out through low scuttling clouds. The wind blew cold, and Arya could hear the rush of water and the creak of the mill's great wooden waterwheel. There was a smell of rain in the dawn air, but no drops were falling yet. Flaming arrows flew through the morning mists, trailing pale ribbons of fire, and thudded into the wooden walls of the septry. A few smashed through shuttered windows, and soon enough thin tendrils of smoke were rising between the broken shutters. Storm, Arya VII
Note the same colors as Jon's Sword of the Morning moment. And the (possibly coincidental) fact that Sansa's moment is in Sansa VII; Arya's is in Arya VII. Jon's seeing the sword and climbing the Wall. Sansa's rebuilding the castle. Arya's fighting, scouring the countryside, support in battle. hmmm. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.