I don't know Lynn.If its one think everyone knows for sure is Rhaegar crowned Lyanna with the tourney crown.
What has always interested me is Ned's and Brandon's reaction.But especially the context blue roses appear after wards in particular Ned's recall of them.
Ned has a factual recall of the event which involved Rhaegar but when he thinks of blue roses again it doesn't.Robert gets interjected.
I remember Brandon being pissed but don't remember Ned giving his reaction. Always been interesting how amused Robert seemed about the whole thing.
One thing that I always wonder about is how Rhaegar got the blue Winter Roses. I thought they were only grown in the greenhouses of Winterfell. I wonder if any Starks helped him get some.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
I don't know Lynn.If its one think everyone knows for sure is Rhaegar crowned Lyanna with the tourney crown.
What has always interested me is Ned's and Brandon's reaction.But especially the context blue roses appear after wards in particular Ned's recall of them.
Ned has a factual recall of the event which involved Rhaegar but when he thinks of blue roses again it doesn't.Robert gets interjected.
Yes, everyone saw her crowned. The point is that is when all the smiled died. If the roses are grown at Winterfell for the purpose of funerary rights or remembrance, that would explain the reaction. The Roman tradition of using roses on funeral steles is very interesting. It implies that an unmarried woman died before her time. This is exactly what Ned says about Lyanna. He is also the one who brings flowers to her in the crypt. So it seems to me that the context for roses here isn't romantic. Why were there blue roses at Harrenhall in the first place? Was the outcome already determined as some seem to think; that Rhaegar was allowed to win. Blue roses are specific to House Stark or so we are told. Others, like Barristan Selmy may not understand the significance to the Starks and think of it only as a romantic gesture.
There is also Theon's dream where he sees a woman he hasn't seen before but assumes it is Lyanna because she is wearing a crown of roses. He doesn't know the story of Harrenhall and Ned never speaks of Lyanna. He only makes the association between Lyanna and the statue in the crypts because of the crown of roses. In other words, he has seen her statue with a crown of roses. Who puts them there? That would be Ned, who brings her flowers whenever he can.
I see what you are saying now,good catch.Ned did bring her flowers.The blue winter roses were her favorite.So Theon visiting the crypt could have seen one of Ned's gift.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
I don't know Lynn.If its one think everyone knows for sure is Rhaegar crowned Lyanna with the tourney crown.
What has always interested me is Ned's and Brandon's reaction.But especially the context blue roses appear after wards in particular Ned's recall of them.
Ned has a factual recall of the event which involved Rhaegar but when he thinks of blue roses again it doesn't.Robert gets interjected.
I remember Brandon being pissed but don't remember Ned giving his reaction. Always been interesting how amused Robert seemed about the whole thing.
One thing that I always wonder about is how Rhaegar got the blue Winter Roses. I thought they were only grown in the greenhouses of Winterfell. I wonder if any Starks helped him get some.
Ned's reaction was internal.He spoke of how it affected him.His description of it.
In terms of how Rhaegar got the roses I felt that it was secured because it was rare and it was a grand affair.It was bling.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
I remember Brandon being pissed but don't remember Ned giving his reaction. Always been interesting how amused Robert seemed about the whole thing.
One thing that I always wonder about is how Rhaegar got the blue Winter Roses. I thought they were only grown in the greenhouses of Winterfell. I wonder if any Starks helped him get some.
Ned's reaction was internal.He spoke of how it affected him.His description of it.
In terms of how Rhaegar got the roses I felt that it was secured because it was rare and it was a grand affair.It was bling.
Ok I need to reread the passage because I don't remember anger from Ned maybe I just fixated on the moment the smiles died bit.
Yes but how and the time consideration. Granted we don't know how long the tournament lasted but the idea that Rhaegar discovered that Lyanna was the KotLT and then arranged for the flowers to be sent from the North. Or maybe the Starks had brought some South... IDK
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Ned's reaction was internal.He spoke of how it affected him.His description of it.
In terms of how Rhaegar got the roses I felt that it was secured because it was rare and it was a grand affair.It was bling.
Ok I need to reread the passage because I don't remember anger from Ned maybe I just fixated on the moment the smiles died bit.
Yes but how and the time consideration. Granted we don't know how long the tournament lasted but the idea that Rhaegar discovered that Lyanna was the KotLT and then arranged for the flowers to be sent from the North. Or maybe the Starks had brought some South... IDK
Yeah I agree, that story or explanation seems very contrived.Anybody with eyes would have suspected a Stark.I mean the mystery Knight had a Weirwood on his shield.
As for specifically getting the flowers for Lyanna on account of love...nah.I still say that the winter roses were chosen because they were rare and would have gone good with the event.
As for purpose it seems to me this was a witty display by Rhaegar that rattled the Starks lack of humor and someone else capitalized on the situation.
Ned and they when it comes to their women go from 0-60 in a hot Westrosi minute.They can't take a tease when it comes to that.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Hey, I love this because to m Robert's love for Lyanna just seemed so real to be so written off. I saw someone ask about lunar symbolism for Lyanna- just wanted to point out that wolves/dogs/werewolves are already pretty mythically connected to the moon. Just like stags/bulls/goats are pretty mythically connected to storm gods (whose thunder sounds like the crashing together of horns/antlers). I do disagree on the unimportance of Rhaegar and Lyanna's whereabouts for the year since the stared narrative is that they are together -willingly or not- for that year. I never noticed or thought much of Ned's praise of Robert to Jon-good point! I certainly think the age of a baby would be pretty easy to mistake (my two year old is constantly mistaken for a four year old in size and development) and people do see what they expect to see (plus I don't think Cat would have been able to so much as look at Jon in the beginning).
Hey, I have another thought. We DON'T know that Lyanna is asking Ned to raise Jon as his bastard. She may have said protect him (because this is an unstable and dangerous time and he is a bastard and she won't be there for him.). It is Ned, who coming from the Lannister sack of king's landing and elia and her kids fates(threats to Tywin's rule as much as to Roberts) who decided Jon was better off as his bastard, with his wife -who he may have felt he could deal with- rather than the Red Keep. Lyanna may not have suggested any such thing.
Hey, I love this because to m Robert's love for Lyanna just seemed so real to be so written off. I saw someone ask about lunar symbolism for Lyanna- just wanted to point out that wolves/dogs/werewolves are already pretty mythically connected to the moon. Just like stags/bulls/goats are pretty mythically connected to storm gods (whose thunder sounds like the crashing together of horns/antlers). I do disagree on the unimportance of Rhaegar and Lyanna's whereabouts for the year since the stared narrative is that they are together -willingly or not- for that year. I never noticed or thought much of Ned's praise of Robert to Jon-good point! I certainly think the age of a baby would be pretty easy to mistake (my two year old is constantly mistaken for a four year old in size and development) and people do see what they expect to see (plus I don't think Cat would have been able to so much as look at Jon in the beginning).
Hi StormQueen and welcome.It is true that many overlook Robert's feelings as that of a man obsessed over what he couldn't have.
But if true it is a delusion shared and applauded by Ned who is very happy that Robert remembered his sister.Why? Especially, if this was a one-sided relationship.
Needless to say it is Ned and Robert's various actions and words that give the extent of Robert and Lyanna's relationship and it was not in Robert's mind.
I don't think the whereabouts of Lyanna and Rhaegar are inconsequential.I just think what kept Rhaegar out of most if the war had nothing to do with Lyanna.
Whatever mission he was on had to do with ousting his dad.I don't in truth believe Lyanna was truly missing.I believe that was a cover story and instigator to get certain players where they needed to be.
Someone took advantage of Brandon's temper and Aerys paranoia to set a flame the conspiracy set.
Yes,I have always found it quite telling how many characters tell Jon about Robert.I've said it before Robert is not an unknown to Jon he has grown up with his dad telling him about this amazing figure.Seen this larger than life person at his lowest and had men speak about who he was and how he'd change.
He knows enough to whisper how much the queen was upset that Robert went to the crypts.
He has more in common and there are more parallels between the both of them.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"
Hey, I have another thought. We DON'T know that Lyanna is asking Ned to raise Jon as his bastard. She may have said protect him (because this is an unstable and dangerous time and he is a bastard and she won't be there for him.). It is Ned, who coming from the Lannister sack of king's landing and elia and her kids fates(threats to Tywin's rule as much as to Roberts) who decided Jon was better off as his bastard, with his wife -who he may have felt he could deal with- rather than the Red Keep. Lyanna may not have suggested any such thing.
Well I don't think Lyanna made such a specific request myself.As in protect Jon from anything or one in particular.I think she simply said " will you watch over my son." No different than what Robert did with Ned when he requested Ned to watch over Joff and teach how to be a good man etc.
I think Ned made a choice that Jon would be better off in WF than at court.He had his reasons Jon is a bastard and the gods frown on bastard.He knew that Jon would be shunned at court.
I find it interesting that in his argument with Cat Ned mentions that Roberts bastard weren't allowed at court because of Cersie.
He's been watching and making note if that.
"The world is full of obvious things which nobody by any chance ever observes"--Sherlock Holmes"