I agree that Craster was offering his sons to the Others. So co existance is possible but its one heck of a price to pay. I still wonder why Mormont seems to condone it.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
But the wildlings serve crueler gods than you or I.
This is the quote that has always confounded me. Jon prays to the Old Gods, and assumedly so does Mormont. Presumably so do the free folk. But then, who are the "crueler gods" that are NOT the same as the Old Gods?
I think it is meant poetically. Surely he knows they serve the old gods, apart from Craster.
Mormont is telling the reader that life north of the wall is hard, much harder than even Castle Black. He turns his head the other way to Craster's odious practices but he sees it as Craster's means of survival.
Mormont is telling the reader that life north of the wall is hard, much harder than even Castle Black. He turns his head the other way to Craster's odious practices but he sees it as Craster's means of survival.
yes, good point; but is it survival by means of offerings to the gods?
because otherwise you'd think males would be handy to survive in a such a harsh environment.
I do think Craster follows the old gods because the one thing he never fails on is hospitality.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
Mormont is telling the reader that life north of the wall is hard, much harder than even Castle Black. He turns his head the other way to Craster's odious practices but he sees it as Craster's means of survival.
yes, good point; but is it survival by means of offerings to the gods?
because otherwise you'd think males would be handy to survive in a such a harsh environment.
I do think Craster follows the old gods because the one thing he never fails on is hospitality.
Oh yes I do think it is a religious ritual for Craster that somehow protects his midden heap of a home. I think I think it is Mormont who tries to block out the details, not look too closely.
yes, good point; but is it survival by means of offerings to the gods?
because otherwise you'd think males would be handy to survive in a such a harsh environment.
I'm not sure if it matters all that much in wildling culture. Labor division north of the Wall does not seem to be based upon gender/sex the way it is in Kneeler culture.
Oh yes I do think it is a religious ritual for Craster that somehow protects his midden heap of a home. I think I think it is Mormont who tries to block out the details, not look too closely.
I once thought the same regarding Craster's protection, but that keep fell to a Night's Watch made desperate after the attack at the Fist... which seems to have been orchestrated by Others.
If any gods were protecting Craster, it wasn't the cruel cold ones.
Regarding Mormont, I definitely agree.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I once thought the same regarding Craster's protection, but that keep fell to a Night's Watch made desperate after the attack at the Fist... which seems to have been orchestrated by Others.
If any gods were protecting Craster, it wasn't the cruel cold ones.
the fact that Craster respects hospitality points to the old gods as mentioned.
Building up from this and your comment above: I this have been wondering why he feels so smug about being free from attack from wights and other cold beings. Perhaps his 'hill' was actually warded, like Leaf's cave. Having been killed, the warding goes, and his wives know that the cold things can now get to them.
It may also explains why he has to go into away from his keep for his donations, rather than leaving them on the door step.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
the fact that Craster respects hospitality points to the old gods as mentioned.
Agreed. I think Jon wanted to pretend that all who kept the Old Gods were like his "father," all who served the NW were like his uncle, and all wildlings were monsters.
Craster is a welcome affirmation of at least a fraction of that.
It's interesting that Jon respectfully disrespects Craster's hospitality.
Building up from this and your comment above: I this have been wondering why he feels so smug about being free from attack from wights and other cold beings. Perhaps his 'hill' was actually warded, like Leaf's cave. Having been killed, the warding goes, and his wives know that the cold things can now get to them.
It may also explains why he has to go into away from his keep for his donations, rather than leaving them on the door step.
It may, but keep in mind that the wayward donation was only made in the show. In the books the donations were claimed to have been made, but his methods were never shown on-page.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
It may, but keep in mind that the wayward donation was only made in the show. In the books the donations were claimed to have been made, but his methods were never shown on-page.
good point, i can't remember the details in the book and...did not look them up.
"My lord," Jon said quietly as the wood closed in around them once more. "Craster has no sheep. Nor any sons." Mormont made no answer.
"At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories," Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children." "Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?"
In half a hundred ways. "He gives his sons to the wood." A long silence. Then: "Yes." And "Yes," the raven muttered, strutting. "Yes, yes, yes."
a few interesting bits there:
Old Nan is now a serving woman? a bit disrespectful, i'd say
birthing half-human children is a Hearth tale.... I hope it is not contagious.. i have been listening to plenty of these!
he gives his sons to the woods..without going back to the books, perhaps Gilly mentioned that...in any case, there is an opportunity there for it to be away from a warded perimeter.
"Arya did not dare take a bath, even though she smelled as bad as Yoren by now, all sour and stinky. Some of the creatures living in her clothes had come all the way from Flea Bottom with her; it didn’t seem right to drown them."
Agreed. I think Jon wanted to pretend that all who kept the Old Gods were like his "father," all who served the NW were like his uncle, and all wildlings were monsters.
Funny enough, most of us first time readers thought the same way! We learned the hard truth right along with Jon.
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.
I once thought the same regarding Craster's protection, but that keep fell to a Night's Watch made desperate after the attack at the Fist... which seems to have been orchestrated by Others.
If any gods were protecting Craster, it wasn't the cruel cold ones.
the fact that Craster respects hospitality points to the old gods as mentioned.
Building up from this and your comment above: I this have been wondering why he feels so smug about being free from attack from wights and other cold beings. Perhaps his 'hill' was actually warded, like Leaf's cave. Having been killed, the warding goes, and his wives know that the cold things can now get to them.
It may also explains why he has to go into away from his keep for his donations, rather than leaving them on the door step.
If one of his Wive's were a witch perhaps... This brings up interesting connections to Jenny Oldstones or Mel.
I believe Craster sincerely believed in his gods' protection. I could see it starting as worshipping the Old Gods then evolving into child sacrifice to the Others. Maybe some communication occurred between him & the NK that led to this set up and Craster interpreted that as the " real" Old Gods.
I don't know what changed to make his home no longer a haven with either a spell or Others' protection.
I believe Craster sincerely believed in his gods' protection. I could see it starting as worshipping the Old Gods then evolving into child sacrifice to the Others. Maybe some communication occurred between him & the NK that led to this set up and Craster interpreted that as the " real" Old Gods.
I would love to read the backstory here. I wonder if we'll get it from Gilly?
The blade was Valyrian steel, spell-forged and dark as smoke. Nothing held an edge like Valyrian steel.