Torrhen & Rickard Stark. Why ?

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Torrhen & Rickard Stark. Why ? Dec 5, 2015 19:52:00 GMT voice likes this

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Post by whitewolfstark on Dec 5, 2015 19:52:00 GMT

Dec 1, 2015 5:28:03 GMT pieceofgosa said:

Dec 1, 2015 5:17:39 GMT Mojo said:

I'm digging this, we need some new theories, and this one makes sense I think. Maybe he (Ice T) cursed his own lineage. Recall the vision of the pregnant lady Bran saw at WF. Also before Rickard, the male line seemed to be almost wiped out, when supposedly the she wolves ruled- I think Skagos had rebelled or something at the time. It was the basis of my now defunct Ned's mom was Skagosi theory that was deleted in Westeros.

Regardless, isn't it weird that Ned's mom is never mentioned, and neither of the Starks think of her? The moms in those books are generally forces to be reckoned with, if not, then at least important. I don't know if Rickard's Lady Stark fits in the puzzle, but even Tywin thought of his dead mother.

? Maybe it's irrelevant to Torrhen, but I have wondered if she's important to Rickard's story.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Lyarra (I believe her name was) Stark was nee Lyarra Stark, her and Rickard were cousins (via the Flints). I remember laughing heartily at this, as after all the speculation about Ned's mom she turns out to be a Stark!! Anyway, significantly her mother (Ned's grandmother) was Arya Flint, at least I think that's significant

They're not cousins via the Flints, they're Stark cousins. Lyarra's Flint blood is actually what makes her different from Rickard. Just like Rickard's Locke mother's blood is what makes him different from Lyarra. Added to that, that they're first cousins once removed.

Rickard's grandfather was the much older brother of Lyarra's father, who was the youngest of many siblings and didn't marry and settle down until later in life, as he spent many years fighting in the sell sword company in Essos: The Second Sons. Lyarra's father wasn't called Rodrik "the Wandering Wolf" Stark for nothing.

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Torrhen & Rickard Stark. Why ? Dec 6, 2015 4:55:53 GMT voice and SlyWren like this

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Post by Wraith on Dec 6, 2015 4:55:53 GMT

Dec 1, 2015 2:54:38 GMT pieceofgosa said:

Posted this on the other forum, posting here for discussion. Very rough theory, do not be gentle.

I'm having a little "lightbulb moment" so bear with me. Two particular Stark family incidents have long bothered many a poster on this forum;

1 - Why did Rickard Stark ride to King's Landing with such a token force ?

2 - Why did Torrhen Stark kneel to Aegon?

What if the two are connected ? It's my gut feeling that Torrhen Stark knew, or had been forewarned/foretold that the dragons were coming and that he knelt because "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell". The rub is that I believe that there was a price for Torrhen's surrender and that price was guaranteed dominion of the north for House Stark for as long as House Targaryen ruled Westeros. Now, we have discussed before the possibility that Aegon himself believed he was a figure of prophecy, that is unclear, what is clear is that he had access to prophecies, visions, forewarnings etc, as detailed in his ancestor Daenys' book. If we accept the possibility that Torrhen was waiting for Aegon then it's perhaps not too much of a a stretch to imagine Aegon knew he would be meeting Torrhen and he knew how he would deal with that meeting. One important codicil, I believe at the time the agreement between Torrhen & Aegon was reached, a further agreement that no union would take place between House Stark & House Targaryen was also put in place.

So how does that relate to my first question about Rickard ? Well if an ancient agreement was in place between HS + HT with regard the dominion of the north, an agreement known only to the heads of the houses, passed from father to son (with maesters as insurance in case a father died without passing on the knowledge) is it too much to imagine that Rickard went to KL with the (erroneous) assumption he would be able to fall back on this ancient accord ?

1) Well do we even know how many men he took with him? I agree with the other posters that he probably didn't want to further antagonize the Mad King. Sadly it was already too late for him and Brandon it seems. It really depends on how much of the Southern Ambitions theory to me. Perhaps the seizure of his son and heir should have triggered the war. Or perhaps because all the marriage alliances were unfinished he thought it best to wait. Remember Hoster Tully wasn't raising his banners still both his daughters were married.

2) Well Aegon had basically steamrolled the rest of Westeros sans Dorne at this point. His scouts had already seen the remains of the Redgrass Fields. Aegon now had his dragons and a roughly comparable force (I could be wrong I don't have my copy of the World book in front of me). Or at the very least it was the largest army that Aegon had been able to field and all 3 dragons. Northern pride almost led to the fight but IMO Torrhen made the smart moved and surrendered. He knew by now that surrendering means his line would continue to rule the North as Lord Paramount. Aegon had a habit of raising those who knelt and destroying those who opposed him.

Your theory is interesting but I don't see much evidence to support it. Is there any good theories on "there must be a Stark in Winterfell" actually means? Also why would agreement to never marry houses be part of the agreement when it was the preferred method for ending conflicts? The Starks seemed to marry into almost every other former Northern kingly house sans the Red Kings of the Dreadfort.

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

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pieceofgosa Grey Wind I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it. Posts: 1,202 pieceofgosa inherit Male 53 0 Sept 28, 2023 0:43:22 GMT 2,395 pieceofgosa I don't care what you believe in, just believe in it. 1,202 Grey Wind Nov 29, 2015 4:25:24 GMT November 2015 pieceofgosa	Torrhen & Rickard Stark. Why ? Dec 16, 2015 18:24:14 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by pieceofgosa on Dec 16, 2015 18:24:14 GMT Dec 6, 2015 4:55:53 GMT Wraith said: Your theory is interesting but I don't see much evidence to support it. That would seem to sum up this theory pretty well. Back to the drawing board...
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Torrhen & Rickard Stark. Why ?

Post by whitewolfstark on Dec 5, 2015 19:52:00 GMT

Post by Wraith on Dec 6, 2015 4:55:53 GMT

Post by pieceofgosa on Dec 16, 2015 18:24:14 GMT