Post by Dornish Neck Tie on Sept 4, 2016 13:50:18 GMT
I could definitely see Doran getting cuckolded by his bro and being totally cool about it as long as he can use the kid for his own means.
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
Post by Dornish Neck Tie on Sept 4, 2016 15:32:26 GMT
I have to give a quick shoutout to Wraith for convincing me that no matter what happens with Dorne, it's going to be a hell of a lot more compelling than I initially believed. I especially like your idea about Darkstar being a hidden Targaryen. Doran's line about him being the "most dangerous man in Dorne" fits a lot better if we look at it that way. Otherwise, he's just some loony from a cadet branch of a vassal.
Also, Maester Sam's observation about Illyrio and possibly Varys being in this for Essosi interests was fucking brilliant. And it would be classic GRRM to have Robert be rightfully concerned about a Targaryen-Dothraki alliance all along.
to both of you.
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
I have to give a quick shoutout to Wraith for convincing me that no matter what happens with Dorne, it's going to be a hell of a lot more compelling than I initially believed.
Scince I discovered this week that Martin was a fan of MS&T, I keep seeing echos between thier works, and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole of Dorne is about a single character being in the right place at the right time to help the hero save the world... it just all seems so unnecessary to the main plot.
Think of Dorne as Jean Valjean's priest- a whole bloody book on his life for a 5 minute cameo in the real storey to give the hero the little pinch of snuff needed to get him to save himself.
Wraith, I can't believe I haven't seen this thread before! Thought I'd gone through all the juciest threads here a good while back, but no. Terrific finds! I'll go more closely over them in the days/weeks to come and see if I have anything to add, just wanted to give you a shout out for now! (And bump the thread so I remember it...)
I don't have much time, but had to throw this out there:
By marrying Dany to Drogon and thereby setting the stage for the Dothraki to sail to Westeros and fight for Viserys, Illyrio would have effectively removed the threat of the Dothraki from the continent of Essos. The Century of Blood saw the rise of the Dothraki in areas previously inhabited by sophisticated societies. I think we underestimate the threat that they are to the Free Cities, who have to pay huge bribes and give away many slaves whenever a khalasar comes knocking on their gates. Occasionally, we hear, a khal decides his men need a good fight and sacks a city anyway.
Illyrio and Varys want to get rid of them once and for all. Sending them off to westeros would accomplish this, regardless of whether they win or lose over there. They are essentially manipulating an entire civilization into leaving the continent permanently.
What do you think? I kind of love it, as it's the first motive I've heard that seems "big" enough to justify years of planning and serious risk taking. I'm not sure how Aegon fits into it, though it sounds like they were going to have him and the GC meet up with the Dothraki back when Viserys was still alive. So either Varys and Illyrio really wanted to win in Westeros (though they would have relatively little power in the new court in KL, so I'm not sure why it's worth it to them), or, a darker scenario, they wanted to rid themselves of the Dothraki and the Dragons. And the Dragon-loyal GC while they're at it...
Varys says he wants peace. This plan would help bring it about... in Essos. Which is where he and Illyrio are from. Illyrio even tells Tyrion in ADWD that he has no wish to move to Westeros when Pentos is so much nicer. They don't care who sits the IT, they just want all the warmongers out of Essos and allow the Free Cities to flourish once again.
This was excellent! Has this been given it's own thread? If so, where? It kinda mirrors something that hit me while I reread the chapter of Dany and Drogon's wedding the other day. The wording of the khalasar outside the walls of Pentos really reminded me of the wildling host outside the Wall, so it stirred some thoughts in my mind that I haven't had time to put into something yet, but I think this would be very close - not to mention far ahed in terms of a full plotline! Nice!
I have to give a quick shoutout to Wraith for convincing me that no matter what happens with Dorne, it's going to be a hell of a lot more compelling than I initially believed. I especially like your idea about Darkstar being a hidden Targaryen. Doran's line about him being the "most dangerous man in Dorne" fits a lot better if we look at it that way. Otherwise, he's just some loony from a cadet branch of a vassal.
Also, Maester Sam 's observation about Illyrio and possibly Varys being in this for Essosi interests was fucking brilliant. And it would be classic GRRM to have Robert be rightfully concerned about a Targaryen-Dothraki alliance all along.
to both of you.
Cheers. Remember Dorne withstood the Dragons in the time of Aegon I think they could do so again if needed.
I agree Maester Sam take on making things more peaceful in Essos by removing the major Dothraki threats by either A) attacking Westeros or B) sending them to the far East would make Illyrio a lot of friends in Essos.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!