Well, when last we left the queso-stained pooks, there were a bunch of frustratingly unresolved cliffhangers. And messy plot threads. Did You Know: The Mayonnaise Knot is still unresolved? That conundrum (which I believe was absolutely contrived) took all the blame for the five year wait for ADWD. Sample chapters released from TWOW are ... iffy. Some are good, some are serviceable, but Martin continues his navel-gazing exposition (looking at you, Arianne I and II) about a subject (Dorne) I couldn't give a shit about.
So, answer one: he is still treading water with no attempt to reach shore.
Let's not forget, NAB fans, that Martin took a year off from any writing after ADWD was delivered. Hard to criticize him for that (I can, but won't at the moment) -- vacations are good. And what's the point of being RIITCH BIOTCH if you don't live it up a lot. Promptly after returning from his vacation, he took a six-month Australian "promotional tour" to pump ADWD. What's that in my ear? Why ... it's piss. Imagine that. Piss in my ear. Then there are the side projects and conventions. In Martin's own estimation, a convention eats up three days both before and after the event: preparing to go and switching gears upon return. For every con, he loses about ten days from writing, given the number of cons he goes to we are talking about close to two months every year. He doesn't write on Sundays. Because football. Draft day, also no workie workie. The side projects consume a lot of ASOIAF time as well. But if you look back on the NAB where he lists the "monkeys on his back" you'll see a number of them were shamefully late. And a few (a tribute to Poul Anderson and the next Dunk and Egg) were never completed at all.
Answer two: he doesn't like to write ASOIAF.
Quick answer three: Martin is not capable of writing a serial work on his own and was in way over his head.
But, in deference to Occam's Razor: Someone shat on Martin's balls.
As soon as the cameras are off I am going to fuck that little dog.
Other: He's letting Ran and Linda write it for him.
You know what? I don't even think he's as smart as everyone gives him credit for. Not saying he isn't smart, but all those logical points people make, "clues" they find. I have a hard time believing he's carefully crafting his clues and tying up unresolved plot holes. They're plot holes, people, not intentional hints he plans on revealing later. He needs a fan to fact check his work for goodness sakes. Clearly he's sitting around naked playing his bongo drums and canon balling into his pool... (karsa, please Conan gif here )
Just my two dragons...
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Actually, he is busy writing a major volume on Sad Puppies and NFL...
He's busy working Sad Puppies into ASOIAF as a major plotline.
Ya'll wanted this done before 2030? Fuck you, I'm dragging it out to 12 books.
I half expect TWOW to be along with AFFC & ADWD, to complete George's "second book" trilogy. Just like AGOT - ASOS can be seen as his "Book One" trilogy. After that, I see ADOS being split up into three books itself.
GRRM is going to try and rival Star Wars in terms of # of episodes.
I half expect TWOW to be along with AFFC & ADWD, to complete George's "second book" trilogy. Just like AGOT - ASOS can be seen as his "Book One" trilogy. After that, I see ADOS being split up into three books itself.
GRRM is going to try and rival Star Wars in terms of # of episodes.
Can totally see this as the case.
Although hopefully we won't start averaging 15-20 years between novels.
I don't even think he's as smart as everyone gives him credit for. Not saying he isn't smart, but all those logical points people make, "clues" they find. I have a hard time believing he's carefully crafting his clues and tying up unresolved plot holes.
Ahhhhhhh, so much this. I mean, yeah, he's spinning a good yarn and all, but gods be good, people! Not every single word is dripping with symbolism or a hat tip to some hidden major secret. Sometimes he's just a-writea-da-English, yanno?
People keep pointing out all of these repetitive phrases and examples of common word usage and stuff and talk about how it's GRRM establishing a pattern, making some point through judicious literary application etc etc. I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking that's really just GRRM not being that fantastic of a writer and not having quite as creative a vocabulary/repertoire as many like to believe.
I don't even think he's as smart as everyone gives him credit for. Not saying he isn't smart, but all those logical points people make, "clues" they find. I have a hard time believing he's carefully crafting his clues and tying up unresolved plot holes.
Ahhhhhhh, so much this. I mean, yeah, he's spinning a good yarn and all, but gods be good, people! Not every single word is dripping with symbolism or a hat tip to some hidden major secret. Sometimes he's just a-writea-da-English, yanno?
People keep pointing out all of these repetitive phrases and examples of common word usage and stuff and talk about how it's GRRM establishing a pattern, making some point through judicious literary application etc etc. I'm like, yeah, I'm thinking that's really just GRRM not being that fantastic of a writer and not having quite as creative a vocabulary/repertoire as many like to believe.
This is where reading an author's entire body of work really comes in handy (I learned that from my two courses on Shakespeare that I took in undergrad where we read the majority of his work). You get a sense for what ideas and themes an author obsesses over. You understand their limitations and gifts as a writer, you also often get to see them mature as an author which is tremendously satisfying.
I'm reading along with Preston Jacobs' 1000 Worlds Book Club and to me it simply unlocks that GRRM is an author who has grown in his abilities, but he's a bit clumsy in his writing abilities as well. He's more concerned with ambiguity, theme, character, and message, than he often is in a traditional narrative structure. He often seems to chafe under traditional narrative structures thus far from what I've read. I haven't read it all, but I'm quickly understanding him and his style. He's a lot less clumsy than he used to be--but you still get that sense at times that he's a Samwell with a bit more courage at times IMO.
I've got more to say on this intelligence convo, but I'm afraid it's time to nerd out on more Star Wars...Episode IV...dad's gonna watch with me again on Weds!
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
it simply unlocks that GRRM is an author who has grown in his abilities, but he's a bit clumsy in his writing abilities as well. He's more concerned with ambiguity, theme, character, and message, than he often is in a traditional narrative structure.
Agree. I've only read The Ice Dragon and the D&E series aside from ASOIAF, and IMO that clumsiness is even more apparent in the shorter stories - they were very stilted to me. Granted, fantasy/sci fi is not my genre by any stretch so maybe it's universal to everything, but I can say that compared to other authors that I really, really like (post-postmodernists, mainly), GRRM is a mediocre wordsmith.
Had this same convo with a coworker a while ago - we both agreed that while George tells a good story, he's certainly not the best at the "telling" part.
Clearly he's sitting around naked playing his bongo drums and canon balling into his pool... (karsa, please Conan gif here )
Damn it, Mojo! I'm getting this close to needing to pour bleach directly into my brain! You can't unsee that shit and karsa needs no further encouragement to post that gif.
I'm reading along with Preston Jacobs' 1000 Worlds Book Club and to me it simply unlocks that GRRM is an author who has grown in his abilities, but he's a bit clumsy in his writing abilities as well. He's more concerned with ambiguity, theme, character, and message, than he often is in a traditional narrative structure. He often seems to chafe under traditional narrative structures thus far from what I've read. I haven't read it all, but I'm quickly understanding him and his style. He's a lot less clumsy than he used to be--but you still get that sense at times that he's a Samwell with a bit more courage at times IMO.
You know that there is a thread here for that. It's under entertainment and literature. Feel free to share any thoughts. I thought I might be the only one following along. @morrigansraven has read some of them as well.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
it simply unlocks that GRRM is an author who has grown in his abilities, but he's a bit clumsy in his writing abilities as well. He's more concerned with ambiguity, theme, character, and message, than he often is in a traditional narrative structure.
Agree. I've only read The Ice Dragon and the D&E series aside from ASOIAF, and IMO that clumsiness is even more apparent in the shorter stories - they were very stilted to me. Granted, fantasy/sci fi is not my genre by any stretch so maybe it's universal to everything, but I can say that compared to other authors that I really, really like (post-postmodernists, mainly), GRRM is a mediocre wordsmith.
Had this same convo with a coworker a while ago - we both agreed that while George tells a good story, he's certainly not the best at the "telling" part.
I doubly agree! And I think that he covers any other faults he may have through using third person limited narration. After all, if a mistake slips into the story he can then claim it was something a particular POV mistook.
The best "wordcraft" I've seen from GRRM is the first few chapters of AGOT--specifically Catelyn II. There's one passage in there that I felt not only evoked how a Medieval person would speak, but stood out to me as being a bit poetic. That's the chapter that hooked me into wanting to read more, and because of that one moment of "wordcraft" when he got it right:
That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."
"Perhaps not," Catelyn said, "but Brandon is dead, and the cup has passed, and you must drink from it, like it or not."
Ned turned away from her, back to the night. He stood staring out in the darkness, watching the moon and the stars perhaps, or perhaps the sentries on the wall.
It's not the best "wordcraft" but it struck me as apt, appropriate, and slightly beautiful in context of the chapter and its mood. The only other phrase that comes close to it in AGOT is the final chapter's ending words:
As Daenerys Targaryen rose to her feet, her black hissed, pale smoke venting from its mouth and nostrils. The other two pulled away from her breasts and added their voices to the call, translucent wings unfolding and stirring the air, and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.
That was of course the best line to end the novel on. There's not a lot of other phrases that strike me as lovely just for their own sake, but in most respects I find AGOT to have some of Martin's best "wordcraft" that I've encountered thus far in my endeavor to read his work. Martin has his moments, but they're few and far between for the large part in his gigantic volumes of words.
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