I argue that Dawn, as a sword, is simply a symbol for dawn.
If Dawn is dawn, maybe it won't flame. The dawn is warm, but it is (usually) not a sudden burst of heat and light. With dawn, the light and warmth approach and grow. The dawn is a hope and a promise, but is not the full reality of day. Dawn may carry the promise of the end of The Long Night, rather than bringing it to a sudden dramatic end.
Do we have any indication that Dawn is hot? Aemon seems to expect Lightbringer to burn with heat, not just light.
Aemon, like most readers, wants to see a flaming sword. I argue that Dawn, as a sword, is simply a symbol for dawn.
The sword in the darkness. The light that brings the dawn. The fire that burns against the cold.
Yes my friend. Dawn is hot. Dawn is the very source of heat and light. Life. And only Dawn can end a Long Night.
Beyond that, I think that Dawn is a shard of crystal, like the Wall. And I think that like the Wall itself, I believe Dawn can (and will) take flame.
Jon Snow turned away. The last light of the sun had begun to fade. He watched the cracks along the Wall go from red to grey to black, from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice. Down below, Lady Melisandre would be lighting her nightfire and chanting, Lord of Light, defend us, for the night is dark and full of terrors.
“Winter is coming,” Jon said at last, breaking the awkward silence, “and with it the white walkers. The Wall is where we stop them. The Wall was made to stop them … but the Wall must be manned. This discussion is at an end. We have much to do before the gate is opened. Tormund and his people will need to be fed and clothed and housed. Some are sick and will need nursing. Those will fall to you, Clydas. Save as many as you can.”
Oh! The symbolism here appeals to me. The sun is lightbringer. Praying nightly for the dawn harkens back to prehistoric fears that the sun would not return after sunset. I think Mel's fears and their ritual prayer have something to do with the long night when the sun doesn't actually reappear after sundown. But you would have to be a lot further north for that kind of long night.
Although I don't discount that there are actual hero's swords or a sun's son that will come into play.
Oh! The symbolism here appeals to me. The sun is lightbringer. Praying nightly for the dawn harkens back to prehistoric fears that the sun would not return after sunset. I think Mel's fears and their ritual prayer have something to do with the long night when the sun doesn't actually reappear after sundown. But you would have to be a lot further north for that kind of long night.
I have read accounts of people who pray every morning for the reappearance of the sun, in this world where day always comes. In a world where seasons were irregular, where there had been a long winter in the memory of living people, and where there had been a long night, you can be sure there would be many people praying for the dawn. I might be among them.
Oh! The symbolism here appeals to me. The sun is lightbringer. Praying nightly for the dawn harkens back to prehistoric fears that the sun would not return after sunset. I think Mel's fears and their ritual prayer have something to do with the long night when the sun doesn't actually reappear after sundown. But you would have to be a lot further north for that kind of long night.
I have read accounts of people who pray every morning for the reappearance of the sun, in this world where day always comes. In a world where seasons were irregular, where there had been a long winter in the memory of living people, and where there had been a long night, you can be sure there would be many people praying for the dawn. I might be among them.
Well said!
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Aemon seems to expect Lightbringer to burn with heat, not just light.
No offence to Aemon, but his reaction to Lightbringer is more telling of the fact that he isn't actually an expert on Lightbringer like he pretends, than it is an indication that he is an expert because he says that Lightbringer should be warm and Stannis' isn't.
I would, in my humble opinion as just a lowly fan and not someone worthy of an archmaester mask like himself, remind Aemon that Lightbringer required 3 forgings before the sword was right. Stannis' Lightbringer has only gone through one forging, the burning of the Seven at Dragonstone. Aemon dismissed the sword when the sword hadn't even yet been through all the stages that Azor Ahai went through. That is an error on his part. Of course the sword isn't completely right. Aemon should know that about ANY sword claiming to be Lightbringer.
It's also especially an error as Aemon dismisses the sword before Stannis even sacrifices Rattleshirt, which dramatically increases the power of his sword, as my signature shows. I like to consider that moment the second "forging" of his Lightbringer as he imbues the blade with the blood of a sacrifice. The light increased, it draws light in, and it's now almost a weapon it's so bright, but there's still no heat. But again, it's still not on its third try. It really should be missing the heat, exactly like it is.
Does any of this at all mean that Stannis' sword actually is Lightbringer? No, probably not. A fancy sword yes, that has some really interesting properties, but probably not Lightbringer. But it had never gone through the 3 forgings, so of course it was never going to display all the properties of Lightbringer. It SHOULDN'T.
Aemon shouldn't have been dismissing a sword as never being Lightbringer when it hadn't even had the history of Lightbringer. Well he should have dismissed it for not being complete as the sword couldn't be Lightbringer without the three forgings that Azor Ahai did. But the lack of heat meant nothing. A sword that hadn't under gone what Lightbringer had should be missing some characteristics of a completed Lightbringer. It doesn't mean it's not the sword though. Only a triple forged sword that didn't have the right characteristics should have been dismissed.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
I have a slightly different take on the forging of the sword by Lightbringer. I think that Dany is Azor Ahai and that she died in childbirth and was reborn amidst smoke and salt tears during Mirri Maaz Duur's ritual. When Beric is questioned about the other side; he say there is nothing only darkness. The last thing Dany sees when she is carried into the tent is the sky, black with no stars. When she wakes, the tears steam off her cheeks, she has temporary immunity from fire. So my guess is that she was raised by sorcery; blood and fire and that her unborn son was sacrificed in the equation of death pays for life. This would make her something like Melisandre but not fully transformed. She still needs to eat and sleep.
Drogo is the sword that is forged in water that breaks in two, his soul and body separated. If he had survived he would take Westeros for her. Recalling that the sword and the man are one. Something echoed in the oath of NW; something Syrio Forel tells Arya.
I think the prophecy in the HoU concerning the three fires she must light are related to forging the sword.
. . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . .
Do we read them top-down? In other words; a fire, a mount and a treason
- for life, to bed, for blood - for life, a bed of blood? - to death, to dread, for gold - one to love, one to love, once for love - Dany loves her children, the dragons
Euron seems to be following that ritual in a sense; including the sacrifice of holy blood (Aeron) and an unborn child. Aeron and his pregnant wife are tied to the bow of his boat; a sacrifice in water.
I think Melisandre is also trying to manufacture Stannis as AA. The first sword we see is an ordinary sword set on fire. The sword we see during the execution of 'Mance' is a glamored article along with Rattleshirt and the horn. She is overextending herself and afraid the fire within will get away from her until Jon puts an arrow into Rattleshirt. The sword that Aemon and Sam examine sounds like a glass candle. My guess is that the red sword is red obsidion; something that can heat up given the right sorcery.
No offence to Aemon, but his reaction to Lightbringer is more telling of the fact that he isn't actually an expert on Lightbringer like he pretends, than it is an indication that he is an expert because he says that Lightbringer should be warm and Stannis' isn't.
I am assuming Aemon is right because the Maesters think he is wrong. That probably isn't sound reasoning.
I would, in my humble opinion as just a lowly fan and not someone worthy of an archmaester mask like himself, remind Aemon that Lightbringer required 3 forgings
I wonder what the third would be for Stannis? There would be some satisfaction if it were Mel. And she might echo Nissa Nissa, giving herself willingly.
I think that Dany is Azor Ahai and that she died in childbirth and was reborn amidst smoke and salt tears during Mirri Maaz Duur's ritual.
I am expecting that we will find a number of echoes of Azor Ahai and of the Prince who was Promised. Ultimately, it may be ambiguous whether (and how) those prophecies were fulfilled. That does not mean the prophecies are meaningless -- they gives us hints at what came before and they will take on more meaning as people give them meaning, imaginatively fitting them to their reality
Aemon seems to expect Lightbringer to burn with heat, not just light.
No offence to Aemon, but his reaction to Lightbringer is more telling of the fact that he isn't actually an expert on Lightbringer like he pretends, than it is an indication that he is an expert because he says that Lightbringer should be warm and Stannis' isn't.
I would, in my humble opinion as just a lowly fan and not someone worthy of an archmaester mask like himself, remind Aemon that Lightbringer required 3 forgings before the sword was right. Stannis' Lightbringer has only gone through one forging, the burning of the Seven at Dragonstone. Aemon dismissed the sword when the sword hadn't even yet been through all the stages that Azor Ahai went through. That is an error on his part. Of course the sword isn't completely right. Aemon should know that about ANY sword claiming to be Lightbringer.
It's also especially an error as Aemon dismisses the sword before Stannis even sacrifices Rattleshirt, which dramatically increases the power of his sword, as my signature shows. I like to consider that moment the second "forging" of his Lightbringer as he imbues the blade with the blood of a sacrifice. The light increased, it draws light in, and it's now almost a weapon it's so bright, but there's still no heat. But again, it's still not on its third try. It really should be missing the heat, exactly like it is.
Does any of this at all mean that Stannis' sword actually is Lightbringer? No, probably not. A fancy sword yes, that has some really interesting properties, but probably not Lightbringer. But it had never gone through the 3 forgings, so of course it was never going to display all the properties of Lightbringer. It SHOULDN'T.
Aemon shouldn't have been dismissing a sword as never being Lightbringer when it hadn't even had the history of Lightbringer. Well he should have dismissed it for not being complete as the sword couldn't be Lightbringer without the three forgings that Azor Ahai did. But the lack of heat meant nothing. A sword that hadn't under gone what Lightbringer had should be missing some characteristics of a completed Lightbringer. It doesn't mean it's not the sword though. Only a triple forged sword that didn't have the right characteristics should have been dismissed.
Good call! Mayhaps he will sacrifice his daughter for the third forging? He loves her more than his wife; would be closer to the legend, though Mel would be better.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Does any of this at all mean that Stannis' sword actually is Lightbringer? No, probably not. A fancy sword yes, that has some really interesting properties, but probably not Lightbringer. But it had never gone through the 3 forgings, so of course it was never going to display all the properties of Lightbringer. It SHOULDN'T.
Maybe part of Stannis' problem will be that he is satisfied with the sword as it is. It was forged once. It lights up prettily. And it has not been tested.
Good call! Mayhaps he will sacrifice his daughter for the third forging? He loves her more than his wife; would be closer to the legend, though Mel would be better.
Of the three most likely candidates (daughter, Mel, wife), Shireen is least likely to give herself willingly, as Nissa Nissa did. But we may never get to that decision because Stannis did not temper the steel (assuming it is steel). He may not put his sword under stress until he tests it in battle. If it shatters, he is unlikely to have an opportunity to re-forge it.
I'm still not sold...i see symbols as i read about the lightbringer legend and then think it is not a single sword for one hero to wield but a metaphor for mans struggle against the dark.
Best guess to find it is in the words /chant from the nights watch vow - i am pure (I shall Take no wife. Hold no lands. Father no children ) I am strong (I shall wear no crowns and win no glory) I am enlighted (I shall live and die at my post.) I am the sword in the darkness (lightbringer)
All metaphors of tempering in symbolic water (purity- no temptation of the flesh) , a lion ( strength- no temptation of the personable )and a precious life (enlightened - a sacrifice of and for love )- as per the legend.
Egro the Night's Watch is lightbringer and it's leader(hero) might be AA