Thanks! And, yes, it really does! Sounds like you're having you're very own respiratory treat. You feel better too!
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Lulz, I lied. ACOK 23 isn't the Ice Visit, and all the corrections (that I have ID'd thus far) were in Jon's AGOT chapters. I think I had intention of extrapolating this to later books, but never did.
Anyway, moving on, nothing to see here..... I can eventually dump my findings in the AGOT forum if anyone is interested.
LOL yes, no doubt Jon looks more like a Stark than any of the rest of the kids. The thing I'm questioning though, is how would Craster know what a 'Stark look' is? As far as we know, he's only ever met one Stark and that's Benjen. So, unlike everyone else he doesn't have much to compare Jon to. Was there a previous Stark or Snow that was in the NW or even beyond the Wall living among the wildlings, while Craster was growing up? It's one thing to say, 'Jon looks like Benjen' but quite another to call Benjen's look and thus Jon's look a Stark look.
I think the possibility of another Stark on the Wall when Craster was younger seems reasonable.
Or he may just be doing what people do with my family. I look rather a lot like both of my sisters--and have had plenty of people who know one of them, but see me for the first time, say "Oh, you look like a Wren!" Based on two of us.
And there's always a possibility that, given how much Starks seem to be know of north of the Wall, that the "Stark look" is described and remembered but the wildlings.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Do we know how old Craster is? Is there a possibility that part of his curse is that he's been out there for generations?
I don't think we do know. It could be part of the curse. But it seems like the sort of thing he might brag about. . . maybe.
Long-lived Craster. Ugh!!
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Do we know how old Craster is? Is there a possibility that part of his curse is that he's been out there for generations?
Not sure about age or immortality, but some things about Craster:
1) he has that heavy gold band around his wrist…is it a bracelet, or a shackle? Compare to the descriptions of slaves’ bonds in Dany chapters. 2) he “bears a heavy curse” 3) he is “right with the gods” 4) he has a “cold smell” to him 5) he is the bastard son of a man of the Night’s Watch, a man whose name is never mentioned.
Now, I am going to go back and forth between Bran 56, ASOS, a chapter we know well, and a few chapters in ACOK/ASOS involving Craster. It may be nothing, and much will be Maester of the Obvious material to which many connections have already been made, but putting them in juxtaposition is interesting.
The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan's stories, the tale of Night's King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear." A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. *** "The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows." "What color are their eyes?" he asked her. "Blue. As bright as blue stars, and as cold."
Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well. *** She punched him again. "Craster's more your kind than ours. His father was a crow who stole a woman out of Whitetree village, but after he had her he flew back t' his Wall." *** "At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories," Jon went on. "She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children."
He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. *** His thick arms were covered with white hair, and about one wrist was a twisted ring of gold.
After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden. (Note: if all records of a man have been destroyed, what happens to his surname? One that would be passed on to his children?) *** “The wildling hated bastards, though the rangers said he was baseborn himself, fathered on a wildling woman by some long-dead crow.” *** "Who calls me bastard?" Craster roared, sweeping platter and meat and wine cups from the table with his left hand while lifting the axe with his right. *** “Craster's blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse."
After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden. *** "Is it Craster who frightens you, Gilly?" "For the baby, not for me. If it's a girl, that's not so bad, she'll grow a few years and he'll marry her. But Nella says it's to be a boy, and she's had six and knows these things. He gives the boys to the gods. *** …"He gives his sons to the wood." A long silence. Then: "Yes." And "Yes," the raven muttered, strutting. "Yes, yes, yes."
"What gods?" Jon was remembering that they'd seen no boys in Craster's Keep, nor men either, save Craster himself. "The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows." *** Or maybe it wasn't Mad Axe at all, maybe it was the thing that came in the night. The 'prentice boys all saw it, Old Nan said, but afterward when they told their Lord Commander every description had been different. And three died within the year, and the fourth went mad…
“Come the white cold, he does, and of late it comes more often. That's why he started giving them sheep, even though he has a taste for mutton. Only now the sheep's gone too. Next it will be dogs, till . . . " She lowered her eyes and stroked her belly. *** …and a hundred years later when the thing had come again, the 'prentice boys were seen shambling along behind it, all in chains. That was only a story, though. He was just scaring himself. There was no thing that comes in the night, Maester Luwin had said so. If there had ever been such a thing, it was gone from the world now, like giants and dragons.
“She went t' Castle Black once t' show the crow his son, but the brothers blew their horns and run her off." (One blast for returning brothers, two blasts for wildlings, and three blasts for Others. Why would the brothers blow their horns for one wildling woman with a child? Unless…she wasn’t a wildling woman per se?)
“The wildling hated bastards, though the rangers said he was baseborn himself, fathered on a wildling woman by some long-dead crow.” Night's King, also called the Night's King, is a legendary Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who lived during the Age of Heroes.
Yes, those are very interesting in juxtaposition. Plus I find it unbelievably odd that his mother "was said to be" from Whitetree. These are kin-based people. Someone would know his mother.
Cool. Those are choice. After finishing the Jon chapter I picked a few lines to add here and in my thread, eventually. Here is one line, which you quoted above, with a different emphasis.
At Winterfell one of the serving women told us stories,” Jon went on. “She used to say that there were wildlings who would lay with the Others to birth half-human children.” “Hearth tales. Does Craster seem less than human to you?” In half a hundred ways. “He gives his sons to the wood."
Ooooh, nice one! I totally overlooked that. But yeah, you're picking up what I'm putting down about Craster and his parentage! I gotta admit, I swooned at little bit when the connection between "his very name forbidden" and Craster's being so touchy about being called a bastard jumped out at me. Also the part about the NW blowing their horns when Craster's mother showed up at the Wall with her son - methinks there may have been a reason for some extra panic by the black brothers.
I thought about dumping this over in your Keep It In the Family thread - feel free to copy/paste anything you find relevant.
Plus I find it unbelievably odd that his mother "was said to be" from Whitetree. These are kin-based people. Someone would know his mother.
Well, the Night's King's name was blotted out. Might Craster's "family" have refused to claim him? And thus it's only "said" who is mother is vs. "known?"
Might be too big of a stretch. . .
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.