Post by whitewolfstark on Mar 22, 2016 4:17:07 GMT
The Cersei/Robert conversation is arguably the best additional scene of them all, arguably because the writers actually knew the characters well enough to spin the additional scene.
It's definitely IMO the best scene they've done. The acting is brilliant, but not only that I feel that it makes the show characters better than the book characters.
Robert pining over a woman who meant the whole world to him, who's missed so much that not even 7 kingdoms can compensate him for his loss, but that he can't even remember what she looks like it's been so long is heart wrenching. He can't even remember what he's grieving for, he just knows that his life isn't worth it without it.
And Cersei actually wanting them to be a good couple, who actually loved Robert for years, but Robert couldn't love her back, is also heart wrenching. She's not just going to later kill him because they have a bad relationship, she's going to kill him also because he couldn't love her.
Book Robert and Book Cersei's marriage did fall apart partially because of Robert never being able to get over Lyanna, but it also fell apart primarily because they just plain didn't ever really like each other. I find what happens to Robert is tragic, but their relationship itself isn't. It's just a bad relationship that wouldn't have worked out ever, whether Robert ever had met and lost Lyanna in the first place. The show scene however makes it that it's a doomed relationship IMO
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
I'm amazed at how much I don't remember from the show, once again. I didn't remember this scene at all and it totally blew me away. Unlike some of D&D's other additions, this one actually makes sense with who the characters are. It's a truly amazing addition to the story that doesn't make me cringe at all.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Moelle and Scolera were waiting to lead her back up to her tower cell. Unella followed close behind them. "We have all been praying for Your Grace," Septa Moelle said as they were climbing. "Yes," Septa Scolera echoed, "and you must feel so much lighter now, clean and innocent as a maid on the morning of her wedding."
I fucked Jaime on the morning of my wedding, the queen recalled. "I do," she said, "I feel reborn, as if a festering boil has been lanced and now at last I can begin to heal. I could almost fly." She imagined how sweet it would be to slam an elbow into Septa Scolera's face and send her careening down the spiral steps. If the gods were good, the wrinkled old cunt might crash into Septa Unella and take her down with her.
"My late husband loved the forest too." In the early years of their marriage, Robert was forever imploring her to hunt with him, but Cersei had always begged off. His hunting trips allowed her time with Jaime. Golden days and silver nights. It was a dangerous dance that they had danced, to be sure. Eyes and ears were everywhere within the Red Keep, and one could never be certain when Robert would return. Somehow the peril had only served to make their times together that much more thrilling. "Still, beauty can sometimes mask deadly danger," she warned the little queen. "Robert lost his life in the woods."
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Moelle and Scolera were waiting to lead her back up to her tower cell. Unella followed close behind them. "We have all been praying for Your Grace," Septa Moelle said as they were climbing. "Yes," Septa Scolera echoed, "and you must feel so much lighter now, clean and innocent as a maid on the morning of her wedding."
I fucked Jaime on the morning of my wedding, the queen recalled. "I do," she said, "I feel reborn, as if a festering boil has been lanced and now at last I can begin to heal. I could almost fly." She imagined how sweet it would be to slam an elbow into Septa Scolera's face and send her careening down the spiral steps. If the gods were good, the wrinkled old cunt might crash into Septa Unella and take her down with her.
"My late husband loved the forest too." In the early years of their marriage, Robert was forever imploring her to hunt with him, but Cersei had always begged off. His hunting trips allowed her time with Jaime. Golden days and silver nights. It was a dangerous dance that they had danced, to be sure. Eyes and ears were everywhere within the Red Keep, and one could never be certain when Robert would return. Somehow the peril had only served to make their times together that much more thrilling. "Still, beauty can sometimes mask deadly danger," she warned the little queen. "Robert lost his life in the woods."
Just wanted to say, sure Cersei was continuing her twincest, but Robert still alienated her. If he hadn't, Joff might've had a dark haired older brother to beat him up every now and then. Joff would've benefited from an older bro.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Just wanted to say, sure Cersei was continuing her twincest, but Robert still alienated her. If he hadn't, Joff might've had a dark haired older brother to beat him up every now and then. Joff would've benefited from an older bro.
And then there's the scary thought: what if the child had looked like Robert, but had the mind of Cersei--understanding his mother so that she could never pull a fast one over on him. ::dramatic::
Poor Joff would've been treated worse than Stannis, and might've had the personality to match.
Just wanted to say, sure Cersei was continuing her twincest, but Robert still alienated her. If he hadn't, Joff might've had a dark haired older brother to beat him up every now and then. Joff would've benefited from an older bro.
And then there's the scary thought: what if the child had looked like Robert, but had the mind of Cersei--understanding his mother so that she could never pull a fast one over on him. ::dramatic::
Poor Joff would've been treated worse than Stannis, and might've had the personality to match.
The Stag who Mounts the World
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Anyone else heard the theory that Gendry is the child mentioned by Cersei? He didn't actually die. Not a big fan of it myself since there is nothing in the books that mentions it.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Anyone else heard the theory that Gendry is the child mentioned by Cersei? He didn't actually die. Not a big fan of it myself since there is nothing in the books that mentions it.
Hmm never have, but an interesting idea. He does say his mother had yellow hair.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Oh I'm not trying to absolve Robert of anything, I'm just saying it's also fairly clear that Cersei never really had any intention at all of being a good wife. I don't know if things might've eventually caused a trueborn Baratheon child, or all straight bastard Lannisters had things gone a bit differently and Robert treated her a bit better, but from the book standpoint I don't really feel much of anything for Cersei cause she always hated him. Robert might've not cared for her and didn't want monogamy, but at least he seemed interested in giving it a shot and at least making their relationship amiable. Cersei didn't.
Whereas in the show version, she at least liked him and wanted them to work out, while Robert's still his normal book self. When the marriage doesn't work, and they become the later mess from the books which is what we see in season 1, then things make a lot more sense to me. It's a marriage that went horribly south, but could've been okay. Their book marriage is just a marriage that was never working anyways and was never going to be okay.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Oh I'm not trying to absolve Robert of anything, I'm just saying it's also fairly clear that Cersei never really had any intention at all of being a good wife. I don't know if things might've eventually caused a trueborn Baratheon child, or all straight bastard Lannisters had things gone a bit differently and Robert treated her a bit better, but from the book standpoint I don't really feel much of anything for Cersei cause she always hated him. Robert might've not cared for her and didn't want monogamy, but at least he seemed interested in giving it a shot and at least making their relationship amiable. Cersei didn't.
Did Robert seen interested in giving their relationship an amiable shot? I've never gotten that impression:
A Game of Thrones - Eddard X
"Wear it in silence, or I'll honor you again," Robert vowed. He shouted for a guard. Ser Meryn Trant stepped into the room, tall and somber in his white armor. "The queen is tired. See her to her bedchamber." The knight helped Cersei to her feet and led her out without a word. Robert reached for the flagon and refilled his cup. "You see what she does to me, Ned." The king seated himself, cradling his wine cup. "My loving wife. The mother of my children." The rage was gone from him now; in his eyes Ned saw something sad and scared. "I should not have hit her. That was not … that was not kingly." He stared down at his hands, as if he did not quite know what they were. "I was always strong … no one could stand before me, no one. How do you fight someone if you can't hit them?" Confused, the king shook his head. "Rhaegar … Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her." The king drained his cup.
A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII
How could they have all been so blind? The truth was there in front of them all the time, written on the children's faces. Ned felt sick. "I remember Robert as he was the day he took the throne, every inch a king," he said quietly. "A thousand other women might have loved him with all their hearts. What did he do to make you hate him so?" Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. "The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister's name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna."
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
Did Robert seen interested in giving their relationship an amiable shot? I've never gotten that impression
As she made her way through the ragged throng, past their cookfires, wagons, and crude shelters, the queen found herself remembering another crowd that had once gathered on this plaza. The day she wed Robert Baratheon, thousands had turned out to cheer for them. All the women wore their best, and half the men had children on their shoulders. When she had emerged from inside the sept, hand in hand with the young king, the crowd sent up a roar so loud it could be heard in Lannisport. "They like you well, my lady," Robert whispered in her ear. "See, every face is smiling." For that one short moment she had been happy in her marriage . . . until she chanced to glance at Jaime. No, she remembered thinking, not every face, my lord.
He was nice to her on their wedding and trying to make her smile and what not until he accidentally called her Lyanna while drunk. And Cersei even says that she went to their wedding bed wet and willing
"My late husband loved the forest too." In the early years of their marriage, Robert was forever imploring her to hunt with him, but Cersei had always begged off. His hunting trips allowed her time with Jaime. Golden days and silver nights. It was a dangerous dance that they had danced, to be sure. Eyes and ears were everywhere within the Red Keep, and one could never be certain when Robert would return. Somehow the peril had only served to make their times together that much more thrilling. "Still, beauty can sometimes mask deadly danger," she warned the little queen. "Robert lost his life in the woods."
And here Cersei says that Robert spent years trying to get her to be involved in his life, to come with him on his hunting trips. So he clearly was making a bit of effort here
Again, not saying he was ever a perfect husband but I see more effort on Robert's part than Cersei's part to try and at least make the marriage okay before it eventually just fell completely to hell with both of them hating each other.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Anyone else heard the theory that Gendry is the child mentioned by Cersei? He didn't actually die. Not a big fan of it myself since there is nothing in the books that mentions it.
Hmm never have, but an interesting idea. He does say his mother had yellow hair.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
The Cersei/Robert conversation is arguably the best additional scene of them all, arguably because the writers actually knew the characters well enough to spin the additional scene.
It's definitely IMO the best scene they've done. The acting is brilliant, but not only that I feel that it makes the show characters better than the book characters.
I agree with both of you that it is a fantastic scene. But at the same time, it seems to me that if Robert and Cersei had enough meta-perspective on themselves and their marriage, they wouldn't be the characters we know. They seem to lack self-reflection necessary to actually have such discussion.
