Where did this come from?! Is there a theory that says it was Dany?
my friend told me just after watching the episode, so guessing it must have been some theory that had come up the previous time it was mentioned that Varys heard a name
I liked the play scene so glad the mummers showed up that was very well done, the props, the tricks, the changing scenes with black background and throne, the way they simplified all the characters, and exaggerated them. The way they adapted the appearance, especially tyrion and ned. sansas boobs. wow, well played. it was an inception of meta.
I liked the play scene so glad the mummers showed up that was very well done, the props, the tricks, the changing scenes with black background and throne, the way they simplified all the characters, and exaggerated them. The way they adapted the appearance, especially tyrion and ned. sansas boobs. wow, well played. it was an inception of meta.
There was way too much penis.
I am the hybrid prophesied to return to Westeros.org and stand in its ashes.
Leaving aside the question of who his father is, what is the plot impact going to be of Jon discovering that he's not Lord Eddard's son? I know it's BC's preferred reading that learning about Lyanna makes Jon "more Starky" or w/e, but that doesn't seem to be the journey the show is setting up for him; if anything, it's like Jon's just starting to become comfortable with his place in House Stark, only to have the rug pulled out from under him.
Yeah this is a little weird- they're really hardcore playing him up as a Stark, and not just any Stark but Ned's son. As Lyanna's son, he would still be half Stark, so it shouldn't come as that much of a shock... he would still be related to Ned who raised him, and he would know that Ned chose to do so (unless Bran is a dick about it and tells him she had to beg him to do it, lol). Even more now, I feel like there is some sort of a dark secret associated with the TOJ that goes far beyond who Jon's parents are. The reveal will be shocking and sad/dark/scary. All I can say is that damn tower scene has a lot to live up to!!
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
That's assuming there will be a rug pull, and not that they're setting up that the last son of the quiet wolf will assume his long denied place as his father's son
Very fair point. And given how hard the show is making him into Ned's heir, it would be emotionally satisfying if he ends up being Ned's.
Though I still think they spent money and time on the Arthur scene for a reason.
when has the show ever been subtle? they do subtle just about as well as John Spartan (Stalone) from Demolition Man. (and now i can't get, "Enhance your calm Jon Snow, Enhance your calm" out of my head...)
Very true, ser! Yet another reason I think that fight with Arthur might mean Arthur is Jon's father.
Well, I wouldn't get too much into where the materials come from. I think the point really is that Sansa sews the cloak and that it is meant to be similar to Ned's cloak. The question is, what does that mean? Yes, I think it's supposed to link Jon to Ned but I also think my first thought is valid so I shall repeat that:
Giving Jon a self-made cloak also seems significant. Sansa is very tied to sewing and weaving, a hidden topic in the books I've also written about. Weaving represents the weaving of magic, particularly illusionary magic and relates to camouflage and hiding (an example: Mel's glamours). In a nutshell, she gives Jon a symbolical wolfskin cloak of 'invisibility' - the real wolf here being Ghost. I think it's important she gives him a cloak and not a helm (mythological helm of darkness). The latter appears to correlate with 'darkness' in general - think of the Hound's helm, his tormented soul and the effect Thoros thinks the helm has on Lem. Gendry refusing to sell Ned his bull-helm is a good thing.
I've linked the cloak to Ghost here. Even if you do not subscribe to the above, consider this: In Meera's KotLT story, Ned is known as the 'Quiet Wolf'. What is Ghost if not a quiet Wolf?
HA! Yes--my point was that they aren't even being subtle about it. They also put him in clothes almost exactly like Ned's from the tower scene as well as Ned's at his execution.
So, as you said, all the symbolism is there.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I never even considered Jon being anything other than lord commander. still have kind of a mental block thinking along those lines.
A fair point. Still, if he saves the North and unites them to fight the Walkers, he's kind of the ultimate Lord Commander, no? He even has a new Super Northman Ned Cape!
Even more now, I feel like there is some sort of a dark secret associated with the TOJ that goes far beyond who Jon's parents are. The reveal will be shocking and sad/dark/scary. All I can say is that damn tower scene has a lot to live up to!!
Well, if it turns out Ned killed Jon's father, that would be pretty dark, no?
But yes, that scene better be good. The fight was excellent. The follow-up better not drop the ball.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Yeah this is a little weird- they're really hardcore playing him up as a Stark, and not just any Stark but Ned's son.
Well assuming that Jon turns out to be Lyanna's son and not Ned's, then I'd say that the "Nedification" of Jon this season has been precisely to more shock the audience if they turn him out to be Lyanna's son. That the decision is more to attract shock and ratings when this guy who looks, moves, and acts like Ned isn't actually Ned's son.
They could've just left him in black or whatever, but they've been consciously depicting him into Ned 2.0 so that if they reveal he's not actually Ned's son that it might get them better ratings IMO. Just that it would come across as more shocking given how little he's actually like Lyanna then.
And given how hard the show is making him into Ned's heir, it would be emotionally satisfying if he ends up being Ned's.
This also does make a lot of sense too. Jon was the bastard who was never actually allowed to truly be Ned's son. The "Nedification" of him this season as he steps up and presents himself as Ned Stark's son works wonderfully too. He's stepping into the light and reminding the north and the audience that he might have the last name Snow instead of Stark, but his father was still Ned.
So I see it both ways. Could work to make a possible reveal that he's actually Lyanna's to be more impactful, could also make Jon's ascension to Ned's heir also easier.
Though I still think they spent money and time on the Arthur scene for a reason.
*Cough* Dany *Cough*
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!