I'm still amazed the Faceless Men didn't know about Needle.
She got rid of everything else, and was pretty slick about Needle. I don't think they would understand where it came from, Jaquen just saw Arry with it and assumed it was picked up for her protection. So there is no way for them to know that it is Jon and Winterfell and home. just another weapon to NoOne, but so much more to Arya...
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
We're bound to see some cool, game changing shit from Arya right?
The Waif won't set it on fire, but mayhaps Mel will? i seem to recall Mel and Arya meeting on the show in season 3 or 4 iirc, and there was something in that encounter that made me think it won't be the last time they come across each other... Arya sees Mel manipulating Jon and sticks Needle through her throat, and it bursts into flame forevermore.
The Waif won't set it on fire, but mayhaps Mel will? i seem to recall Mel and Arya meeting on the show in season 3 or 4 iirc, and there was something in that encounter that made me think it won't be the last time they come across each other... Arya sees Mel manipulating Jon and sticks Needle through her throat, and it bursts into flame forevermore.
Needle is Lightbringer, it is known. lol
That's exactly where I was going with that. Needle is the only named sword that was forged in Winterfell, and made by a Stark for a Stark. It's no coincidence that these two, who look the most like Starks and act the most like Starks, are also the only ones with living direwolves and named swords... I'm mostly kidding. I don't think Needle is special in a magical way, but would love it if it has an important role to play somehow. Aside from keeping Arya grounded in her identity, which I guess is important too, lol.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
Maester Sam all kidding aside, i think Needle's purpose is to remind Arya of who she is, and to shatter her illusions of being NoOne when that time came. Castle forged steel isn't a joke, and Mikken did good work (Poliver took no time in keeping it for himself), but it certainly isn't more than that to my reading.
i think that Robb and Bran were/are very Starkish, hard to say with Rickon (although he might have the most wolfblood in him based on how wild he got after Ned and Cat left). Sansa is the only one of the kids that didn't act like a Stark, but i think she is starting to change, although she'll always be the most southron of the kids.
You might be onto something with the only living direwolves tho... i hadn't thought of it that way
Maester Sam all kidding aside, i think Needle's purpose is to remind Arya of who she is, and to shatter her illusions of being NoOne when that time came. Castle forged steel isn't a joke, and Mikken did good work (Poliver took no time in keeping it for himself), but it certainly isn't more than that to my reading.
It was the one part of herself she couldn't give up.
i think that Robb and Bran were/are very Starkish, hard to say with Rickon (although he might have the most wolfblood in him based on how wild he got after Ned and Cat left). Sansa is the only one of the kids that didn't act like a Stark, but i think she is starting to change, although she'll always be the most southron of the kids.
Robb, sure. He didn't look like a Stark the way Jon does, but he did act very much like one (esp. when beheading Lord Karstark b/c it was "justice", even when this hurt his cause. This is the kind of thing Ned would have done). However, in the end he chose a girl over his direwolf, which was his downfall...
As for Bran- I don't see any Stark in him at all. He doesn't have the wolf blood as far as I can tell (yes he is young, but compare to wild Rickon for example, or Arya at his age, and Cat in AGOT thinks to herself how he is the sweetest of her kids, not like the others); he sucked at using a bow & arrow even before he was crippled, and his moral code- something the Starks are specifically known for- is becoming more corrupted by the day. He also named his wolf Summer, which makes NO sense for a Stark whose words are Winter is Coming.
I must confess, I dislike Bran as a character (mostly due to his abuse of Hodor for selfish reasons) so I may not be entirely objective when it comes to him - but what trait of his would you say marks him as a Stark? (The greensight/warging doesn't count, IMO, as we see similar gifts in Jojen, BR and Varamyr none of whom are Starks).
Rickon may be a true Stark, though it's hard to say with him only being 4 the last time we saw him.
You might be onto something with the only living direwolves tho... i hadn't thought of it that way
Thanks, though I must admit Jon and Arya were always my favorites (them and Sam ) so parallels between them tend to jump out at me. Kind of like Arya and Sam now both being armed with special swords when they weren't before.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
As for Bran- I don't see any Stark in him at all. He doesn't have the wolf blood as far as I can tell (yes he is young, but compare to wild Rickon for example, or Arya at his age, and Cat in AGOT thinks to herself how he is the sweetest of her kids, not like the others); he sucked at using a bow & arrow even before he was crippled, and his moral code- something the Starks are specifically known for- is becoming more corrupted by the day. He also named his wolf Summer, which makes NO sense for a Stark whose words are Winter is Coming.
his obsession with climbing showed wolfblood to me. i also think back on his behavior at the execution, and always trying to emulate Robb and Jon while being the stark in winterfell before Theon takes it point to him being more Starkish. HIs desire for knighthood was a Tully thing, and his mother's influence, but i don't find that he turned away from the old gods, and feel that his desire to be in the godswood often shows that he's always had a deep connection to the OGs. archery is a learned skill, and Bran was just getting to the age where he'd be trained in the bow, so it isn't a surprise that he wasn't a great archer. he was pretty good with training swords tho (beating Tommen handily and commenting on the Lyanna Benjen vision that Arya never beat him), and i see this as another emulation of Robb and Jon, who both turn out to be pretty good swordsmen, and even better commanders. Bran names his wolf Summer after his vision of the Heart of Winter, i don't find that to be going against the Stark ethos as much as dreaming of the spring following the long night Nan warned him of. Also, what better to fight off winter than its opposite?
i've always liked Bran, he's a character that had a short stick dealt to him taking away all his dreams. It is no surprise to me that he's made some questionable moral decisions after such a traumatic event. Yeah, warging Hodor isn't generally a good thing to do, but at times it was necessary in order to save all of them or keep them safe. it isn't easy ascending to godhood as a kid tho, hell, even Jesus got to wait until his late 20s haha
Rickon may be a true Stark, though it's hard to say with him only being 4 the last time we saw him.
I think Rickon hearkens back to the old Kings of Winter, a bunch as wild and bloodthirsty as they land they ruled. The Ned was a singular Stark in my opinion, having the Old Gods coursing from his veins while adhering to the honor code of Southron knights. Brandon didn't seem as honorable as The Ned, but few do. Rickard seemed an honorable sort, but behind that there was a win at all costs drive that seems counter to his son's professed ideals (i think the sequence at the ToJ shows that The Ned of RR still had that win at all costs mentality, especially when it comes to family). I doubt that the Starks before The Ned were viewed as these paragons of honor and chivalry, i think he earned that during RR and the Greyjoy rebellion, and the periods of peace in the interim. Other Starks would have followed the he who passes sentence swings the sword, i'm sure Eddard was on hand to Rickard dispensing the Kings justice much as Bran, Robb, and Jon were shown, but i don't think that honorable was the adjective used to describe most Starks of Winterfell before The Ned.
his obsession with climbing showed wolfblood to me. i also think back on his behavior at the execution, and always trying to emulate Robb and Jon while being the stark in winterfell before Theon takes it point to him being more Starkish. HIs desire for knighthood was a Tully thing, and his mother's influence, but i don't find that he turned away from the old gods, and feel that his desire to be in the godswood often shows that he's always had a deep connection to the OGs. archery is a learned skill, and Bran was just getting to the age where he'd be trained in the bow, so it isn't a surprise that he wasn't a great archer. he was pretty good with training swords tho (beating Tommen handily and commenting on the Lyanna Benjen vision that Arya never beat him), and i see this as another emulation of Robb and Jon, who both turn out to be pretty good swordsmen, and even better commanders.
I don't really disagree with any of this (except I'm not sure that climbing has anything to do with wolfblood, necessarily. None of the other Starks do it). He was very young when he fell, so he didn't have a chance to develop Stark traits that may have otherwise appeared (i.e. continuing his archery/sword training). The connection to the Old Gods is a fair point; that's very Stark-like, or at least FM-like. I'm just missing the very obvious Stark qualities, such as Jon turning down a lordship to save the Winterfell weirwood, or Arya praying to the heart tree at Harrenhal and having it talk back in Ned's voice. She also carries Needle with her as a reminder of Winterfell and her family; Jon is constantly dreaming of the crypts and has Ned's very strong moral code.. etc. But you're right, Bran isn't not a Stark, he just IMO doesn't radiate Stark-ness the way Jon and Arya do.
Bran names his wolf Summer after his vision of the Heart of Winter, i don't find that to be going against the Stark ethos as much as dreaming of the spring following the long night Nan warned him of. Also, what better to fight off winter than its opposite?
Ah, but this was my point (which I apparently didn't make very well): Starks are not supposed to fight off winter. They are the Kings of Winter (as opposed to the southron knights of summer); their words are Winter is Coming. Winter is their strength, their weapon, their element. Robert complains of the summer snows, but Ned just smiles and says they are common. Winters are hard in the north, but the Starks don't fear them.
i've always liked Bran, he's a character that had a short stick dealt to him taking away all his dreams. It is no surprise to me that he's made some questionable moral decisions after such a traumatic event. Yeah, warging Hodor isn't generally a good thing to do, but at times it was necessary in order to save all of them or keep them safe.
Absolutely- he's had a rough life. But he started treating Hodor like an animal back in ACOK, knowing Luwin disapproved, (i.e. when he said he wanted to smack him for not going in the crypts) and has continued to do so. I understand that he wargs him in an emergency, but in the books he does it often, and just for fun. He can't walk himself, so he uses Hodor, knowing it terrifies him and he hides in a "pit" in his mind "like a dog that's had all the fight whipped out of him" - and those are Bran's words describing the situation!! He keeps this from BR, Meera and Jojen b/c he knows it's wrong- so saying he's a little kid or he never learned that it's an abomination is not an excuse here. He is doing what Varamyr tried to do to Thistle, except with a victim that can't defend himself, can't leave and can't tell anyone. And now we know he will likely force Hodor to sacrifice himself for him at some point.... that, to me, is too dark to be a likable character. But hey, to each his own. I love Arya and she has certainly made some questionable decisions too.
I think Rickon hearkens back to the old Kings of Winter, a bunch as wild and bloodthirsty as they land they ruled.
Agreed! Rickon is young but very much a Stark; he has lots of wolf blood and the most aggressive direwolf, and he was chilling in the crypts, alone, at age 4. A future King of Winter if Ramsay doesn't flay him first.
should have listened to Grey Wind and taken the girl and left the family...
He should have kept his vow and married a Frey girl! It's what Ned would have done, most likely (if we believe that he gave up Ashara to marry Cat in his brother's place- which I admit is not confirmed, but likely).
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”