Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones

Direwolf Blitzer
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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 29, 2015 21:00:48 GMT voice likes this

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Post by Direwolf Blitzer on Jul 29, 2015 21:00:48 GMT

Before the Doom befell our previous home, I'd bothered myself to look up literally every Davos PoV (and every instance of the word "Davos") to try and figure out if there's a False Davos loose in the realm. I'm putting this thread up in order to motivate myself to do all the research again, but in the meantime: Anyone have any thoughts? He wakes up on that rock post-Blackwater sans os, as our French amis would say. From there, it's a pretty straight line from boat to dungeon to audience with the King to trip to White Harbor and I can't think of an occasion where we might have seen an imposter.

Is George having Mel mention finger bones just his way of metaphorically slapping us in the face with his member?

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 29, 2015 21:48:43 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Jul 29, 2015 21:48:43 GMT

Jul 29, 2015 21:00:48 GMT Direwolf Blitzer said:

Before the Doom befell our previous home, I'd bothered myself to look up literally every Davos PoV (and every instance of the word "Davos") to try and figure out if there's a False Davos loose in the realm. I'm putting this thread up in order to motivate myself to do all the research again, but in the meantime: Anyone have any thoughts? He wakes up on that rock post-Blackwater sans os, as our French amis would say. From there, it's a pretty straight line from boat to dungeon to audience with the King to trip to White Harbor and I can't think of an occasion where we might have seen an imposter.

Is George having Mel mention finger bones just his way of metaphorically slapping us in the face with his member?

Lol!

i need to reread ADWD again, but I wasn't sure if he was actually alive or not when supposedly his head and hands were tarred and hanging up at Chez Manderly. I know it was supposed to be a rouse (right?), but I wasn't convinced yet.

also, Davos losing his finger bones seems entirely too convenient.

ETA: we had the Stark boys faked and strung up with the Miller's boy's, which was why I wasn't sure it would happen again.

Last Edit: Jul 29, 2015 21:50:04 GMT by Mojo

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 2:34:55 GMT via mobile

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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 2:34:55 GMT

[quote author="Direwolf Blitzer"
Is George having Mel mention finger bones just his way of metaphorically slapping us in the face with his member? [/quote]

Whoa.

I do remember thinking it was strange for Mel to mention finger bones. When is the last time they crossed pre-os-sansing? Wasn't it in the dragonstone dungeons?

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 3:14:50 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 3:14:50 GMT

Jul 30, 2015 2:34:55 GMT @morrigansraven said:

Direwolf Blitzer said:

Is George having Mel mention finger bones just his way of metaphorically slapping us in the face with his member?

Whoa.

I do remember thinking it was strange for Mel to mention finger bones. When is the last time they crossed pre-os-sansing? Wasn't it in the dragonstone dungeons?

I believe so, but hadn't he already lost his bones at Blackwater? Or do you and/or Direwolf Blitzer think that was a trap?

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 Deleted inherit guest@proboards.com 9 0 May 18, 2024 17:10:24 GMT Deleted 0 May 18, 2024 17:10:24 GMT January 1970 Deleted	Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 4:27:13 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 4:27:13 GMT I think it is Davos the whole time, just my two cents.

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 11:04:43 GMT via mobile

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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 11:04:43 GMT

[quote author="Mojo" source="/post/3612/thread" timestamp="1438226090" I believe so, but hadn't he already lost his bones at Blackwater? Or do you and/or Direwolf Blitzer think that was a trap?
[/quote]

No, I think it's one Davos. And you're right, the finger bones were gone once he washed up on that rock, after Blackwater. And, Davos continues as a first person narrator; doesn't Un-Cat loose her 'voice' with her agency?

Direwolf Blitzer
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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 19:04:00 GMT

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Post by Direwolf Blitzer on Jul 30, 2015 19:04:00 GMT

Jul 30, 2015 15:58:43 GMT @serduncan said:

However, when was the last time Davos checked that the finger bones in his pouch were actually his bones? As far as I recall he only ever touches the outside of the pouch and assumes they are still in there.

Now that... that is a thought.

Jul 30, 2015 4:27:13 GMT princeofghost said:

I think it is Davos the whole time, just my two cents.

FWIW, I do, too. It's just too obvious a clue for me to ignore it. Red herring? Foreshadowing? If you read her interaction with Davos, there are some indications of magic afoot.

Then one night as he was finishing his supper, Davos felt a queer flush come over him. He glanced up through the bars, and there she stood in shimmering scarlet with her great ruby at her throat, her red eyes gleaming as bright as the torch that bathed her. "Melisandre," he said, with a calm he did not feel. (aSoS, Davos III)

Could just be the fact that she's literally on fire underneath her glamor.

She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather.
"My heart," Davos said slowly, "is full of doubts."

The ruby glows, she lays hands on Davos... trying some kind of compulsion? Davos' response does seem... affected. And she may be trying it on Stannis, later:

"You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you." Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. "Give me this boy," she whispered, "and I will give you your kingdom."
"He can't," said Davos. "Edric Storm is gone." (aSoS, Davos VI)

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 19:33:59 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 19:33:59 GMT

Jul 30, 2015 19:21:55 GMT @serduncan said:

Maybe I'm miss remembering but at one point don't Davos and Stannis talk about the lords he has left on his side? There is a line in there where Stannis says he knows already that certain lords have bent the knee, and Davos is agreeing with him. It almost sounded like Stannis was just relaying the info he had already gotten from Davos' diplomacy. But Davos is thinking, yes he should speak to those lords, meaning he hasn't talked to them yet.

Or I could be completely off on this, LOL.

what do you mean? I don't remember this part?

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 30, 2015 20:03:42 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 20:03:42 GMT

Jul 30, 2015 19:48:22 GMT @serduncan said:

Jul 30, 2015 19:33:59 GMT Mojo said:

what do you mean? I don't remember this part?

I'll see if I can find it later. But like I said I probably made it up.

The conversation is one that takes place when Davos is made Lord Seaworth, I think.

Not suggesting it's fanon, semi-canon, or head canon- I just don't recall the exchange. I don't think I paid as close attention to Davos, though.

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Jul 31, 2015 16:01:57 GMT via Tapatalk

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Post by voice on Jul 31, 2015 16:01:57 GMT

It certainly seems rather convenient that Davos lost his fingerbones, and that Mel then mentioned such as an ingredient for a glamour. Either she's done it, and there is another Davos about, or she's planning on creating a backup. I lean towards the latter.

Davos is a useful face to have on tap. Stannis heeds his advice, he's relatable, non-threatening... It's a very interesting idea in any case.

Such a strange reference there from Mel. Maybe it's too strange and purposeful to be without purpose.

"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Aug 3, 2015 1:26:06 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Aug 3, 2015 1:26:06 GMT

So I'm not suggesting that Stannis is a glamour or anything, but I thought of this thread when I came across this passage:

As he neared, she saw that Stannis wore a crown of red gold with points fashioned in the shape of flames. His belt was studded with garnets and yellow topaz, and a great square-cut ruby was set in the hilt of the sword he wore.

I wonder if the rubies also give Mel the power to control someone, kind of like possession, in a way. If so, she may have been able to influence someone to aid her in grabbing Davos' finge bones.

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 Deleted inherit guest@proboards.com 9 0 May 18, 2024 17:10:24 GMT Deleted 0 May 18, 2024 17:10:24 GMT January 1970 Deleted	Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Aug 3, 2015 2:17:45 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 2:17:45 GMT I think Mel does have strong influence on those that wear the big red rubies.

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Aug 3, 2015 17:45:32 GMT Mojo likes this

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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 17:45:32 GMT

However, when was the last time Davos checked that the finger bones in his pouch were actually his bones? As far as I recall he only ever touches the outside of the pouch and assumes they are still in there.

This for sure. I'm almost at the Battle of the Blackwater in my reread; I'm going to go through Davos chapters again and look for mentions of Mel getting suspciously close to him. Like this:

The wind was shifting, Davos could feel it, see it in the way the black canvas rippled. He reached for the halyards. "Help me bring in the sail. I'll row us the rest of the way."

Together they tied off the sail as the boat rocked beneath them. As Davos unshipped the oars and slid them into the choppy black water, he said, "Who rowed you to Renly?"

Maybe there are more?

Methinks there may have been a switch made....and perhaps before the battle; hence why his bones brought him ill luck instead of good.

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Aug 3, 2015 18:27:43 GMT

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Post by Mojo on Aug 3, 2015 18:27:43 GMT

Aug 3, 2015 15:41:10 GMT @serduncan said:

Now if she's controlling the object/person the ruby is placed on, and since a sword is not a shackle that has continuous skin contact, I think the ruby is there to control the effect on the sword. Meaning she's using it to keep the glamour of it being the glowing, magical sword Lightbringer without having to continuously replenish her work or redo the enchantment.

Yep, I was reading the parley with Renly and noticed the clues about his sword actually being magic, something I wasn't really picking up before. The chapter goes into more detail about the sword radiating heat, I believe.

Have you noticed also how prominent rubies are in the books now that we know about them? Not just Rhaegar, but Joffrey and and Cersei as well after Robert's death. They wore black with rubies; also Targ colors. It would be interesting to do a search and check all the ruby mentions, I may have to do that.

I'll pay attention to Davos, too. I'm a bit behind BB on my reread. Renly has died, but haven't got to the Mel & Davos scene yet.

“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones Aug 5, 2015 7:02:04 GMT Mojo likes this

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Post by Lady Dyanna on Aug 5, 2015 7:02:04 GMT

So. Here's the original quote from Melisandre.

“The bones help,” said Melisandre. “The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man’s boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man’s shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer’s essence does not change, only his seeming.”

Well, we all know who to connect the fingerbones with, and I'm not sure about the hank of hair, but I did find this quote about boots interesting...

This time she did not hesitate . “Dareon is dead. The black singer who was sleeping at the Happy Port. He was really a deserter from the Night’s Watch. Someone slit his throat and pushed him into a canal, but they kept his boots.”“Good boots are hard to find.”“Just so.” She tried to keep her face still. “Who could have done this thing, I wonder?”“Arya of House Stark.”

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Mel, Davos, and Finger Bones

Post by Direwolf Blitzer on Jul 29, 2015 21:00:48 GMT

Post by Mojo on Jul 29, 2015 21:48:43 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 2:34:55 GMT

Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 3:14:50 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 4:27:13 GMT

Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 11:04:43 GMT

Post by Direwolf Blitzer on Jul 30, 2015 19:04:00 GMT

Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 19:33:59 GMT

Post by Mojo on Jul 30, 2015 20:03:42 GMT

Post by voice on Jul 31, 2015 16:01:57 GMT

Post by Mojo on Aug 3, 2015 1:26:06 GMT

Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 2:17:45 GMT

Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 17:45:32 GMT

Post by Mojo on Aug 3, 2015 18:27:43 GMT

Post by Lady Dyanna on Aug 5, 2015 7:02:04 GMT