Sacrifice Rhaegar

What chapters should I read to get a better idea? The Summerhall stuff is pretty hazy for me. Is it in Storm somewhere, or is this from the novellas? I've only read the first ones.

I have a ton to say on this, but first, did you see this theory at W a while back? I thought this was quite the catch.

To add on to this thought, I will say that I don't think Rhaegar was to be the sacrificial Targ at Summerhall - I believe there was another child of the appropriate bloodline that would serve the purpose.  

OK, the crazy train is about to totally leave the rails here, apologies in advance.   Bear with me while I attempt to glue multiple cracked pots together.

Back on W after the World Book came out and revealed more background about Aerys II's reign, I noted something unusual.  I'll just repost it here to save myself some typing.

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(Kicking off with post from a person to whom I was responding)

Was musing a bit on this, and while I agree that royal bastardy does not seem to be unusual, what DOES seem to be unusual is the total absence of living ones via Aerys II.

Of course we are no strangers to Royal Bastards scattered throughout the realm:    we have recount of Aegon’s numerous bastards Great and otherwise, other Targ products from the wrong side of the blanket here and there, current-universe knowledge of Robert’s brood, etc.    The WB suggests that the Mad King had his share of mistresses from all lands and walks as well. However, there are no mentions of any offspring, even though his infidelity career seemingly spanned 13 years and purportedly didn’t end until after the death of Jaehaerys in 274.

The only children we’re told of (by a pro-Baratheon/pro-Lannister maester to boot) are those produced by Rhaella. Furthermore, it seems odd to me that there is no mention of the mistresses either, highborn or common, save for the one that he had executed upon suspicion of poisoning Jaehaerys in 274. Joanna is the only paramour we know by name, and the saving grace of her marriage to Tywin is probably what earned her a mere dismissal from court instead of another grimmer fate.

In addition, there is the still-unexplained throwaway line in AGOT by Ned to Robert regarding standing up to the Mad King to “put an end to the murder of children.” (There is also a show mention by Robert of Aerys “murdering women and babies” but I use that for reference support only.) The WB notes that by 270 Aerys believed that Rhaella was being unfaithful and all her failed pregnancies happened because  the gods would not want a bastard to sit the Iron Throne.

Based on the above, it is my conclusion that someone in the Targaryen royal family (and I suspect Aerys himself) was ordering/overseeing the murder of his bastard children, and possibly their mothers as well. (We see this repeated with Cersei in regard to Robert’s spawn too.) Not only are these bastard children an embarrassment to the IT, they are a danger to it….especially given Rhaegar as the only heir thus far. Should something happen to him…..well, we know the Dance, so to speak.

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Now this exchange was primarily related to the possibility of A+J = T, but after thinking about dragonseeds, I believe it might be pertinent to Summerhall as well.


First, let's back up to talk about the Targ family circa 259.

Aemon is at the Wall, his sisters married into other families and produced who knows how many half-Targ kids.
Aerion's infant son and any of his descendants are long out of the picture.
There's Egg, and his sons Duncan, Jaehaerys, Daeron, Shaera, and Rhaelle.  
Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones are not said to have children, and Duncan is out of the line of succession now anyway.
Daeron is gay. Even more problematic, Daeron is dead.
Rhaelle is already married to Ormund Baratheon and has borne Steffon, who is now 13.
Jaehaerys has been married to Shaera, and had only Aerys and Rhaella as children.
The woods witch prophesied that TPTWP would come of their line; Jaehaerys forced them to marry because of it.
Rhaegar is the LAST child of this particular line of Targaryen blood.

By 259, Aerys and Rhaella are the only two Targs left that are young enough to have children of full Targaryen blood.    I'm dubious that any of the seven Targs at this point in time were going to voluntarily sacrifice the last of their "pure" line in a dragon-hatching ceremony.

HOWEVER....we do know that these nutty ceremonies DO require a sacrifice....and the ones we've heard about so far involve king's blood.   What's a good source of king's blood if you don't have any immediate family members around that you can use? 

Dragonseeds.

Had there been any half-Targaryen bastards floating about in the brothels or slums of King's Landing or outposts of Dragonstone, I have no doubt that their existence would be of utmost interest to any member of the royal family looking to bring back dragons via the use of blood magic.    I mean, the trick is certainly at the forefront of Mel's mind with regard to Stannis, right?


Gotta stop here as I'm leaving for the day, but I'll come back to finish my thought and start connecting the dots to Aerys.

Exactly. However, Summerhall didn't seem to be successful in the waking of an actual dragon....the winged reptilian variety, anyway. I wonder if this is because they didn't have the secret ingredient: the blood of TWO kings. "First the father, then the son, so both die kings." The blood was there, of course, but the succession was wrong if the prophecy order was right - JAEHAERYS should have died, not Duncan, who had already abdicated his inheritance.


Thus we add further ingredients to my crackpot stew:

1) the Summerhall Seven tried to sacrifice a Targaryen dragonseed - possibly one of the local "fruits", or perhaps another bastard from Essos. ::: "Why is it that it's always the innocent who suffer, when you high Lords play your game of thrones?"

2) Someone else knew the real recipe for the perfect dragon souffle, one that would rise and not fall again, and tried to make that happen (or not happen, depending on how you look at it and whether or not you believe Duncan's abdication was public knowledge) via "accidental fire". My bet is on the Faceless Men for myriad reasons, but that's another thread. Oh, and the dragon eggs seemed to have vanished too. Hmm, wonder who did that?

3) Aerys was trying to do this in private...using his own dragonseed that he was producing while cheating on Rhaella for 13ish years. I bet for every child that Rhaella conceived between Rhaegar and Viserys, there was an Aerys bastard sacrificed for it. The missing mistresses? The surprising lack of bragging by people who have a drop o'dragon blood via Aerys in them? Tywin's mystery trip tp Lys while Hand? Yeah. Aerys was looking for his fruits. It meant death for one to be found.

4) Speculation: something happened with this around the time of Viserys' birth - something that was a bit more public than intended. The high lords like Jon Arryn/Hoster Tully/Rickard Stark found out about it, and plotting began. "Why did we rise against Aerys Targaryen, if not to put an end to the murder of children?"

5) Further speculation: Aerys was going to pass the sacrificial torch on to Rhaegar, too. Father-son bonding moment: "So son, that's the birds and the bees, and how babies are made. Now let's talk about how to turn them into dragons."

6) Rhaegar wasn't pleased with Aerys' methods and decides to do something about it. Or, conversely, he is totally into it but wants to go the extra mile using the real recipe, the Cruroris Rex Duo, which he learned about from his books. I can't decide which path to take and I'm too tired to lay out each scenario right now, but the shared elements are blood magic, the blood of two kings, and a child.

Note:  the MISSING element is the willingness of the person to pay the price - perhaps the price of the thing they hold most dear in the world - to make the magic happen.    Dany paid it...and paid and paid and paid again.  And Dany has three dragons.


More later if anyone is interested and not ready to have me committed.

Yes I like this a lot BB! You always have such interesting theories!

Are you talking about raising the stone dragons at dragonstone, or fossilized dragon eggs like Dany had?

I like the dragonseed theory with Aerys etc. but it seems to me that Aerys failed with his bastards to bring back dragons.

I think as long as there were still living dragons around you didn't have to sacrifice unborn Targaryens to hatch dragons - the soul transfer happened naturally. Every once in a while a Targaryen or maybe a Targaryen paramour birthed a twisted dragonspwan stillborn which soul had transferred to an egg that than was able to hatch.

It was only after the last dragon died that it stopped happening and Aemon speaks thus of "eggs that would not hatch". If you believe Daario to be a faceless men you could argue that his mission is to impregnate Daenerys so that they can hatch the egg they got from Euron.

But without dragons around you need more - a ritual and a sacrifice - to hatch dragons and maybe you need exactly the right blood too (so no bastards). The Targaryens after Aegon the Dragonbane certainly seemed obsessed with finding the right woman (bloodline) to marry their heir to. I think the mistake they made is to think it matters which woman you marry to a Targaryen male instead of which male to marry to a Targaryen female. The true reasons for Targaryen incest is not to keep the bloodline pure but to keep the female line in the family (which btw. disappears with the Blackfyres). I sometimes wonder if Daenerys is the Blackfyre and Aegon the real Targaryen.

Anyway, to stop with the rambling I think Rhaegar was ultimately not sacrificed because someone prevented it (Varys or Ser Duncan) from happening.