Ser Jorah flushed red. "Mero shaved his beard, but you grew one, didn't you? No wonder you looked so bloody familiar . . ." "You know him?" Dany asked the exile knight, lost. "I saw him perhaps a dozen times . . . from afar most often, standing with his brothers or riding in some tourney. But every man in the Seven Kingdoms knew Barristan the Bold." He laid the point of his sword against the old man's neck. "Khaleesi, before you kneels Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, who betrayed your House to serve the Usurper Robert Baratheon."
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Also if he'd actually participated in more tourneys
Jorah did participate in lots of tourneys though. He started doing lots of tourneys after the Greyjoy Rebellion while he tried to continue to impress Lynesse
It was as a tourney champion that I had won her hand and heart, so I entered other tourneys for her sake, but the magic was gone. I never distinguished myself again, and each defeat meant the loss of another charger and another suit of jousting armor, which must needs be ransomed or replaced. The cost could not be borne.
As I pointed out in my last post, Jorah did know Barristan and specifically mentions having seen him in tourneys. He says he only saw Barristan a dozen times in his life. If we take it that he was indeed at Harrenhal, there's 1, possibly more given that he could have seen Barristan many times over the 10 days (we'll conservatively say 2 though). He would have seen him at the Trident. There's 2 or 3. Barristan partook in the Greyjoy Rebellion as well. So there's 3 or 4. No reason not to think he also partook in the celebration at Lannisport for the victory over the Greyjoys. There's 4 or 5 sightings already accounted for before we start thinking about all the tournaments Jorah later entered/random other times he might have seen Barristan.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Ser Jorah flushed red. "Mero shaved his beard, but you grew one, didn't you? No wonder you looked so bloody familiar . . ." "You know him?" Dany asked the exile knight, lost. "I saw him perhaps a dozen times . . . from afar most often, standing with his brothers or riding in some tourney. But every man in the Seven Kingdoms knew Barristan the Bold." He laid the point of his sword against the old man's neck. "Khaleesi, before you kneels Ser Barristan Selmy, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, who betrayed your House to serve the Usurper Robert Baratheon."
That quote also proves your point: he only saw him from afar most often. If he knew him well, would've recognized him quicker, I think.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Also if he'd actually participated in more tourneys
Jorah did participate in lots of tourneys though. He started doing lots of tourneys after the Greyjoy Rebellion while he tried to continue to impress Lynesse
It was as a tourney champion that I had won her hand and heart, so I entered other tourneys for her sake, but the magic was gone. I never distinguished myself again, and each defeat meant the loss of another charger and another suit of jousting armor, which must needs be ransomed or replaced. The cost could not be borne.
As I pointed out in my last post, Jorah did know Barristan and specifically mentions having seen him in tourneys. He says he only saw Barristan a dozen times in his life. If we take it that he was indeed at Harrenhal, there's 1, possibly more given that he could have seen Barristan many times over the 10 days (we'll conservatively say 2 though). He would have seen him at the Trident. There's 2 or 3. Barristan partook in the Greyjoy Rebellion as well. So there's 3 or 4. No reason not to think he also partook in the celebration at Lannisport for the victory over the Greyjoys. There's 4 or 5 sightings already accounted for before we start thinking about all the tournaments Jorah later entered/random other times he might have seen Barristan.
Forgive me, it's been a while since I reread ASOS (I've been making my way through the series on another go around at a turtle pace, and I'm getting closer to the end of ACOK at the moment).
Nothing to forgive lol. It's actually a good point though to point out that Jorah didn't participate in tourneys... during Rhaegar's lifetime. And while it's not an exhaustive list I made, the fact that he says he only saw Barristan around 12 times in his life, and we've only got 2 times prior to Rhaegar's death, rather supports that Jorah didn't see Rhaegar often, if ever more than those same 2 times as he saw Barristan: Harrenhal and the Trident.
So actually you and Mojo quite helped me out here as I'd forgotten Jorah's quote about Barristan. The amount of times that Jorah's seen Barristan during Rhaegar's life fits with the amount of times he's seen Rhaegar.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
So actually you and Mojo quite helped me out here as I'd forgotten Jorah's quote about Barristan. The amount of times that Jorah's seen Barristan during Rhaegar's life fits with the amount of times he's seen Rhaegar.
Thanks! One more: in Dany I when Aristan says he saw Rhaegar play his harp with silver strings, Jorah points out that so did thousands at a harvest feast. So when he told Dany Rhaegar had the silver harp after HotU, it was something considered common knowledge in W.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Nothing to forgive lol. It's actually a good point though to point out that Jorah didn't participate in tourneys... during Rhaegar's lifetime. And while it's not an exhaustive list I made, the fact that he says he only saw Barristan around 12 times in his life, and we've only got 2 times prior to Rhaegar's death, rather supports that Jorah didn't see Rhaegar often, if ever more than those same 2 times as he saw Barristan: Harrenhal and the Trident.
Was just going to say that these are the only two confirmed times Rhaegar and Jorah were in the same geographical area at the same time.
I was going to ask if there was any possibility Jorah himself might have gone to King's Landing in order to let the Small Counsel know he's head of House Mormont and that Jeor took the black. But I can't find one instance of this happening for any lord so I guess there is no precedence.
I think you're thinking of doing homage for one's lands. If anything this likely happened with Jorah going to Winterfell, but I can't see him going to King's Landing.
I think you're thinking of doing homage for one's lands. If anything this likely happened with Jorah going to Winterfell, but I can't see him going to King's Landing.
Ah yes! That's what I was confusing.
And now I remember them reading raven mail in the Small Counsel of what's going on, even when the LC is new, and not even the warden has to show up for his title to be declared. I'm thinking of Robert Arryn taking over for Jon.
I think the case of Robert Arryn was more of a special case considering the war going on at that point.
Joffrey demands that lords come to confirm their lordships & loyalty when he takes the throne, so it's definitely within the King's power.
I gotcha. So I'm both wrong and right (like most married men.) It's not necessary for the lords to show up when a change of Lordship* happens, but if the king wants them to, then they have to swear fealty.
*In the case of hereditary titles I mean.
Pretty much. A good case at looking how such an action was applied in real life, look at the TV series: The Devil's Crown. (Link takes you to a YouTube playlist where you can see it all!) It's a 1970s BBC mini-series... either 13 or 12 parts long...about the reigns of Henry II, Richard I, and King John and how the Angevin Dynasty rose and fell. It's a great series for acting, and I can't count how many times you see Henry or Richard doing homage to the King of France for their French lands after they've quarreled or fought. A brilliant actress (who'd I'd love to see more from) played Eleanor of Aquitaine in it and if the other performances don't capture you, it's well worth watching for her performance alone.
Granted it's a TV series stuck on a sound stage, but rather than have this be a negative, they instead had the artistic balls to turn it into a positive by making the sets look like the actors were moving about in a Medieval art landscape so the entire set is stylized to look like a Medieval painting brought into 3D which makes for some rather clever and artistic creation that rather adds to the action of the story. It's like they knew they couldn't get 100% realistic sets so they decided to go with as stylized a look as they could rather than trying to hide the stylization--and the effect is awesome.
But yeah, in that series you get to see a whole bunch of cases of what to do homage for.