Okay the series we read are called A Song of Ice and Fire, according to Rhaegar this song belongs to Prince That Was Promised, now my knowledge on Tolkien was better during high school years but Melkor is a Valar of Ice and Fire and when Ainur was singing together Melkor shows discord among his group, I think they sing three songs and at the end their music becomes a creation, what can Tolkien teach us about ASOIAF? Was there discord between CotF, the Singers? How come Rhoynar Long Night has a song when others don't? Is there a significance to Stranger not having a song?
Okay the series we read are called A Song of Ice and Fire, according to Rhaegar this song belongs to Prince That Was Promised, now my knowledge on Tolkien was better during high school years but Melkor is a Valar of Ice and Fire and when Ainur was singing together Melkor shows discord among his group, I think they sing three songs and at the end their music becomes a creation, what can Tolkien teach us about ASOIAF? Was there discord between CotF, the Singers? How come Rhoynar Long Night has a song when others don't? Is there a significance to Stranger not having a song?
I don't have much knowledge on this aspect of Tolkien. I have the Silmarillion, but I have only read bit's and pieces, never the whole thing. I did a bit of reading to refresh what little I do know and these things stood out to me. Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, and he later became know as Morgoth. So, a change in identity is interesting, along with his move toward darkness. And he is known as a destroyer of tree's (which is myth the destruction of these two tree's gave birth to the sun and moon, which is a theme of life coming from death), which might have some hints back to a theme of this story. We have the destroyed weirwoods all over Westeros in the past, and we have Mel and Stannis destroying the weirwood heart tree at Storm's End. Melisandre was once probably known by a different name, Melony, and she is known for singing songs as people die and things are destroyed. Also, I think his hand were burned at one point and never healed, and that reminds me of Jon Snow in some ways, and Morgoth's face was also scarred by a giant eagle, which also reminds me a bit of Orell's eagle attacking and scarring Jon's face. Melkor/Morgoth was also known by s large amount of epitath's which does remind me of Dany and her long list of titles. As to music, his deed's corrupted "music" which effected the Ainur, and in GRRM's story, "music" seems tied to the CotF. Eventually his soul/spirit was banished to "beyond the wall's of Night", which perhaps reminds me a bit of Bloodraven being stuck in a weirwood beyond the wall of ice but his presence is still felt in the world south of the wall. As to the Stranger in ASOIAF, I remember finding it interesting that Sansa Stark lights a candle to honor the Stranger in the Sept of Baelor (it seems very unlike her) and that Cersei threatens that she will bring the wrath of the Stranger down on Sansa Stark. Sansa is often associated with "songs" in this story! I don't know if any of these quick connections mean anything or are helpful or not.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Okay the series we read are called A Song of Ice and Fire, according to Rhaegar this song belongs to Prince That Was Promised, now my knowledge on Tolkien was better during high school years but Melkor is a Valar of Ice and Fire and when Ainur was singing together Melkor shows discord among his group, I think they sing three songs and at the end their music becomes a creation, what can Tolkien teach us about ASOIAF? Was there discord between CotF, the Singers? How come Rhoynar Long Night has a song when others don't? Is there a significance to Stranger not having a song?
I don't have much knowledge on this aspect of Tolkien. I have the Silmarillion, but I have only read bit's and pieces, never the whole thing. I did a bit of reading to refresh what little I do know and these things stood out to me. Melkor was the most powerful of the Ainur, and he later became know as Morgoth. So, a change in identity is interesting, along with his move toward darkness. And he is known as a destroyer of tree's (which is myth the destruction of these two tree's gave birth to the sun and moon, which is a theme of life coming from death), which might have some hints back to a theme of this story. We have the destroyed weirwoods all over Westeros in the past, and we have Mel and Stannis destroying the weirwood heart tree at Storm's End. Melisandre was once probably known by a different name, Melony, and she is known for singing songs as people die and things are destroyed. Also, I think his hand were burned at one point and never healed, and that reminds me of Jon Snow in some ways, and Morgoth's face was also scarred by a giant eagle, which also reminds me a bit of Orell's eagle attacking and scarring Jon's face. Melkor/Morgoth was also known by s large amount of epitath's which does remind me of Dany and her long list of titles. As to music, his deed's corrupted "music" which effected the Ainur, and in GRRM's story, "music" seems tied to the CotF. Eventually his soul/spirit was banished to "beyond the wall's of Night", which perhaps reminds me a bit of Bloodraven being stuck in a weirwood beyond the wall of ice but his presence is still felt in the world south of the wall. As to the Stranger in ASOIAF, I remember finding it interesting that Sansa Stark lights a candle to honor the Stranger in the Sept of Baelor (it seems very unlike her) and that Cersei threatens that she will bring the wrath of the Stranger down on Sansa Stark. Sansa is often associated with "songs" in this story! I don't know if any of these quick connections mean anything or are helpful or not.
This is a fantastic addition, the "heroes" like Jon, Daenerys and Bloodraven have similarities to Melkor plus Melkor seem to pull Smiths to his side, both Mairon/Sauron a Maia and Curumo/Saruman worked for Aule the Valar who is a Smith, and Azor Ahai was a Smith, line of Faenor seem to be related to Smith aspect as well?
Since Sansa is connected to singing, is she Luthien of ASOIAF?
Since Sansa is connected to singing, is she Luthien of ASOIAF?
Interesting. Luthien was said to be the fairest women in all the land, and Sansa is thought to be quite lovely, I think even Cersei is immediately jealous of her beauty. Luthien is associated with songs but her mother was truly a character associated with songs, which we don't see with Sansa and Catelyn. Luthien also was drawn to the forests, which I am not sure fit's Sansa, although in her time of captivity, she is drawn to the godswood at the Red Keep, which is the closest thing she can get to a forest, I suppose. Both are associated with "hound" characters, Sansa with Sandor Clegane the Hound and Luthein with Huan the Hound, an actual wolfhound, who was said to be as large as a small horse, which could fit the size of the direwolves. Luthien is then known for the song she sang after Beren's death, and Sansa is known for her signing as well as liking "song's"/stories. Since I do think there is magic in songs, especially in the communal aspect of singing, I do wonder of Sansa is tied to that in some way. It's set up in her singing the hymns of the Faith, I think. I guess I am going to have to get around to reading the Silmarillion. Tolkien is known to have compared his wife and himself to Luthien and Beren (himself) and I am sure that GRRM is aware of that influence. Luthien is also known by a separate identity, Tinuviel, while Sansa is known as Alayne, so this is perhaps another tie between them.
This is a fantastic addition, the "heroes" like Jon, Daenerys and Bloodraven have similarities to Melkor plus Melkor seem to pull Smiths to his side, both Mairon/Sauron a Maia and Curumo/Saruman worked for Aule the Valar who is a Smith, and Azor Ahai was a Smith, line of Faenor seem to be related to Smith aspect as well?
Thanks. Yes, there are several similarities to Melkor to several of our ASOIAF characters, and heroes are sometimes heroes and sometimes villains, depending on your point of view, which is something that GRRM is certainly playing with.
Good call on the aspect of the smith's, and that Azor Ahai was said to be a smith. This make me think this aspect is quite important, and might trigger with Gendry, our aspiring Smith, who's father has smith imagery all over him, he even is known for wielding a hammer in battle.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Since Sansa is connected to singing, is she Luthien of ASOIAF?
Interesting. Luthien was said to be the fairest women in all the land, and Sansa is thought to be quite lovely, I think even Cersei is immediately jealous of her beauty. Luthien is associated with songs but her mother was truly a character associated with songs, which we don't see with Sansa and Catelyn. Luthien also was drawn to the forests, which I am not sure fit's Sansa, although in her time of captivity, she is drawn to the godswood at the Red Keep, which is the closest thing she can get to a forest, I suppose. Both are associated with "hound" characters, Sansa with Sandor Clegane the Hound and Luthein with Huan the Hound, an actual wolfhound, who was said to be as large as a small horse, which could fit the size of the direwolves. Luthien is then known for the song she sang after Beren's death, and Sansa is known for her signing as well as liking "song's"/stories. Since I do think there is magic in songs, especially in the communal aspect of singing, I do wonder of Sansa is tied to that in some way. It's set up in her singing the hymns of the Faith, I think. I guess I am going to have to get around to reading the Silmarillion. Tolkien is known to have compared his wife and himself to Luthien and Beren (himself) and I am sure that GRRM is aware of that influence. Luthien is also known by a separate identity, Tinuviel, while Sansa is known as Alayne, so this is perhaps another tie between them.
This is a fantastic addition, the "heroes" like Jon, Daenerys and Bloodraven have similarities to Melkor plus Melkor seem to pull Smiths to his side, both Mairon/Sauron a Maia and Curumo/Saruman worked for Aule the Valar who is a Smith, and Azor Ahai was a Smith, line of Faenor seem to be related to Smith aspect as well?
Thanks. Yes, there are several similarities to Melkor to several of our ASOIAF characters, and heroes are sometimes heroes and sometimes villains, depending on your point of view, which is something that GRRM is certainly playing with.
Good call on the aspect of the smith's, and that Azor Ahai was said to be a smith. This make me think this aspect is quite important, and might trigger with Gendry, our aspiring Smith, who's father has smith imagery all over him, he even is known for wielding a hammer in battle.
Could Ulmo Valar of Waters be the Drowned God? I think in Silmarillion Ulmo is the only Valar who cares about Middle Earth, did Drowned God also cared about humanity and gave the Hero iron and fire to win against the Others? In fDany thread you seem to find similarities between Stark feast of death and Drowned Halls, is there a hint of kinship between Starks and Ironborn?
Plus Tolkien's Kings of Men aka Aragorn's lineage also practice incest although they have dark hair and grey eyes, is it a Stark incest in asoiaf we will learn about?
Could Ulmo Valar of Waters be the Drowned God? I think in Silmarillion Ulmo is the only Valar who cares about Middle Earth, did Drowned God also cared about humanity and gave the Hero iron and fire to win against the Others? In fDany thread you seem to find similarities between Stark feast of death and Drowned Halls, is there a hint of kinship between Starks and Ironborn?
Ulmo Valar is certainly tied to the sea's and the water's, and he is given credit for keeping the world alive during the time of darkness, the Sleep of Yavanna. But there is nothing in ASOIAF to associate the Drowned God for caring for the earth, his interest seems to be in reaving and celebrating. Ulmo was seen as a protector, though his wrath could be terrible, while the Drowned God doesn't seem to protect much, not even his own people. There are certainly some similarities, but I am not sure that GRRM is connecting these two that kind of way. But maybe, I suppose. This is also linked to the Darkening of Valinor, when the two tree's were destroyed and darkness fell on the world, and in this sense, it could almost hint at the Drowned God of our story might have been part of destroying a great tree (not necessarily tied to light, but maybe) because killing the demon tree Ygg and made a ship from it's wood. This is tied to the Grey King, who in part then is hinted at going into the ocean when his life was done, but he seems separate from the Drowned God himself.
As to the Feast of the Dead, it certainly has some similarities to the Drowned Halls, although that just seems like a watery Vahalla to me, and the Ironborn seem quite Viking like tome, even down to the long ships. Do the Stark's tie to the Iron Born? I don't know. We have hints that Theon's name is tied to the Stark King Theon, the Hungry Wolf, but I am not sure quite how they could be tied. I have also speculated on another thread that perhaps the Stark's chose the location of Winterfell for their castle because it was quite far from the sea, protecting them from those sea elements as well as people from the sea. This might turn out to be quite incorrect, but many aspects of the north and the iron born put them in opposition to each other. The Ironborn mock those buried under the ground (like the Stark's) and they feel that you become weaker the further you are from the sea. I suppose there could be recent kinship but ancient rivalry.
Plus Tolkien's Kings of Men aka Aragorn's lineage also practice incest although they have dark hair and grey eyes, is it a Stark incest in asoiaf we will learn about?
I think that is a major point that GRRM was trying to make, although I don't think Tolkien was, and I see these things as so similar, at least to me. I think Stark incest is intended to be a big reveal, but I am not sure GRRM has it in him to carry it out now, after the show derailed his writing process so badly. And public opinion would be probably pretty harsh. 20 years ago he might have had it in him, but I don't know that he does anymore. I think that's part of his hesitation in getting these books completed.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Could Ulmo Valar of Waters be the Drowned God? I think in Silmarillion Ulmo is the only Valar who cares about Middle Earth, did Drowned God also cared about humanity and gave the Hero iron and fire to win against the Others? In fDany thread you seem to find similarities between Stark feast of death and Drowned Halls, is there a hint of kinship between Starks and Ironborn?
Ulmo Valar is certainly tied to the sea's and the water's, and he is given credit for keeping the world alive during the time of darkness, the Sleep of Yavanna. But there is nothing in ASOIAF to associate the Drowned God for caring for the earth, his interest seems to be in reaving and celebrating. Ulmo was seen as a protector, though his wrath could be terrible, while the Drowned God doesn't seem to protect much, not even his own people. There are certainly some similarities, but I am not sure that GRRM is connecting these two that kind of way. But maybe, I suppose. This is also linked to the Darkening of Valinor, when the two tree's were destroyed and darkness fell on the world, and in this sense, it could almost hint at the Drowned God of our story might have been part of destroying a great tree (not necessarily tied to light, but maybe) because killing the demon tree Ygg and made a ship from it's wood. This is tied to the Grey King, who in part then is hinted at going into the ocean when his life was done, but he seems separate from the Drowned God himself.
As to the Feast of the Dead, it certainly has some similarities to the Drowned Halls, although that just seems like a watery Vahalla to me, and the Ironborn seem quite Viking like tome, even down to the long ships. Do the Stark's tie to the Iron Born? I don't know. We have hints that Theon's name is tied to the Stark King Theon, the Hungry Wolf, but I am not sure quite how they could be tied. I have also speculated on another thread that perhaps the Stark's chose the location of Winterfell for their castle because it was quite far from the sea, protecting them from those sea elements as well as people from the sea. This might turn out to be quite incorrect, but many aspects of the north and the iron born put them in opposition to each other. The Ironborn mock those buried under the ground (like the Stark's) and they feel that you become weaker the further you are from the sea. I suppose there could be recent kinship but ancient rivalry.
Plus Tolkien's Kings of Men aka Aragorn's lineage also practice incest although they have dark hair and grey eyes, is it a Stark incest in asoiaf we will learn about?
I think that is a major point that GRRM was trying to make, although I don't think Tolkien was, and I see these things as so similar, at least to me. I think Stark incest is intended to be a big reveal, but I am not sure GRRM has it in him to carry it out now, after the show derailed his writing process so badly. And public opinion would be probably pretty harsh. 20 years ago he might have had it in him, but I don't know that he does anymore. I think that's part of his hesitation in getting these books completed.
Hmm Drowned God as dark Ulmo killing the Two Trees Ygg and Nagga? Tolkien's most in your face incest is about Children of Hurin and that story has Elfs and Dragons, like Targaryens who do not cover their incest but for them it ends with tragedy?
I swear I responded to this a couple of days ago, but I must have not submitted it through. I don't know that story, except for doing a little research on it. The synopsis was a bit confusing for me, because it seems like there is a lot going on, and I am unfamiliar with most of it. I would say that the Targaryen's (as well as most Valyrian's) will end in tragedy, although whether that is because of incest or their megalomania in trying to control dragons, I am not sure. Sometimes I think the incest in GRRM's story is his homage to many world mythologies that seem to have this as a basis, especially with the more "god-like" of the families in this story. The Targaryen's are presented as god like, and while the Stark's and Dayne's are not gods, their 8,000 to 10,000 years on the planet ruling one location makes them rather god-like.
As to Ygg and Nagga, if they are like the world tree's that Tolkien wrote about, then they have almost opposite attributes than the other one. One perhaps is a weirwood and the other is the tree that Shade of the Evening is made from. That would in some ways mirror the great tree's Telperion and Laurelin, a silver and gold tree that represent the sun and moon.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
I swear I responded to this a couple of days ago, but I must have not submitted it through. I don't know that story, except for doing a little research on it. The synopsis was a bit confusing for me, because it seems like there is a lot going on, and I am unfamiliar with most of it. I would say that the Targaryen's (as well as most Valyrian's) will end in tragedy, although whether that is because of incest or their megalomania in trying to control dragons, I am not sure. Sometimes I think the incest in GRRM's story is his homage to many world mythologies that seem to have this as a basis, especially with the more "god-like" of the families in this story. The Targaryen's are presented as god like, and while the Stark's and Dayne's are not gods, their 8,000 to 10,000 years on the planet ruling one location makes them rather god-like.
As to Ygg and Nagga, if they are like the world tree's that Tolkien wrote about, then they have almost opposite attributes than the other one. One perhaps is a weirwood and the other is the tree that Shade of the Evening is made from. That would in some ways mirror the great tree's Telperion and Laurelin, a silver and gold tree that represent the sun and moon.
Like the Ptolemys? Hmm what would Weirwood and Shade of the Evening would represent? Maybe they are a nod to Gardens at the Eden? In Bible there are two trees, one of Knowledge and one of Eternal life, in Bible, Serpent tells Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge and YHWH says they become like him. In Quran it is different, Adam and zavc are given knowledge or dima, to know right from wrong, by God with their creation, Shaytan tells them to unite their family tree with his so their lineage will achieve immortality. So same but important differences, I wonder if Ygg and Nagga aren't real trees or dragons but two different group of people arriving Iron Isles?
Like the Ptolemys? Hmm what would Weirwood and Shade of the Evening would represent? Maybe they are a nod to Gardens at the Eden? In Bible there are two trees, one of Knowledge and one of Eternal life, in Bible, Serpent tells Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge and YHWH says they become like him. In Quran it is different, Adam and zavc are given knowledge or dima, to know right from wrong, by God with their creation, Shaytan tells them to unite their family tree with his so their lineage will achieve immortality. So same but important differences, I wonder if Ygg and Nagga aren't real trees or dragons but two different group of people arriving Iron Isles?
I suppose that Ygg and Nagga could be representative of several things. I tend to buy the tree idea more than the dragon concept, or even a monster of any sort, whether it's from the sea or not. I have also wondered if they are the same thing, only with different names. But if they are people, then you are thinking they are represented by tribes?
If weirwoods and shade of the evening are representative of two great tree's, then I would think they almost represent opposites or something in duality, similar to yin and yang. Weirwood remind a person of death or bodies, what with blood like leaves and bark like bones, while the shade tree's might represent an opposite of some sort. I know there are theories that tie the shade tree's to ironwood or ebony, and I guess that is possible, but we hear of ironwood tree's in Westeros and no one comments on blue leaves, so I think it must be something besides that. Ebony tree's might be possible though. Ebony and weirwood are talked about several times in combination of door's (at least 3 sets that I can think of) plus Dany's bench/throne in Meereen is made of ebony. The Mountain's skull is sent to Dorne in a box of ebony, which I find quite interesting. Does it work to bind or contain something? I think Ironwood is also considered a possibility for this because it's tied to the doorway to the Stark crypts, so might serve as a binding agent, and I would think it is the ironwood that is black, except we never hear of it being associated with blue-leaves. Maybe in Westeros the ironwood tree's don't get blue leaves, that is only something that happens in the soils of Essos? Just tossing idea's around.
The Ptolemy's certainly could be viewed as mad, and they might have been that way before they started to emulate past Egyptian practice and committing incest and regicide, but as to be truly descended from the gods, their connection came from Macedonia, and were considered royals, so it's possible that tie to being descended from the gods might have always been part of their concept. The first Ptolemy was one of the seven special body guards of Alexander the Great. There is some thought that he might have been a half-sibling of Alexander's by his father, Phillip of Macedonia. If that is the case, then Alexander and Ptolmy, as son's of Phillip, would be from the Argead dynasty of Macedonia. The House of Argos has a sun as their sigil, called the Vergina Sun, sometimes called a star instead of a sun, a solar symbol with rays emanating from it. The sun with rays actually reminds me of the Martell's, although I don't know if that is what GRRM intends it to be a call back too. Also, house Dayne is connected to a star, which could also be a starburst or sun. The sun god Helios was considered the patron god of the Argead dynasty of Macedonia and the flared sun symbol shows up often in imagery tied to Greek mythos.
This idea of seven body guards (called the somatophylakes) for King's Phillip and Alexander is something I was unaware of and it certainly hints back to the Kingsguard.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Like the Ptolemys? Hmm what would Weirwood and Shade of the Evening would represent? Maybe they are a nod to Gardens at the Eden? In Bible there are two trees, one of Knowledge and one of Eternal life, in Bible, Serpent tells Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge and YHWH says they become like him. In Quran it is different, Adam and zavc are given knowledge or dima, to know right from wrong, by God with their creation, Shaytan tells them to unite their family tree with his so their lineage will achieve immortality. So same but important differences, I wonder if Ygg and Nagga aren't real trees or dragons but two different group of people arriving Iron Isles?
I suppose that Ygg and Nagga could be representative of several things. I tend to buy the tree idea more than the dragon concept, or even a monster of any sort, whether it's from the sea or not. I have also wondered if they are the same thing, only with different names. But if they are people, then you are thinking they are represented by tribes?
If weirwoods and shade of the evening are representative of two great tree's, then I would think they almost represent opposites or something in duality, similar to yin and yang. Weirwood remind a person of death or bodies, what with blood like leaves and bark like bones, while the shade tree's might represent an opposite of some sort. I know there are theories that tie the shade tree's to ironwood or ebony, and I guess that is possible, but we hear of ironwood tree's in Westeros and no one comments on blue leaves, so I think it must be something besides that. Ebony tree's might be possible though. Ebony and weirwood are talked about several times in combination of door's (at least 3 sets that I can think of) plus Dany's bench/throne in Meereen is made of ebony. The Mountain's skull is sent to Dorne in a box of ebony, which I find quite interesting. Does it work to bind or contain something? I think Ironwood is also considered a possibility for this because it's tied to the doorway to the Stark crypts, so might serve as a binding agent, and I would think it is the ironwood that is black, except we never hear of it being associated with blue-leaves. Maybe in Westeros the ironwood tree's don't get blue leaves, that is only something that happens in the soils of Essos? Just tossing idea's around.
The Ptolemy's certainly could be viewed as mad, and they might have been that way before they started to emulate past Egyptian practice and committing incest and regicide, but as to be truly descended from the gods, their connection came from Macedonia, and were considered royals, so it's possible that tie to being descended from the gods might have always been part of their concept. The first Ptolemy was one of the seven special body guards of Alexander the Great. There is some thought that he might have been a half-sibling of Alexander's by his father, Phillip of Macedonia. If that is the case, then Alexander and Ptolmy, as son's of Phillip, would be from the Argead dynasty of Macedonia. The House of Argos has a sun as their sigil, called the Vergina Sun, sometimes called a star instead of a sun, a solar symbol with rays emanating from it. The sun with rays actually reminds me of the Martell's, although I don't know if that is what GRRM intends it to be a call back too. Also, house Dayne is connected to a star, which could also be a starburst or sun. The sun god Helios was considered the patron god of the Argead dynasty of Macedonia and the flared sun symbol shows up often in imagery tied to Greek mythos.
This idea of seven body guards (called the somatophylakes) for King's Phillip and Alexander is something I was unaware of and it certainly hints back to the Kingsguard.
If Ygg and Nagga were dragons and wood, then they could be ships made from Weirwood and Shade of the Evening Tree, in Quran we have two families aved from the Flood, though there could be more families, one is family of Nuh and the other is family of Osair, also known as Israel, in Arabic the name means people who journey at night, el means people in Arabic not God, Nuh's family is the prophetic lineage while Osair's family is not and Quran says they add staff to the Deen to be seen as more sincere in their belief. Anyways we could have two or more different tribes arriving to west coast with opposite beliefs, and King's Guard connection with Alexander's guards are great, is it possible one King's Guard to build their own dynasty or is it a clue Jaime will become Lord of Casterly Rock?
If Ygg and Nagga were dragons and wood, then they could be ships made from Weirwood and Shade of the Evening Tree,
Yes, I like this theory that a longship was made from a weirwood tree. We are told this of Ygg, the demon tree, was then made into a long ship. Of Nagga, we are told that was a sea dragon who's bones were turned into a hall where the Grey King held court. It's possible they both came from different tree's. I do wonder if it's also possible that Ygg was a demon tree that became a ship, a dragon ship, and the ships name was Nagga. After it was a ship, the frame was turned upside down and became the hall of the Grey King. Ygg was said to be a demon tree, and it's also said that demon's are supposed to haunt the Valyrian peninsula, so does that mean that the bones of such tree's remain in Valyria? If so, are these tree's in Essos the black tree's, though, are they white tree's? Dragonglass and demonic black blood are said to have rained down after the doom of Valyria, so I wonder if that could be black (or possibly) blue tree sap? It's a stretch, I know.
in Quran we have two families aved from the Flood, though there could be more families, one is family of Nuh and the other is family of Osair, also known as Israel, in Arabic the name means people who journey at night, el means people in Arabic not God, Nuh's family is the prophetic lineage while Osair's family is not and Quran says they add staff to the Deen to be seen as more sincere in their belief. Anyways we could have two or more different tribes arriving to west coast with opposite beliefs,
The information about the people who journey at night is quite interesting. It reminds me of the Other's, who seem to only be seen during the night time, or the time known as "the long night". I could definitely buy the idea of different tribes arriving within the relative same time period.
King's Guard connection with Alexander's guards are great, is it possible one King's Guard to build their own dynasty or is it a clue Jaime will become Lord of Casterly Rock?
I am not sure about Jaime. I'm looking more into these men who were part of the somatophylakes, and see if any of the rest of them became kings after their time serving Philip and Alexander. I am not sure how deep GRRM would take that, or if the seven chosen guards is enough of an homage to Alexander. One of these guards, called Lysimachus eventually married the daughter of Ptolmy, another somatophylakes of Alexander's, and he was considered King of Thrace, so after Alexander's death, it seems like more then one of his guards became quite powerful. It sounds like Alexander's empire was carved up by his powerful guards and friends, as well as some of his enemies, after his death. Some of these men were considered kings eventually, while some were considered governors. Several of these men eventually warred with each other over rule and territory.
What this could mean in regards to Jaime, I have no idea. If the kingsguard is dismantled, Jaime might be considered heir to Casterly Rock again, and I would think that the people of the Westerlands would follow him. Would they follow his children by Cersei, however? Sometimes I think Jaime is destined for the wall, and a black cloak instead of a white cloak, but the Night's Watch might not survive to the end of the book either.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
If Ygg and Nagga were dragons and wood, then they could be ships made from Weirwood and Shade of the Evening Tree,
Yes, I like this theory that a longship was made from a weirwood tree. We are told this of Ygg, the demon tree, was then made into a long ship. Of Nagga, we are told that was a sea dragon who's bones were turned into a hall where the Grey King held court. It's possible they both came from different tree's. I do wonder if it's also possible that Ygg was a demon tree that became a ship, a dragon ship, and the ships name was Nagga. After it was a ship, the frame was turned upside down and became the hall of the Grey King. Ygg was said to be a demon tree, and it's also said that demon's are supposed to haunt the Valyrian peninsula, so does that mean that the bones of such tree's remain in Valyria? If so, are these tree's in Essos the black tree's, though, are they white tree's? Dragonglass and demonic black blood are said to have rained down after the doom of Valyria, so I wonder if that could be black (or possibly) blue tree sap? It's a stretch, I know.
in Quran we have two families aved from the Flood, though there could be more families, one is family of Nuh and the other is family of Osair, also known as Israel, in Arabic the name means people who journey at night, el means people in Arabic not God, Nuh's family is the prophetic lineage while Osair's family is not and Quran says they add staff to the Deen to be seen as more sincere in their belief. Anyways we could have two or more different tribes arriving to west coast with opposite beliefs,
The information about the people who journey at night is quite interesting. It reminds me of the Other's, who seem to only be seen during the night time, or the time known as "the long night". I could definitely buy the idea of different tribes arriving within the relative same time period.
King's Guard connection with Alexander's guards are great, is it possible one King's Guard to build their own dynasty or is it a clue Jaime will become Lord of Casterly Rock?
I am not sure about Jaime. I'm looking more into these men who were part of the somatophylakes, and see if any of the rest of them became kings after their time serving Philip and Alexander. I am not sure how deep GRRM would take that, or if the seven chosen guards is enough of an homage to Alexander. One of these guards, called Lysimachus eventually married the daughter of Ptolmy, another somatophylakes of Alexander's, and he was considered King of Thrace, so after Alexander's death, it seems like more then one of his guards became quite powerful. It sounds like Alexander's empire was carved up by his powerful guards and friends, as well as some of his enemies, after his death. Some of these men were considered kings eventually, while some were considered governors. Several of these men eventually warred with each other over rule and territory.
What this could mean in regards to Jaime, I have no idea. If the kingsguard is dismantled, Jaime might be considered heir to Casterly Rock again, and I would think that the people of the Westerlands would follow him. Would they follow his children by Cersei, however? Sometimes I think Jaime is destined for the wall, and a black cloak instead of a white cloak, but the Night's Watch might not survive to the end of the book either.
Andals and wights have black blood as well, is it possible downfall of Valyria caused Andals to gain power? Would Jaime himself want his children with Cersei to rule after him? He doesn't seem to love them, but would he love another woman and have children with her? Could he be succeeded by a cousin, what is the Lannister succession after Tywin BTW, is there a crisis we have to prepare?
Andals and wights have black blood as well, is it possible downfall of Valyria caused Andals to gain power? Would Jaime himself want his children with Cersei to rule after him? He doesn't seem to love them, but would he love another woman and have children with her? Could he be succeeded by a cousin, what is the Lannister succession after Tywin BTW, is there a crisis we have to prepare?
I don't know that I think of the Andal's as having black blood. That is something I associate with the wights, for certain, and Lady Stoneheart, also Craster is said to have "black blood" and so do the Hoare's who built Harrenhal. And Drogon, I think. And most bastards are considered "black blooded" I think. As to when the Andal's made their migration to Westeros, it had to be long before the fall of Valyria, because that only happened about 400 years ago, and the Andal invasion happened between 2000 and 6000 years ago, depending on which timeline people use.
Jaime certainly supports Tommen's kingship, so I would think he would support him as his son. At one point, Jaime wanted to marry Cersei, claim all three children as his own, and even marry Joffrey and Myrcella to each other, so he is not opposed to claiming his own children, even knowing it is scandalous. And I think he actually likes Tommen, but even he states that Cersei's keeping him from claiming his children altered how he was allowed to "love" or care for them. As to inheritance, there are plenty of Lannister's, so I suppose any of them could inherit if Jaime could not. Kevan falls in line after Tywin, and he still has two living son's, Lancel and Martyn. Then he has a daughter, also, if it came to females inheriting. Genna Lannister Frey also has son's and grandson's who could inherit, and she would no doubt encourage them to fight for Casterly Rock. If an heir didn't come from Tytos's line, it could come from his brother Jason's line. Still, I will find it hilarious if some somehow Sansa Stark, as Tyrion's wife, is able to inherit Casterly Rock. That would be rough justice!
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
Andals and wights have black blood as well, is it possible downfall of Valyria caused Andals to gain power? Would Jaime himself want his children with Cersei to rule after him? He doesn't seem to love them, but would he love another woman and have children with her? Could he be succeeded by a cousin, what is the Lannister succession after Tywin BTW, is there a crisis we have to prepare?
I don't know that I think of the Andal's as having black blood. That is something I associate with the wights, for certain, and Lady Stoneheart, also Craster is said to have "black blood" and so do the Hoare's who built Harrenhal. And Drogon, I think. And most bastards are considered "black blooded" I think. As to when the Andal's made their migration to Westeros, it had to be long before the fall of Valyria, because that only happened about 400 years ago, and the Andal invasion happened between 2000 and 6000 years ago, depending on which timeline people use.
Jaime certainly supports Tommen's kingship, so I would think he would support him as his son. At one point, Jaime wanted to marry Cersei, claim all three children as his own, and even marry Joffrey and Myrcella to each other, so he is not opposed to claiming his own children, even knowing it is scandalous. And I think he actually likes Tommen, but even he states that Cersei's keeping him from claiming his children altered how he was allowed to "love" or care for them. As to inheritance, there are plenty of Lannister's, so I suppose any of them could inherit if Jaime could not. Kevan falls in line after Tywin, and he still has two living son's, Lancel and Martyn. Then he has a daughter, also, if it came to females inheriting. Genna Lannister Frey also has son's and grandson's who could inherit, and she would no doubt encourage them to fight for Casterly Rock. If an heir didn't come from Tytos's line, it could come from his brother Jason's line. Still, I will find it hilarious if some somehow Sansa Stark, as Tyrion's wife, is able to inherit Casterly Rock. That would be rough justice!
Sansa as Lady of Casterly Rock would be great, hmm I remember Jaime wanting to marry Cersei and claim his children but marrying Joffrey to Myrcella is extreme, I always thought Kevan made himself look less powerful and live under Tywin's shadow as a false sense of loyalty but I could be wrong, I think one of Kevan's sons were murdered by Lord Karstark and Lancel is devoted to seven, Tyrek Lannister as a puppet figure maybe?