Ok, again, disorganized, but: Howland was there to remove Lyanna's dead hands from Ned, right? Maybe not worded like that, but if we assume that Lyanna died giving birth, it's pretty intimate to have Howland in the vicinity, don't ya think?
And then the mysterious disappearance. Why is Howland conspicuously missing from WF when Robb calls his banners. And he gets a pass for some reason. Supposedly they're close friends, but there seems to be a rift. Lyanna and the crannogman could've fell in love at Harrenhal, and I think HR was TKotLT anyway.
BTW, this is going to be FFR's essay. Unfortunately, I PM-d him some questions, but he said they'd have to wait until the project:
- How/when did HR conceive Jon if he was out during the rebellion fighting the war? - Why isn't HR raising his own bastard instead of Ned?
Emotionally, I want this one to be correct, but I think Arthur Dayne is more likely.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Ok, again, disorganized, but: Howland was there to remove Lyanna's dead hands from Ned, right? Maybe not worded like that, but if we assume that Lyanna died giving birth, it's pretty intimate to have Howland in the vicinity, don't ya think?
And then the mysterious disappearance. Why is Howland conspicuously missing from WF when Robb calls his banners. And he gets a pass for some reason. Supposedly they're close friends, but there seems to be a rift. Lyanna and the crannogman could've fell in love at Harrenhal, and I think HR was TKotLT anyway.
BTW, this is going to be FFR's essay. Unfortunately, I PM-d him some questions, but he said they'd have to wait until the project:
- How/when did HR conceive Jon if he was out during the rebellion fighting the war? - Why isn't HR raising his own bastard instead of Ned?
Emotionally, I want this one to be correct, but I think Arthur Dayne is more likely.
Hmm Unless Meera is the child of Howland and Lyanna? That would be interesting to me. We don't know Howland's whereabouts during the conflict besides at the Tourney and then with Ned fighting the 3 King's Guard. Are those the only two places we know Howland was between the Tourny at HH and then with Ned fighting the 3 KG?
Ok, again, disorganized, but: Howland was there to remove Lyanna's dead hands from Ned, right? Maybe not worded like that, but if we assume that Lyanna died giving birth, it's pretty intimate to have Howland in the vicinity, don't ya think?
And then the mysterious disappearance. Why is Howland conspicuously missing from WF when Robb calls his banners. And he gets a pass for some reason. Supposedly they're close friends, but there seems to be a rift. Lyanna and the crannogman could've fell in love at Harrenhal, and I think HR was TKotLT anyway.
BTW, this is going to be FFR's essay. Unfortunately, I PM-d him some questions, but he said they'd have to wait until the project:
- How/when did HR conceive Jon if he was out during the rebellion fighting the war? - Why isn't HR raising his own bastard instead of Ned?
Emotionally, I want this one to be correct, but I think Arthur Dayne is more likely.
Maybe she wanted her son to be a "son of Winterfell" Real crackpot Jon and Meera are twins!
Maybe she wanted her son to be a "son of Winterfell" Real crackpot Jon and Meera are twins!
I think that's a whole lot more likely than Jon and Danny, though there's nothing in the text to suggest it other than Meera's age being about right.
I find it hard to see why, if Howland was Jon's dad, Ned would have lied to Cat and the entire world about it. What purpose would that serve other than to make everyone unhappy? Why would Howland agree to give up his son? On the other hand, if R+L=J+M then splitting the twins between the two people who are in the know for safety would make a lot of sense. See Luke & Leia.
That's my objection, too, along with the fact that Howland is fighting the war with Ned, and he's not with Lyanna
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Well i would wait to see how and if FFR answers that in his essay
I've tried to goad it out of him twice. Why hasn't he registered yet? :::
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Maybe she wanted her son to be a "son of Winterfell" Real crackpot Jon and Meera are twins!
I think that's a whole lot more likely than Jon and Danny, though there's nothing in the text to suggest it other than Meera's age being about right.
I find it hard to see why, if Howland was Jon's dad, Ned would have lied to Cat and the entire world about it. What purpose would that serve other than to make everyone unhappy? Why would Howland agree to give up his son? On the other hand, if R+L=J+M then splitting the twins between the two people who are in the know for safety would make a lot of sense. See Luke & Leia.
Yes--seems like if Jon were Howland and Lyanna's son that would have been an impetus for bonding with the families--not a secret. Granted, Lyanna's asking for the promise gives a bit of leeway on the reasonableness of the "secret," but this seems like a stretch.
And am liking the Luke and Leia idea re: Meera and Jon. She defends her odd little brother. Jon defends the weak as well--not anywhere near actual proof--but the idea would be interesting in its implications.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
- Why isn't HR raising his own bastard instead of Ned?
I've always been attracted to the theory that he was; Meera is Jon's twin sister....
::flag wave::
But why not both? Why separate them? I like this theory, too, I just have problems with the logistics.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Post by regular jon umber on Jul 31, 2015 12:39:14 GMT
Yes, the logistics don't quite add up, that's the biggest issue I have with this theory. There's also the problem of Lyanna's impregnation; All timelines I have found don't seem to allow for Lyanna to be pregnant (even just a few days pregnant) and still be found immediately post-birth by Ned.
Yes, the logistics don't quite add up, that's the biggest issue I have with this theory. There's also the problem of Lyanna's impregnation; All timelines I have found don't seem to allow for Lyanna to be pregnant (even just a few days pregnant) and still be found immediately post-birth by Ned.
Right, Howland is supposed to be fighting the war with Ned, and Jon and Ned are supposed to be of similar age. However, wolfmaid7 has brought up some interesting evidence that Jon is actually older than he's presented to be. I think some of it is centered around the quote about bastards growing up faster.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones