In what book does Dany start getting boring? I hit my first plateau in Storm with Dany I. I guess it's not too bad yet, she gets her unsullied at Slavers Bay soon.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
In what book does Dany start getting boring? I hit my first plateau in Storm with Dany I. I guess it's not too bad yet, she gets her unsullied at Slavers Bay soon.
I liked her storyline in AGOT, In ACOK it seemed to me like she did not do much besides the HOTU. ASOS and ADWD I didn't mind her arc. Originally I wasn't the most fond of Dany's ADWD story line and I thought it was boring. I then stumbled upon analysis and essays on meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/essays/.
In a recent Q+A, he said that Adam Feldman "got it"
Edit: got this from westeros' twitter
(Comment on reddit to the OP by Ran) https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3b75fu/spoilers_all_grrm_on_the_meereenese_knot/csjg95r Elio_Garcia 247 points 1 month ago
No, but he referred very specifically to the Meereenese Blot website and the knot essays. He said he was told about them, read them, and was very pleased that someone was able to get his difficulties and his intentions perfectly.
Is there a tl;dr version? I need to read our essays first!
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I don't think there is a shortened version but this kind of represents the essays a little bit. Here’s why all these interpretations miss the point:
“The human heart in conflict with itself is the only thing worth writing about.” –George R. R. Martin
Martin has paraphrased this quote from William Faulkner time and time again in interviews, yet many readers haven’t fully internalized it. It means Martin is not interested in merely showing characters “leveling up,” like a video game, progressing from incompetent naif to awesome badass. His main interest is in exploring his characters’ values. And throughout the series, he creates drama by forcing characters to choose between their core values — love vs. duty, honor vs. pragmatism, vows vs. innocent life.
With that in mind, a closer look reveals that Dany’s plotline in Meereen has been very cleverly designed as a series of tests of her values, and one value in particular. Each test is designed to ask — how far will Dany go to make peace and protect innocent life? With nearly every new chapter, Dany is asked to give up something else she wants or desires, for the good of the Meereenese people. The use of her dragons. A share of power in Meereen. Some of her anti-slavery reforms. Her desire for vengeance. Her desire to right every wrong she sees. Her distaste for cultural practices she finds abhorrent. Her sexual autonomy. Her happiness. Her pride. Her chance at Westeros.
Dany’s arc is revealed in how she responds to these tests, and how she tries to balance her moral ideals against her own darker impulses and desires. Part of Dany genuinely does want peace, and wants to sacrifice a great deal to protect innocent life. But another part of her would rather she take what she wants, through fire and blood.
The main drama of the Meereen plotline lies in Dany’s mind and in her choices. On the surface she is struggling with the Meereenese — but her most crucial struggle is with herself. And the outcome of this struggle will have momentous consequences for Westeros.
Also one of the essays is basically about how the peace is real and Barristan later destroyed that peace. One of the essays points to the Shavepate that tried to poison her. Another is about how Hizdar represents peace and compromising and making hard choices in comparison to Darrio and the way of war and the seduction that it is easy and better to kill and slaughter etc.
The darker Dany essay is summerised with this section....
Overall the purpose of the Meereen arc was to transform Dany into a much darker character.
With that in mind, so many of the most-criticized aspects of this plotline make a great deal more sense. Our characters are supposed to be confused and frustrated about Meereenese politics. They are supposed to hate the city and conclude that staying there is a waste of time. They are supposed to feel this generic distrust for everyone, and to fail to grasp that their peaces were actually quite successful. Dany is supposed to conclude — wrongly — that her behavior through most of the book was silly and foolish. And if you came away with those impressions too, it’s perfectly understandable.
But when you look past the unreliable narrator and POV-character bias, Martin’s aim becomes clear. The whole plotline is designed to maneuver Dany into a mental place where she’ll decide to sideline her concerns for innocent life, and take what she wants with fire and blood. Martin’s triumph is in handling this character development in such a natural and organic way. He gives Dany as much agency as he can — her hand is never truly forced by the Harpy or slavers. He presents her with incredibly difficult situations, places her core values into conflict, and makes her choose. Her choices first go one way — then another.
Now, the transformation is complete. The Dany we knew at the end of ASOS is gone. The one who reaches Westeros will be a very different person. The dragons are now unchained, and the gloves are off.
And amidst the bloody, burning carcass, for her final thoughts in the book, Dany returns to the contrast between Daario and Hizdahr. Though Daario is not “the stuff of kings,” here is her ultimate rejection of the role of “a queen in silk,” and her choice of Daario:
In Meereen I was a queen in silk, nibbling on stuffed dates and honeyed lamb, she remembered. What would my noble husband think if he could see me now? Hizdahr would be horrified, no doubt. But Daario …
Daario would laugh, carve off a hunk of horsemeat with his arakh, and squat down to eat beside her.
As the western sky turned the color of a blood bruise, she heard the sound of approaching horses. Dany rose, wiped her hands on her ragged undertunic, and went to stand beside her dragon.
That was how Khal Jhaqo found her, when half a hundred mounted warriors emerged from the drifting smoke. (DANY X)
Dany now has decided who and what she is. Her internal struggle has been resolved.
Basically Dany is going to not care if a lot of people die in her conquest.
Thanks. I honestly wouldn't care if she died at this point. That's how little I care about her character. So she'll probably get the IT now.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Thanks. I honestly wouldn't care if she died at this point. That's how little I care about her character. So she'll probably get the IT now.
Oh you are welcome. Yeah I am not the biggest fan of her character either. There are essays on Jon Snow, Tryion, and the Martells as well. All of them are well done essays if you are ever get really bored.
In what book does Dany start getting boring? I hit my first plateau in Storm with Dany I. I guess it's not too bad yet, she gets her unsullied at Slavers Bay soon.
Funny thing is, in the beginning I never had a problem with any of her chapters. Now I feel like it's a chore to read ANY of them, from her first chapter in GOT to the last in ADWD. I do agree with POG. The Merenese Blot was very enlightening. I haven't reread since I've read that, though and now have forgotten half of it.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Funny thing is, in the beginning I never had a problem with any of her chapters. Now I feel like it's a chore to read ANY of them, from her first chapter in GOT to the last in ADWD. I do agree with POG. The Merenese Blot was very enlightening. I haven't reread since I've read that, though and now have forgotten half of it.
I have had some back and forth communication with Snowfyre about this, and I needed him to help me feel motivated to read through her drivel. He reminded me that her chapters in AGOT were fine, and I think he gave me a motivational speech about Clash. Pretty lame to admin a site dedicated to a series I need coaching on to keep up with my rereads..
::: :::
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Thanks. I honestly wouldn't care if she died at this point. That's how little I care about her character. So she'll probably get the IT now.
Oh you are welcome. Yeah I am not the biggest fan of her character either. There are essays on Jon Snow, Tryion, and the Martells as well. All of them are well done essays if you are ever get really bored.
I finally got through Dany I after 2 days, and have a headache so bad, I needed one of those hardcore ibuprofen 800s
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Oh you are welcome. Yeah I am not the biggest fan of her character either. There are essays on Jon Snow, Tryion, and the Martells as well. All of them are well done essays if you are ever get really bored.
I finally got through Dany I after 2 days, and have a headache so bad, I needed one of those hardcore ibuprofen 800s
Hey at least you didn't have to resort to stronger drugs
Essentially, her story is fascinating, because you have this young, young girl, who has, since an even younger age, had it hammered into her head that she has some destiny in a land far away, intertwined with the most overt magic of the whole series: dragons.
All through aSoS to the end of aDwD, we get to see her on a journey from a somewhat arrogant teenager who wants revenge more than anything (and to claim what is 'hers'), to an earnest young lady who wants to do the right thing, yet is always hounded by this thing in the back of her mind: she is a dragon, not a ruler.
And by the end of aDwD, we see her reject everything and embraces the dragon.
It's a fascinating journey of how one becomes ... wait for it ... an antagonist.
I posted about Dany's descent into madness at SH, and Snowfyre concurred, with the same idea. Like an inverse parallel of Jaime becoming a sympathetic character.
I mentioned that since AGOT, Dany has demonstrated she is a sociopath. I found some foreshadowing in the Jaime I chapter, too, in Storm. Unfortunately. I've had a raging headache since I believe 8 or 9 pm last night, so almost a whole day it was getting better, then I ruined things by getting on the computer. I'll make a mental note to come back and list her bad behaviors and Jaime's predictive thoughts about her, as well as Viserys.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I posted about Dany's descent into madness at SH, and Snowfyre concurred, with the same idea. Like an inverse parallel of Jaime becoming a sympathetic character.
I mentioned that since AGOT, Dany has demonstrated she is a sociopath. I found some foreshadowing in the Jaime I chapter, too, in Storm. Unfortunately. I've had a raging headache since I believe 8 or 9 pm last night, so almost a whole day it was getting better, then I ruined things by getting on the computer. I'll make a mental note to come back and list her bad behaviors and Jaime's predictive thoughts about her, as well as Viserys.
Daenerys at some point in AGOT crossed this line for me where I remember being repelled by her character. It was definitely present in the chapter after Viserys dies and all she does is move right along with her life and that's it. Next she's planning on how to invade Westeros like she thinks she's a skilled manipulator.
I mean, yeah, I know he treated her horribly, but the lack of grief at his death and remorse that it had come to that, or any kind of pathos was missing and while I didn't want a whole chapter of her belaboring it like Sansa did, I would have appreciated that she had had some kind of feeling after Viserys' death. I mean yeah he was abusive towards her, no doubt, but he was still her brother. Heck I could have been satisfied with a "I felt... happy at his death and then hated myself for even feeling that." kind of acknowledgement.
But nope... Dany just goes on, seemingly unaffected.
Sansa has an entire chapter where she suffers the pathos of her actions leading to her father's death, which is why Sansa (my least favorite Stark) is higher than Dany is on my list of POV characters I like to read. Dany may see interesting things and go and experience different peoples and places, but her mission to recapture the Iron Throne becomes less and less "I'm rooting for her" the further we get into her story arc. While Sansa may be naive, at least she does have the capability of empathy which suffering has brought out in her more-so than being pampered ever did.
:: :
it was getting better, then I ruined things by getting on the computer. I'll make a mental note to come back and list her bad behaviors and Jaime's predictive thoughts about her, as well as Viserys.
