Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 20, 2015 1:56:44 GMT
This thread was made to answer any Family Tree or Family Relationship question people might have about ASOIAF. Who's related to whom and in what degree also falls in this category. Early posts are moved here from a different thread per a poster's request.
Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 20, 2015 2:00:53 GMT
I love Family trees (both in real life and ASOIAF) so if you ever have a family tree question to ask, Voice, tag me in the post.
The Vale family relationship to House Stark:
Lord Willam Stark m. Lyanne Glover (died in childbirth) -Brandon Stark (died as an infant)
m. Melantha Blackwood (either a sister or an aunt of Queen Betha Blackwood)
-Edwyle Stark -m. Marna Locke --Rickard Stark --m. Lyarra Stark ---Brandon Stark ---Eddard Stark ---Lyanna Stark ---Benjen Stark
-Jocelyn Stark -m. Benedict Royce (younger son of Lord Raymar Royce of the Gates of the Moon Royces) --Daughter 1 --m. House Waynwood ---(most likely Lady Anya, given Lady Anya's description of "looking like a horse" and her son and grandson having long faces and brown hair) --Daughter 2 --m. House Templeton ---Most likely Ser Symond Templeton, the Knight of the Ninestars --Daughter 3 --m. House Corbray ---Most likely the three Corbray brothers: Lyonel, Lynn, and Lucas
Colors indicate generations.
So the Lords Declarant are made up of mostly Stark relatives and their allies, and it also gives an alternate explanation for why Lady Anya attended the marriage of Lord Lyonel Corbray that Petyr most likely is overlooking, assuming that his buying up the debts of House Waynwood has more sway than it might actually have. It also explains why Ser Symond would also be in attendance of Lord Lyonel's wedding. They might have something in the works for claiming Winterfell through their Stark lineage, or have deduced that Alayne is actually Sansa and be plotting accordingly through family ties to make LF think he's bought them when in reality they're simply trying to lull him into a trap and unite around Sansa.
I personally like the idea that Littlefinger is so concerned about debts and things that he forgets to look at family lineage (which is important to the lords) that he ignores one common bind that unites these houses.
I don't have much to add right now, but thanks for the family tree. I especially like your ideas re:LF. I keep hoping for someone to get the better of him. If you are able to flush out anything else about this, I think it would make a great discussion thread on its own. If I ever get back into my reread, I'll keep an eye out.
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
I will repost some neat findings I stumbled upon when doing a comparison between Ned and Cregan Stark:
Cregan Stark marries Lynara Stark (a sister? Cousin? Some close relation) and among their children are Brandon, Lyanna, and Edric. Eddard Stark is the product of a Stark cousin marriage of Rickard and Lyarra, and has a brother Brandon and sister Lyanna.
Cregan’s daughter Lyanna is the first daughter on record ever produced through a Stark-Stark marriage. Ned’s sister Lyanna is the second and last daughter on record ever produced through a Stark-Stark marriage, both parties descended in a direct unbroken line entirely through the male line of Cregan.
Post by whitewolfstark on Aug 20, 2015 20:44:56 GMT
For those who have a little trouble processing just through words, I've uploaded a picture!
Please note that I have estimated birth years included that I put in for my own amusement and estimation. Some things are canon (like Brandon & Rickard's deaths, Willam Stark's death date, Lyonel Corbray's birth date, etc.), other things are estimations and other such things (Rickard's & older generations' birth dates).
The challenge was to fill in the gaps between Lord Willam's death and Ned's generation.
For those who have a little trouble processing just through words, I've uploaded a picture!
Please note that I have estimated birth years included that I put in for my own amusement and estimation. Some things are canon (like Brandon & Rickard's deaths, Willam Stark's death date, Lyonel Corbray's birth date, etc.), other things are estimations and other such things (Rickard's & older generations' birth dates).
The challenge was to fill in the gaps between Lord Willam's death and Ned's generation.
Lines that are purple are guesses as to descent.
I like this. Too bad you can't do a Craster family tree
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Requesting a visual chart for the Royces, Arryns, and Targaryens.
It would be nice to see how Harry is the heir. I'm visual, so the charts are easier for me to see. I want to say Harry is a descendent of one of Jon Arryn's sisters, but I could be wrong.
Thanks!
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Requesting a visual chart for the Royces, Arryns, and Targaryens.
It would be nice to see how Harry is the heir. I'm visual, so the charts are easier for me to see. I want to say Harry is a descendent of one of Jon Arryn's sisters, but I could be wrong.
Thanks!
I'll get to work on it. For the Arryns, I'll go from Jasper Arryn (Jon Arryn's father) and show his descendants.
How far back for the Targaryens? Which branch of the Royces?
Requesting a visual chart for the Royces, Arryns, and Targaryens.
It would be nice to see how Harry is the heir. I'm visual, so the charts are easier for me to see. I want to say Harry is a descendent of one of Jon Arryn's sisters, but I could be wrong.
Thanks!
I'll get to work on it. For the Arryns, I'll go from Jasper Arryn (Jon Arryn's father) and show his descendants.
How far back for the Targaryens? Which branch of the Royces?
Ummm....everything?
i want to understand the different lines of Targs, markg171 mentioned something about Dany saying she was of *someone's* blood, but she actually wasn't.
i want to understand Harry the Heir
Both Royces, and see how they play, but I'm not at Feast yet, so not urgent. I haven't had time to pick up Storm of Swords since I posted some of Ch.37's forensic file. Still need to finish that. As well as a bunch of other stuff...
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Dany saying she was of *someone's* blood, but she actually wasn't.
She lifted her head. "And I am Daenerys Stormborn, Daenerys of House Targaryen, of the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel and old Valyria before them. I am the dragon's daughter, and I swear to you, these men will die screaming. Now bring me to Khal Drogo."
She said she's the blood of Maegor the Cruel when that's impossible seeing as Maegor was Aegon I's son by Visenya, and the present Targaryen family descends from Aegon I's son by Rhaenys Aenys I as Maegor died without having children so his line never continued.
Which it turns out that Dany herself knows that she does not descend from Maegor but instead descends from Aenys.
"Visenya and Rhaenys," she recalled. "I am descended from Aegon and Rhaenys through their son Aenys and their grandson Jaehaerys."
So really she was full of shit when she said she's the blood of Maegor the Cruel. Or GRRM just hadn't yet mapped out that Aegon I's line would descend through Aenys and not Maegor back when he wrote AGOT.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Mojo, Harrold Hardyng is Robert's First Cousin Once Removed. Were Robert to have any children, those children would be second cousins to Harrold.
Red = Dead
Blue = Uncertain if Alive
Black = Alive
Who is Denys Arryn? Or was Denys. Thanks for the visual aid! So Harry is the son of one of Sweet Robin's first cousins?
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
Denys was a distant cousin of Jon Arryn's. He came from a poor branch of the ruling family (not from the cadet branch in Gulltown), and was Keeper of the Gates of the Moon after Ser Ronnel's death (who died the year Elbert was born). Denys was a "renowned jouster, handsome and gallant and brimming with courtesy". After Elbert died, Denys was designated heir since he married Alys' eldest daughter. He is given no more distinction beyond that and the fact that he died at the Battle of the Bells while battling Jon Connington.
Thanks, WWS. I bet if you started a thread like this on Reddit, you'd get a bunch of upvotes. Maybe after you've done a few, you should post them. Or better yet, link it to this thread so you can get "link karma", lol. This is great, though, and quite a useful project to reference while reading.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” ― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones
I'll get to work on it. For the Arryns, I'll go from Jasper Arryn (Jon Arryn's father) and show his descendants.
How far back for the Targaryens? Which branch of the Royces?
Ummm....everything?
i want to understand the different lines of Targs, markg171 mentioned something about Dany saying she was of *someone's* blood, but she actually wasn't.
i want to understand Harry the Heir
Both Royces, and see how they play, but I'm not at Feast yet, so not urgent. I haven't had time to pick up Storm of Swords since I posted some of Ch.37's forensic file. Still need to finish that. As well as a bunch of other stuff...
Just realized I never got to the Royces or the Targaryens for you. I'll get around to that sometime this week--most likely Thursday.