I was reading through ASOIAF, as it seems many of us have a tendency to do on occasion, and again picked up on what seems to be a silly error. Wait! What? Martin doesn't make errors, does he? Well, turns out that he and his editors are human after all. There are mistakes and inconsistencies. Even as early as the Prologue of GOT. Now I need to get them out of my head so that they quit distracting me! Maybe we can use it as a lesson to learn to quit obsessing over every word, though I somehow doubt it.
Let's get the party started!
How can Will answer:
“Have you drawn any watches this past week, Will?”“Yes, m’lord .” There never was a week when he did not draw a dozen bloody watches. What was the man driving at?
When:
Nine days they had been riding, north and northwest and then north again, farther and farther from the Wall, hard on the track of a band of Wildling raiders.
And then we have:
“It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him. He must be, what, five by now?”“Prince Tommen is seven,” she told him. “The same age as Bran. Please, Ned, guard your tongue. The Lannister woman is our queen, and her pride is said to grow with every passing year.”
Yet when Robert arrives:
Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy’s rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands.
Did Ned see Tommen and Cersei without Robert there?
Martin wasn't lying. He really does suck at timelines!
Last Edit: Nov 5, 2015 23:38:18 GMT by Lady Dyanna
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
Just like Jon being a babe in arms at the beginning of summer 10 years ago?
Technically in Medieval terms this was the life stages:
0 - 6 = Babe 7 - 13 = Child
Puberty was considered the beginning of adulthood.
Demography, the study of births and deaths, shows more of its darker side. The death rate among medieval children was high by modern standards. It has been suggested that 25% of them may have died in their first year, half as many (12.5%) between one and four, and a quarter as many (6%) between five and nine. There is no evidence that these deaths lessened parental affection and care for children, however, and the interest of adults in children can be traced throughout the middle ages. Medieval people inherited ideas about human life from the classical world. They thought they knew how infants grew in the womb and developed and matured after they were born. Life was viewed as a sequence of stages—“the ages of man.” Infancy up to the age of 7 was viewed as a time of growth, childhood from 7 to 14 as one of play, and adolescence from 14 onwards as one of physical, intellectual, and sexual development.
Little survives about adult attitudes to children during the Anglo-Saxon period from 500 to 1066, although burials show that children were often buried with grave-goods, like adults, and that children with deformities were cared for and enabled to grow up. Information about adult attitudes grows in the twelfth century, an age of law-making in both the Church and in lay society. Making laws involved arrangements for children, because they could not be expected to bear the same responsibilities and penalties as adults. Medieval law-makers tended to place the boundary between childhood and adulthood at puberty, conventionally 12 for girls and 14 for boys. The Church led the way in making distinctions between childhood and adulthood. It came to regard children under the age of puberty as too immature to commit sins or to understand adult concepts and duties. On these grounds they were forbidden to marry, excused from confessing to a priest, and excluded from sharing in the sacrament of the eucharist. Secular justice developed a similar concept of an age of legal responsibility beginning at about puberty, although there are rare references to children receiving adult punishments.
While GRRM did jump up the age of accepted adulthood to 16 for boys and kept it at puberty for girls, the idea that infancy ends at 7 as far as I know hasn't been defined. So assuming the Medieval view is applicable, Infancy lasts until 7.
Technically in Medieval terms this was the life stages:
0 - 6 = Babe 7 - 13 = Child
Puberty was considered the beginning of adulthood.
Wait--does Martin say "babe in arms" or just "babe"?
Would that make a difference to the medieval groupings listed above?
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
Infant school in the UK goes to age 6ish...I think I came across this term in Harry Potter. @serduncan may know more about it ;-)
I went to British schools in Kenya when I was small. When I was 5-6, my class was called "Lower House Infants." Came from the French term "Enfant" which just means "child." But my sisters never let me hear the end of it. Was very happy when I moved up to the next level--though my next teacher terrified me. Kept threatening to cane us.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I was reading through ASOIAF, as it seems many of us have a tendency to do on occasion, and again picked up on what seems to be a silly error. Wait! What? Martin doesn't make errors, does he? Well, turns out that he and his editors are human after all. There are mistakes and inconsistencies. Even as early as the Prologue of GOT. Now I need to get them out of my head so that they quit distracting me! Maybe we can use it as a lesson to learn to quit obsessing over every word, though I somehow doubt it.
Let's get the party started!
How can Will answer:
“Have you drawn any watches this past week, Will?”“Yes, m’lord .” There never was a week when he did not draw a dozen bloody watches. What was the man driving at?
When:
Nine days they had been riding, north and northwest and then north again, farther and farther from the Wall, hard on the track of a band of Wildling raiders.
And then we have:
“It will be good to see the children. The youngest was still sucking at the Lannister woman’s teat the last time I saw him. He must be, what, five by now?”“Prince Tommen is seven,” she told him. “The same age as Bran. Please, Ned, guard your tongue. The Lannister woman is our queen, and her pride is said to grow with every passing year.”
Yet when Robert arrives:
Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy’s rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands.
Did Ned see Tommen and Cersei without Robert there?
Martin wasn't lying. He really does suck at timelines!
For the Will quote - they're on a ranging so I assume they take turns on the watch every night while they sleep.
For me it's just weird that Waymar has to even ask if Will had taken any watches when there's only 3 of them... and is the Wall even visible 9 days journey north of the Wall?
I was reading through ASOIAF, as it seems many of us have a tendency to do on occasion, and again picked up on what seems to be a silly error. Wait! What? Martin doesn't make errors, does he? Well, turns out that he and his editors are human after all. There are mistakes and inconsistencies. Even as early as the Prologue of GOT. Now I need to get them out of my head so that they quit distracting me! Maybe we can use it as a lesson to learn to quit obsessing over every word, though I somehow doubt it.
Let's get the party started!
How can Will answer: When: And then we have: Yet when Robert arrives: Did Ned see Tommen and Cersei without Robert there?
Martin wasn't lying. He really does suck at timelines!
For the Will quote - they're on a ranging so I assume they take turns on the watch every night while they sleep.
For me it's just weird that Waymar has to even ask if Will had taken any watches when there's only 3 of them... and is the Wall even visible 9 days journey north of the Wall?
Definitely weird any way you slice it.
It may very well meant on the ranging, but it was the next section that made me think not.
“And how did you find the Wall?” “Weeping,” Will said, frowning. He saw it clear enough, now that the lordling had pointed it out. “They couldn’t have froze. Not if the Wall was weeping. It wasn’t cold enough.”
Even if they could see the wall nine days out, would they be able to tell if it was weeping or not?
Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility? The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t? The I-will to their better-nots?
For the Will quote - they're on a ranging so I assume they take turns on the watch every night while they sleep.
For me it's just weird that Waymar has to even ask if Will had taken any watches when there's only 3 of them... and is the Wall even visible 9 days journey north of the Wall?
Definitely weird any way you slice it.
It may very well meant on the ranging, but it was the next section that made me think not.
“And how did you find the Wall?” “Weeping,” Will said, frowning. He saw it clear enough, now that the lordling had pointed it out. “They couldn’t have froze. Not if the Wall was weeping. It wasn’t cold enough.”
Even if they could see the wall nine days out, would they be able to tell if it was weeping or not?
Martin could just be a fallible human like the rest of us...
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
Davos could make out Fury well to the southeast, her sails shimmering golden as they came down, the crowned stag of Baratheon blazoned on the canvas. From her decks Stannis Baratheon had commanded the assault on Dragonstone sixteen years before, but this time he had chosen to ride with his army, trusting Fury and the command of his fleet to his wife's brother Ser Imry, who'd come over to his cause at Storm's End with Lord Alester and all the other Florents.
It's currently 299 when Davos thinks that Stannis assaulted Dragonstone 16 years before, meaning that Stannis attacked Dragonstone during 283. Now of course, that should be next to impossible. Way too many things happen in 283, especially the later half of 283, for Stannis to assault Dragonstone in 283. His attack should occur in 284.
And it should especially occur in 284 given that that's the year Dany is born in. Dany is supposedly born almost right before Stannis attacks Dragonstone, only narrowly escaping with Viserys and Darry before he gets there. Yet if Dany is born in 284, and Stannis attacked Dragonstone in 283, then how could Dany possibly have ever been part of the group that fled Dragonstone before his assault???
Yes, we're all aware that Martin makes a lot of timeline mistakes. And as mentioned above, it should be almost impossible for Stannis to assault Dragonstone in 283 given that stuff like the Sack and the Siege all occur near the fall/end of the year. But Dany's birth is tied incredibly to Stannis' assault on Dragonstone, so I find it extremely odd that he could write that Stannis attacked Dragonstone in 283 given that Dany is born in 284. Which would mean that Stannis attacked Dragonstone while Dany couldn't possibly have been born yet.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
For the Will quote - they're on a ranging so I assume they take turns on the watch every night while they sleep.
For me it's just weird that Waymar has to even ask if Will had taken any watches when there's only 3 of them... and is the Wall even visible 9 days journey north of the Wall?
Gotta be that Waymar is referring to watches upon the Wall, if he's asking about the texture of the ice. I assume a weeping Wall is visible in close proximity, but ice is ice. It looks shiny even if it isn't melting at times.
BTW kienn, after last season of GoT, I'm in serious need of some hope for Grey Wind.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."