Post by pieceofgosa on Dec 1, 2015 5:42:35 GMT
So much and more has been made about Aemon's admission that the Targs spoke crap valyrian and couldn't translate a simple prophecy without cocking up the meaning. So what's it all about ? Why would a word get mistranslated in such misleading way ? I will make an attempt to answer that.
Many have suggested that the word is not "prince" but "dragon" thus giving us a prophecy about a "dragon that was promised". That's all well and good, it certainly ties up nicely. Unfortunately it cannot be true because the word "dragon" exists in the common tongue. If the phrase was "dragon that was promised" then it would be translated as such. No, the word mistranslated from valyrian must be a valyrian word which doesn't have a direct analogue in the common tongue.
So why's Aemon waffling on about the transient nature of dragon gender? I think the answer comes from Aemon himself, "the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler" (although not a direct quote, Sam reports it as such). What am i talking about? Here's a description of the sphinxes in the Citadel from Feast:
"The gates of the Citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles, and the tails of serpents. One had a man’s face, one a woman’s."
So these are what we would recognise as a classic sphinx, note however that they do stand as male/female pair.
Now look at the description of a Valyrian sphinx from Dance:
"The next evening they came upon a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It had a dragon’s body and a woman’s face. “A dragon queen,” said Tyrion. “A pleasant omen.” “Her king is missing.” Illyrio pointed out the smooth stone plinth on which the second sphinx once stood, now grown over with moss and flowering vines. “The horselords built wooden wheels beneath him and dragged him back to Vaes Dothrak."
So the obvious difference between sphinxes is that the valyrian style is simply half-human/half-dragon, notably Tyrion calls the statue a "dragon queen" and this gives a big clue to the translation snafu. We know that valyrians did not style themselves kings but it would seem outside of valyria the term "dragon king" or dragon queen" may have been used to describe them. To give a contemporary example, the dothraki do not style themselves "lords" yet in the above quote Illyrio calls them what in the common? "Horselords". If the westerosi (specifically I would guess, from the andal migration onward) called valyrians "dragon kings" then what is the logical name for their children? "Dragon prince/princess". My belief is that the term in valyrian bears closes relation to the french word "dauphin" or "crown prince" in the common. In other words, the title bestowed upon the heir of a house and because the valyrians clearly saw themselves as part dragon, or at least projected that image (look at the iconography of the sphinxes) then, of course their styles and titles had no specific gender. I reckon that's as good an explanation as any as to how the word could be confused.
Many have suggested that the word is not "prince" but "dragon" thus giving us a prophecy about a "dragon that was promised". That's all well and good, it certainly ties up nicely. Unfortunately it cannot be true because the word "dragon" exists in the common tongue. If the phrase was "dragon that was promised" then it would be translated as such. No, the word mistranslated from valyrian must be a valyrian word which doesn't have a direct analogue in the common tongue.
So why's Aemon waffling on about the transient nature of dragon gender? I think the answer comes from Aemon himself, "the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler" (although not a direct quote, Sam reports it as such). What am i talking about? Here's a description of the sphinxes in the Citadel from Feast:
"The gates of the Citadel were flanked by a pair of towering green sphinxes with the bodies of lions, the wings of eagles, and the tails of serpents. One had a man’s face, one a woman’s."
So these are what we would recognise as a classic sphinx, note however that they do stand as male/female pair.
Now look at the description of a Valyrian sphinx from Dance:
"The next evening they came upon a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It had a dragon’s body and a woman’s face. “A dragon queen,” said Tyrion. “A pleasant omen.” “Her king is missing.” Illyrio pointed out the smooth stone plinth on which the second sphinx once stood, now grown over with moss and flowering vines. “The horselords built wooden wheels beneath him and dragged him back to Vaes Dothrak."
So the obvious difference between sphinxes is that the valyrian style is simply half-human/half-dragon, notably Tyrion calls the statue a "dragon queen" and this gives a big clue to the translation snafu. We know that valyrians did not style themselves kings but it would seem outside of valyria the term "dragon king" or dragon queen" may have been used to describe them. To give a contemporary example, the dothraki do not style themselves "lords" yet in the above quote Illyrio calls them what in the common? "Horselords". If the westerosi (specifically I would guess, from the andal migration onward) called valyrians "dragon kings" then what is the logical name for their children? "Dragon prince/princess". My belief is that the term in valyrian bears closes relation to the french word "dauphin" or "crown prince" in the common. In other words, the title bestowed upon the heir of a house and because the valyrians clearly saw themselves as part dragon, or at least projected that image (look at the iconography of the sphinxes) then, of course their styles and titles had no specific gender. I reckon that's as good an explanation as any as to how the word could be confused.
Thoughts? 
