Bastard Tracker

whitewolfstark
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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 4:34:24 GMT Mojo, SlyWren, and 6 more like this

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Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 4:34:24 GMT

Per Melissandra's request, a thread for keeping track of Bastards, their parents, and their names, in an attempt to try and figure out a pattern on GRRM's behalf.

Full Bastard Name	Father	Mother	Grew Up
Jon Snow	Lord Ned Stark (supposed)	Unknown (supposed)	Winterfell, The North
Addam of Hull (later Velaryon)	Laenor Velaryon (supposed)	Marilda	Hull, Driftmark
Alyn of Hull (later Velaryon)	Laenor Velaryon (supposed)	Marilda	Hull, Driftmark
Tyrion Tanner	Gang Rape	Lady Lollys Stokeworth	Stokeworth, Crownlands
Aurane Waters	Unknown Velaryon	Unknown	Driftmark
Daemon Waters (later Blackfyre)	Aegon IV Targaryen	Daena Targaryen	Crownlands
Humfrey Waters	Unknown	Unknown	Crownlands
Ser Marston Waters	Unknown	Unknown	Crownlands
Gendry	King Robert Baratheon	Unknown	King's Landing, Crownlands
Ellaria Sand	Lord Harmen Uller	Lyseni Woman	Dorne
Obara Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Oldtown Whore	Oldtown/Dorne
Nymeria Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Volantene Noble	Volantis/Dorne
Tyene Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	A Septa	Reach/Dorne
Sarella Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Summer Islands Ship Captain	Summer Islands/Dorne
Elia Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Ellaria Sand	Dorne
Obella Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Ellaria Sand	Dorne
Dorea Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Ellaria Sand	Dorne
Loreza Sand	Prince Oberyn Martell	Ellaria Sand	Dorne
Bara	King Robert Baratheon	Whore at Alayaya's	King's Landing, Crownlands
Ser Daemon Sand	Ryon Allryion	Unknown	Godsgrace, Dorne
Cotter Pyke	Unknown	Unknown	Iron Islands
Wex Pyke	Sargon Botley	Unknown	Lordsport, Pyke, Iron Islands
Ramsay Snow (later Bolton)	Lord Roose Bolton	Miller's Wife	Bolton Lands, The North
Larence Snow	Lord Halys Hornwood	Unknown	Deepwood Motte, Glover Lands, The North
Falia Flowers	Lord Humphrey Hewett	Unknown	Oakenshield Castle, The Reach
Ser Franklyn Flowers	Unknown Fossoway of Cider Hall	Washerwoman	Cider Hall, The Reach
Garrett Flowers	Ser Garth Tyrell	Unknown	The Reach
Garse Flowers	Ser Garth Tyrell	Unknown	The Reach
Ser Glendon Flowers	Ser Quentyn Ball	Whore of the Pussywillow	The Reach
Ser Mervyn Flowers	Lord Unknown Peake	Unknown	The Reach
Ser Robert Flowers	Unknown	Unknown	The Reach
Jafer Flowers	Unknown	Unknown	The Reach
Maester Walys Flowers	Archmaester	Unknown Hightower	Oldtown, The Reach
Ser Aegor Rivers	Aegon IV Targaryen	Barbra Bracken	Stone Hedge, Riverlands
Alys Rivers	Unknown	Unknown	Riverlands
Ser Benedict Rivers (later King Justman)	Unknown Blackwood (or visa versa)	Unknown Bracken (or visa versa)	Riverlands
Brynden Rivers	Aegon IV Targaryen	Melissa Blackwood	Riverlands/King's Landing
Harry Rivers	Lord Jonos Bracken	Unknown	Stone Hedge, Riverlands
Red Robb Rivers	Unknown Blackwood	Unknown	Raventree, Riverlands
Ser Samwell Rivers	Lord Tommen Tully	Unknown	Riverlands
Ser Tristan Rivers	Unknown	Unknown	Riverlands
Ser Walder Rivers	Lord Walder Frey	Unknown	The Twins, Riverlands
Cedrik Storm	Unknown Buckler	Unknown	Bronzegate, Stormlands
Edric Storm	King Robert Baratheon	Delena Florent	Storm's End, Stormlands
Ser Rolland Storm	Lord Bryen Caron	Unknown	Nightsong, Stormlands
Ronald Storm	Ser Ronnet Connington	Unknown	Stormlands
King Ronard Storm	Unknown Durrandon	Unknown	Storm's End, Stormlands
Mya Stone	King Robert Baratheon	Unknown Servant	Gates of the Moon, Vale
Ser Samwell Stone	Unknown	Unknown	Vale
Ser Addison Hill	Unknown Swyft	Unknown	Cornfield, Westerlands
Joy Hill	Ser Gerion Lannister	Briony	Casterly Rock, Westerlands
Sweet Donnel Hill	Unknown Lannister	Unknown	Westerlands
Lynora Hill	Ser Jason Lannister	Unknown Serving Girl	Westerlands
Robin Hill	Unknown	Unknown	Westerlands
Ser Tyler Hill	Unknown	Unknown	Lannisport, Westerlands

All the notable Bastards of ASOIAF, for Melisandra

Last Edit: Jan 20, 2016 4:34:57 GMT by whitewolfstark

Lady Dyanna
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And Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna. Blah. Blah. Blah. Hand me the war hammer!

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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 4:43:39 GMT whitewolfstark likes this

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Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 20, 2016 4:43:39 GMT

Damn, whitewolfstark, Impressive as always.

Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility?
The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t?
The I-will to their better-nots?

SlyWren
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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 5:15:18 GMT whitewolfstark likes this

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Post by SlyWren on Jan 20, 2016 5:15:18 GMT

whitewolfstark --I second Lady Dyanna . Wow.

So, if I'm reading all of the right, it seems that the name is tied to where the person grew up, yes?

ETA: And, when I first saw the title of the thread, all I could think was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So, Baelish the Bastard Tracker?

Last Edit: Jan 20, 2016 5:21:52 GMT by SlyWren

All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.

Lady Dyanna
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And Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna. Blah. Blah. Blah. Hand me the war hammer!

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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 5:25:45 GMT

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Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 20, 2016 5:25:45 GMT

Jan 20, 2016 5:15:18 GMT SlyWren said:

whitewolfstark --I second Lady Dyanna . Wow.

So, if I'm reading all of the right, it seems that the name is tied to where the person grew up, yes?

That's what we're trying to figure out for sure. This all came up in the 20 questions thread due to Bloodraven. Melisandra answered that he was from the crownlands. But Wraith was saying that answer threw him off as he's from the Riverlands as he's Brynden "Rivers." By then I think all of us were confused. From what I could tell when I looked it up, he was born and spent most of his life in King's Landing and at court. Now his mother, Missy Blackwood was from the Riverlands, but she was never exiled from King's Landing like Bittersteel's mother was, allowing Bloodraven to maintain close ties at court and live the majority of his life there. So if he was born in King's Landing and spent the majority of his life living there, why is he a Rivers and not a Waters? Daemon Blackfyre was originally a Waters. The only difference I'm seeing is that his mother was a Targaryan.

Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility?
The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t?
The I-will to their better-nots?

whitewolfstark
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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 6:20:23 GMT

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Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 6:20:23 GMT

Jan 20, 2016 5:25:45 GMT Lady Dyanna said:

Jan 20, 2016 5:15:18 GMT SlyWren said:

whitewolfstark --I second Lady Dyanna . Wow.

So, if I'm reading all of the right, it seems that the name is tied to where the person grew up, yes?

That's what we're trying to figure out for sure. This all came up in the 20 questions thread due to Bloodraven. Melisandra answered that he was from the crownlands. But Wraith was saying that answer threw him off as he's from the Riverlands as he's Brynden "Rivers." By then I think all of us were confused. From what I could tell when I looked it up, he was born and spent most of his life in King's Landing and at court. Now his mother, Missy Blackwood was from the Riverlands, but she was never exiled from King's Landing like Bittersteel's mother was, allowing Bloodraven to maintain close ties at court and live the majority of his life there. So if he was born in King's Landing and spent the majority of his life living there, why is he a Rivers and not a Waters? Daemon Blackfyre was originally a Waters. The only difference I'm seeing is that his mother was a Targaryan.

Actually she was dismissed from court after Bethany Bracken replaced Melissa in 177 at the end of Melissa's five years a mistress. (Hey that could be a spin off of ASOIAF: Five Years a Mistress

) He was however able to maintain ties and contacts with King's Landing when he and his mother returned to the Riverlands, because of his mother's popularity. So he primarily grew up in the Riverlands but was able to keep in contact with King's Landing as he grew up.

Last Edit: Jan 20, 2016 6:22:06 GMT by whitewolfstark

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Bastard Tracker Jan 20, 2016 18:10:34 GMT

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Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 18:10:34 GMT

Jan 20, 2016 16:53:00 GMT @serduncan said:

Jan 20, 2016 4:34:24 GMT whitewolfstark said:

Tyrion Tanner
Gang Rape
Lady Lollys Stokeworth
Stokeworth, Crownlands

First off:- Well done WWF!

I'm guessing wee Tyrion's last name came from the World Book? Interesting that we never got Bronn's surname in the books. So is Tanner Bronn's surname?

No, it's mentioned in the ADWD appendix. Tyrion Tanner, of the Hundred Fathers. He's called Tanner, because Lollys was gang raped in the alley behind a Tanner's shop.

Bronn is simply listed in ADWD as "Ser Bronn of the Blackwater". So likely, if he has any descendants they'll likely take the name Blackwater or perhaps Stokeworth considering that Bronn's thinned out the rest of House Stokeworth beyond Lollys and Tyrion Tanner.

Last Edit: Jan 20, 2016 18:11:18 GMT by whitewolfstark

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Bastard Tracker Jan 21, 2016 4:36:37 GMT

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Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 21, 2016 4:36:37 GMT

Jan 21, 2016 3:55:09 GMT @serduncan said:

Jan 20, 2016 17:23:42 GMT @danceswithflagons said:

I believe the name came from Lollys rape occurring near a tanner shop.

Jan 20, 2016 18:10:34 GMT whitewolfstark said:

No, it's mentioned in the ADWD appendix. Tyrion Tanner, of the Hundred Fathers. He's called Tanner, because Lollys was gang raped in the alley behind a Tanner's shop.

Bronn is simply listed in ADWD as "Ser Bronn of the Blackwater". So likely, if he has any descendants they'll likely take the name Blackwater or perhaps Stokeworth considering that Bronn's thinned out the rest of House Stokeworth beyond Lollys and Tyrion Tanner.

See this is what comes of not reading the appendices. Thanks guys.

And it's yet another clue as to how bastards are named. They can be named after specific events, so there's no hard and fast rules.

I also think it depends upon how highborn or lowborn the second parent is. If you have a bastard child of two nobles, that's a different breed of bastard than a bastard child of a noble man and a smallfolk woman. And that's still a different breed of bastard child of a noble woman and a smallfolk man.

Tyrion Tanner falls into the latter category.
Addam and Alyn of Hull fall into the middle category, as does Gendry (who lacks a surname).
Edric Storm falls into the first category.

Lady Dyanna
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Queen of Love & Beauty

And Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna. Blah. Blah. Blah. Hand me the war hammer!

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Bastard Tracker Jan 22, 2016 13:01:17 GMT via Tapatalk Mojo, SlyWren, and 4 more like this

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Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 22, 2016 13:01:17 GMT

Why must I always be the isle of crazy alone in an ocean of sensibility?
The should to everybody else’s shouldn’t?
The I-will to their better-nots?

slant Quentyn Martell Posts: 203 slant inherit Male 80 0 Feb 25, 2023 9:17:21 GMT 321 slant 203 Quentyn Martell Mar 9, 2016 12:18:25 GMT March 2016 slant	Bastard Tracker Mar 17, 2016 12:57:20 GMT SlyWren and whitewolfstark like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by slant on Mar 17, 2016 12:57:20 GMT hey I found a pattern Overweight Kings leave behind lots of troublesome bastards. Aegon IV Targaryen and Robert Baratheon Also only 3 bastards in the north

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Bastard Tracker Mar 25, 2016 13:05:53 GMT via mobile SlyWren likes this

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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 13:05:53 GMT

Mar 17, 2016 12:57:20 GMT slant said:

hey I found a pattern
Overweight Kings leave behind lots of troublesome bastards. Aegon IV Targaryen and Robert Baratheon
Also only 3 bastards in the north

I just found this, slant. I'm a visual person and this is amazingly clearer for me. Thank you for the "translation"!

SlyWren
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Bastard Tracker Mar 26, 2016 17:45:59 GMT whitewolfstark likes this

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Post by SlyWren on Mar 26, 2016 17:45:59 GMT

Mar 17, 2016 12:57:20 GMT slant said:

hey I found a pattern
Overweight Kings leave behind lots of troublesome bastards. Aegon IV Targaryen and Robert Baratheon
Also only 3 bastards in the north

1. Wow!!

2. The fact that we're tracking southron bastards vs. Northern--seems like the Southron's bastardy is more of a potential key to what will happen.

And with that banal truism. . . I will keep looking.

All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.

SlyWren Silverwing Bird I sing of Olaf, glad and big, whose warmest heart recoiled at war. Posts: 2,932 Mini-Profile Theme: Example 1 SlyWren inherit Bird Female 18 0 Jul 23, 2015 19:18:09 GMT 5,072 SlyWren I sing of Olaf, glad and big, whose warmest heart recoiled at war. 2,932 Silverwing Jul 23, 2015 19:11:19 GMT July 2015 slywren Example 1	Bastard Tracker Mar 26, 2016 18:57:49 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by SlyWren on Mar 26, 2016 18:57:49 GMT And slant: Since we can't edit after a certain time has passed, I forgot to say:
	All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.

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Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 4:34:24 GMT

Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 20, 2016 4:43:39 GMT

Post by SlyWren on Jan 20, 2016 5:15:18 GMT

Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 20, 2016 5:25:45 GMT

Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 6:20:23 GMT

Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 20, 2016 18:10:34 GMT

Post by whitewolfstark on Jan 21, 2016 4:36:37 GMT

Post by Lady Dyanna on Jan 22, 2016 13:01:17 GMT

Post by slant on Mar 17, 2016 12:57:20 GMT

Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 13:05:53 GMT

Post by SlyWren on Mar 26, 2016 17:45:59 GMT

Post by SlyWren on Mar 26, 2016 18:57:49 GMT