Post by whitewolfstark on Feb 26, 2016 2:29:26 GMT
Many times has this question been asked and pondered during the course of many rereads undergone by all of us. Tonally, thematically, and structurally these two novels represent a distinct difference from the three novels that came before them. Many people have written essays on how Martin is trying to fill time before the next big act occurs in his story. Others have commented on how these two novels focus much more on the devastation and aftermath caused by the events of the first three novels. Others will note the attention to world building that occurs, or even the fact that the two novels are more character studies stretched into novel length contemplations. However, while I was rereading Tyrion IV in my ADWD and AFFC joint reread, an answer suddenly struck me that hadn't occurred to me before.
It occurred during the sparring session Young Griff has with Duck and GRRM goes into the details of the sparring far more than might be necessary. However it isn't until Young Griff gets Duck into the river that the epiphany came.
The novels are written like they're easy-made for television adaptation.
I know that most of you are going to wonder what exactly I mean considering that the TV show skipped and condensed a lot of material from AFFC and ADWD or invented their own material (eyes TV!Dorne and pokes it with a stick with irritation), but before you hit reply, let me explain myself.
The chapters starting from AFFC are written typically with several smaller incidents and scene per chapter that.
In AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS, all the chapters usually felt like they were building to depicting one definite moment, one important scene, one choice or obstacle that the POV character must meet or become aware of. Sure there might be little things here or there. And in a few chapters of AFFC it feels like that's still the case (most notably in The Captain of the Guards, The Soiled Knight, & The Kraken's Daughter--typically the chapters labelled fancifully have the old style from the earlier novels), but this is soon abandoned in favor of chapters depicting a few scenes of equal weight or possible importance--or even several scenes where you're simply spending time with the characters observing how they live, like one might in a few scenes of a sitcom before this episode's major conflict is revealed, or how after having updated us on the actions of certain characters we cut back to other characters and update ourselves on what they're doing.
For example in Tyrion IV I noted that there were a total of four scenes that could be broken off from it. The first being Tyrion's interaction with Septa Lemore. Then the theoretical TV adaptation would likely cut away to other characters for a few minutes. It would later return to Tyrion witnessing the sparring between Aegon and Duck with its typical fantasy-TV trope of "combatant fighting on a ship ends up in the water" resolution, ending with Tyrion being thrown in as well. Cut back to other characters for the episode. Return to Tyrion observing Aegon's lessons and trying to hide his obvious Westerosi noble heritage when the subject of knowledge he shouldn't know comes up. Cut back to other characters. Tyrion's last scene is likely him and Griff talking, likely hinting that Tyrion is bad at disguise and ending with the sailors commenting on how the Old Man of the River is rising from the river and blessing their voyage.
See what I mean? The entire chapter plays out as what Tyrion's character might do for a TV show episode where he doesn't have to do the heavy lifting & made easily adaptable for the small screen by the fact that the chapter jump cuts between mini-scenes--even with built in nudity quota for HBO (Lemore) that (might) serve a narrative purpose (Tyrion sees her stretch marks).
Compare that for example to a Sansa chapter from ASOS (Sansa IV) that likewise doesn't feel very fast moving, the wedding breakfast chapter. In that chapter we witness Sansa & Tyrion getting dressed while she updates us that she's been told that Robb & Cat died), their arrival at the wedding breakfast in the Queen's Ballroom, the giving of gifts to Joffrey and Margaery, Joffrey brandishes Widow's Wail--Sansa realizes it's been made from Ice, and then finally Joffrey slipping up about knowing Valyrian steel, Tyrion making a guess as to what that means, and finally Sansa later tells Tyrion that she would rather not know the details of how her brother and mother died).
Notice how that chapter, had two builds--one was a character defining moment where Sansa sees the aftermath of the utter defeat of her family and has her nose forcibly rubbed in it, and from having that done to her she asks to be spared further humiliation and pain from Tyrion. The other is much more noticeable and is the reveal of the dagger being from Joffrey. Everything in the chapter builds up to these two issues--with most often readers attaching themselves to the reveal of the dagger over Sansa's emotional journey that occurs in the chapter. In any case there's a clear trajectory with a sense of build and purpose to the chapter. In a lot of ways one gets the feeling that the chapter was written with both purposes in mind. In a lot of AGOT through ASOS chapters you can usually tell by the end of the chapter what the "main point" GRRM wanted to hit by writing the chapter, plot-wise or character-wise.
In AFFC and ADWD that sense of "we're building to one definite thing" is gone. The Duck and Young Griff sparring in GRRM's old chapter build up would be the ending point, but here it's the second "scene" in the chapter, with two more after it that don't match the level of "punch" that the sparring had. One comes away at the end of the chapter not sure of what its point was, while having a lot of little bits and pieces of information thrown at us and the opportunity to see where Nymeria and her 1000 ships originally came from.
So in conclusion, AFFC and ADWD have a better sense of TV writing to them than AGOT through ASOS did. They look like they're pre-packaged and awaiting adaptation.
I wonder, since GOT supposedly was under discussion for many years as to the possibility of a TV show--if this talk and the eventual work upon it occurring that was done, along with the scrapped idea of the 5 year skip didn't push GRRM to potentially begin writing the series with the idea of making it easy for adapting to TV in mind? Hence why he thought that he had a lot of material's worth in AFFC and ADWD for adaptation to television in the first place.
It's just an idea I had shortly after the epiphany--I know that GRRM has stated that a lot of what inspired his writing of ASOIAF is a backlash against "Hollywood" and its strict narrative rules, but in earlier novels they were clearly not structured for easy adaptation and the chapters usually had an obvious point and development to them. In the later two novels, not so much.
It occurred during the sparring session Young Griff has with Duck and GRRM goes into the details of the sparring far more than might be necessary. However it isn't until Young Griff gets Duck into the river that the epiphany came.
The novels are written like they're easy-made for television adaptation.
I know that most of you are going to wonder what exactly I mean considering that the TV show skipped and condensed a lot of material from AFFC and ADWD or invented their own material (eyes TV!Dorne and pokes it with a stick with irritation), but before you hit reply, let me explain myself.
The chapters starting from AFFC are written typically with several smaller incidents and scene per chapter that.
In AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS, all the chapters usually felt like they were building to depicting one definite moment, one important scene, one choice or obstacle that the POV character must meet or become aware of. Sure there might be little things here or there. And in a few chapters of AFFC it feels like that's still the case (most notably in The Captain of the Guards, The Soiled Knight, & The Kraken's Daughter--typically the chapters labelled fancifully have the old style from the earlier novels), but this is soon abandoned in favor of chapters depicting a few scenes of equal weight or possible importance--or even several scenes where you're simply spending time with the characters observing how they live, like one might in a few scenes of a sitcom before this episode's major conflict is revealed, or how after having updated us on the actions of certain characters we cut back to other characters and update ourselves on what they're doing.
For example in Tyrion IV I noted that there were a total of four scenes that could be broken off from it. The first being Tyrion's interaction with Septa Lemore. Then the theoretical TV adaptation would likely cut away to other characters for a few minutes. It would later return to Tyrion witnessing the sparring between Aegon and Duck with its typical fantasy-TV trope of "combatant fighting on a ship ends up in the water" resolution, ending with Tyrion being thrown in as well. Cut back to other characters for the episode. Return to Tyrion observing Aegon's lessons and trying to hide his obvious Westerosi noble heritage when the subject of knowledge he shouldn't know comes up. Cut back to other characters. Tyrion's last scene is likely him and Griff talking, likely hinting that Tyrion is bad at disguise and ending with the sailors commenting on how the Old Man of the River is rising from the river and blessing their voyage.
See what I mean? The entire chapter plays out as what Tyrion's character might do for a TV show episode where he doesn't have to do the heavy lifting & made easily adaptable for the small screen by the fact that the chapter jump cuts between mini-scenes--even with built in nudity quota for HBO (Lemore) that (might) serve a narrative purpose (Tyrion sees her stretch marks).
Compare that for example to a Sansa chapter from ASOS (Sansa IV) that likewise doesn't feel very fast moving, the wedding breakfast chapter. In that chapter we witness Sansa & Tyrion getting dressed while she updates us that she's been told that Robb & Cat died), their arrival at the wedding breakfast in the Queen's Ballroom, the giving of gifts to Joffrey and Margaery, Joffrey brandishes Widow's Wail--Sansa realizes it's been made from Ice, and then finally Joffrey slipping up about knowing Valyrian steel, Tyrion making a guess as to what that means, and finally Sansa later tells Tyrion that she would rather not know the details of how her brother and mother died).
Notice how that chapter, had two builds--one was a character defining moment where Sansa sees the aftermath of the utter defeat of her family and has her nose forcibly rubbed in it, and from having that done to her she asks to be spared further humiliation and pain from Tyrion. The other is much more noticeable and is the reveal of the dagger being from Joffrey. Everything in the chapter builds up to these two issues--with most often readers attaching themselves to the reveal of the dagger over Sansa's emotional journey that occurs in the chapter. In any case there's a clear trajectory with a sense of build and purpose to the chapter. In a lot of ways one gets the feeling that the chapter was written with both purposes in mind. In a lot of AGOT through ASOS chapters you can usually tell by the end of the chapter what the "main point" GRRM wanted to hit by writing the chapter, plot-wise or character-wise.
In AFFC and ADWD that sense of "we're building to one definite thing" is gone. The Duck and Young Griff sparring in GRRM's old chapter build up would be the ending point, but here it's the second "scene" in the chapter, with two more after it that don't match the level of "punch" that the sparring had. One comes away at the end of the chapter not sure of what its point was, while having a lot of little bits and pieces of information thrown at us and the opportunity to see where Nymeria and her 1000 ships originally came from.
So in conclusion, AFFC and ADWD have a better sense of TV writing to them than AGOT through ASOS did. They look like they're pre-packaged and awaiting adaptation.
I wonder, since GOT supposedly was under discussion for many years as to the possibility of a TV show--if this talk and the eventual work upon it occurring that was done, along with the scrapped idea of the 5 year skip didn't push GRRM to potentially begin writing the series with the idea of making it easy for adapting to TV in mind? Hence why he thought that he had a lot of material's worth in AFFC and ADWD for adaptation to television in the first place.
It's just an idea I had shortly after the epiphany--I know that GRRM has stated that a lot of what inspired his writing of ASOIAF is a backlash against "Hollywood" and its strict narrative rules, but in earlier novels they were clearly not structured for easy adaptation and the chapters usually had an obvious point and development to them. In the later two novels, not so much.
