Post by arrysfleas on Jul 19, 2016 4:40:52 GMT
The silent watch of the green men.
Who are the green men?
Perhaps you already know, but I have been wondering for sometime and this is is what I will attempt to elucidate here. I have to say, I did not expect to find what I did.
This is a long post but theories have to be well supported. If you trust my methods of analysis(!), just read the final summary.
1. The green men & the Isle of Faces
First let's see what the story tells us about the green men themselves and the Isle of Faces. I will start with the three primary sources of information.
1a. Maester Luwin - The Pact
From this retelling of the Pact, we learn:
Every tree on the island is given a face so the gods can witness the signing.
The sacred order of green men is formed:
The purpose of the order is to keep watch over the Isle of Faces; the WIF also mentions tending the trees, but weirwoods are not known to require tending, so the intent is to guard the island.
Let's have a look at 'the wise of both races' :
Greenseers are the wise men of the children. Either of the green eye or the red eye variety (see below).
Men have greenseers too as we see in the next paragraph, so the wise of both races are the greenseers of both races.
I should point out here that greenseers are few and far between:
Bloodraven tells Bran that greenseers are one in a million among men.
Among children, he says 'once in a great while', which is very vague. Children greenseers may live few years, but we know their years are very much longer than men.
My impression is that there would have been few children greenseers and even less men greenseers at the time of the Pact.
As few as they were, they had strong powers of persuasion.
1b. Old Nan's tales
Old Nan can only be understood if you have the sound of her needles going click-click-click in your hears... a repetitive sound.
Old Nan tells Bran that the green men sometimes (only sometimes) have antlers. She also confirms that the green men are the guardians of the Isle. They ride on elks, have dark green skin and leaves instead of hair.
I will leave the mention of antlers and elks for the time being.
1c. Maester Yandel
Maester Yandel tells us that some children may be living on the Isle with the green men but he is not sure that the green men still live there anyway. He demystifies somewhat the tales going around which Bran has heard about their clothes and horns (antlers).
He also tells us that foolhardy visitors are not welcome to the Isles as they are chased away by winds and ravens.
He tells us that some children may have gone to the Neck, in the safety of bogs and crannogs.
He adds that the Andals never succeeded in destroying the green men.
Interlude - the wood dancers
Aside from the symbolism, what Asha is seeing are soldiers camouflaged to look like trees.
As the children usually dressed in leaves and bark, one can assume that their hunters would have perhaps added to their camouflage with tree branches and danced from tree to tree (or ceremonially perhaps) as they hunted prey.
The wood dancers are the warrior trees.
Now, let's have a look at who else is mentioned in relation with the green men and the Isle of Faces.
1d. Visitors and would-be visitors of the Isle of faces
The little crannogman
This story which I refer to as the KLT, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, is told Bran by crannogwoman Meera. This is only half of Meera's tale as I am leaving out what happened after the little crannogman's visit to the Isle.
The little crannogman wanted to see the green men; he is rather adventurous for a crannogman, he knows the magic of the crannogs (mentioned three times) and he stayed on the Isle likely for some months. He also prays to the old gods of the Neck. His prayers are answered.
We know that those who pray to the old gods do so by talking to the weirwood trees. Weaving words evokes spells hence magic.
He could make castles appear and disappear: this likely describes large floating crannogs, here one day, gone the next. Crannogs are artificial islands.
However since he does not have green dreams, we can assume that he has not gone to the Isle because someone meddled with his brain whilst he slept.
The crannogmen seldom leave their land, hence usually not the adventurous type.
I am puzzled by the meaning of changing water to earth and vice versa. Perhaps it is a nod to the ancient Greeks; Thales of Miletus proposed that the earth is at rest because it is of the nature of wood and similar substances which have the capacity to float on water.
From which we can imagine islands floating one day, drowning the next.
Grigg the Goat
Where does this name Grigg come from? One should always check the author choice of names, you never know when you will find a 'John Snow' or a 'Jen':
[Surnamedb.com] - This interesting name is Scottish in origin, and is a diminutive form of the given name "Gregory", which is from the Greek "Gregorios", a derivative of "Gregorein", to be awake or watchful. Later, in its Latin form of "Gregorius", the name came to be associated by folk etymology with "grex", "gregis", meaning "flock" or "herd", and thus was interpreted as the christian image of "the good shepherd".
and WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
[Wikipedia] - Comet Grigg–Skjellerup is a periodic comet.
The comet has often suffered the gravitational influence of Jupiter, which has altered its orbit considerably.
… In 1972 the comet was discovered to produce a meteor shower, the Pi Puppids, and its current orbit makes them peak around April 23, for observers in the southern hemisphere, best seen when the comet is near perihelion.
Note, this comet was discovered prior to our story's publication.
I did mention that one should check names.
Grigg the Goat, leads Jon and the wildlings in the Gift past villages and knows where Queenscrown is; Styr, the Magnar does not hesitate in following him. He is good humoured, adventurous – he is the good shepherd.
He probably acquired his nickname from being a good climber; he was the first of Jon's wildling party to reach the top of the Wall (Storm Jon 4).
He yearned to visit the green men on the Isle of Faces and is named after a comet which produces meteor showers.
There is a certain parallel between Grigg and Bran:
Addam Velaryon (aka Addam of Hull)
Whilst the WIF tells us us that Adam's visit to the Isle is not 'know fact', it is just too good to ignore. The WIF may be considered semi-canon, nevertheless it was (co-) written by Martin.
Adam, the first man created in the image of God (Genesis), is a LOYAL – legitimised – bastard who went to the Isle of Faces to seek counsel and later gave his life for his men (in a three way dragon battle if you are so interested).
He rode a dragon so neither winds nor ravens would have troubled him; the dragon is called Seasmoke, now, isn't there a tale about 'smoke and salt'?
Now we do know about another – perhaps legitimised by his brother – bastard who stayed loyal:
As if to say, forget it, not possible, not done, the green men would not allow it .
In summary we have only three characters mentioned in relation to the green men and the Isle of Faces, and Bran reminds us that no one is meant to visit the Isle. The first two:
- a gregarious and adventurous wildling, the good shepherd, who is named after has a meteor dropping comet and yearned to go visit the green men
- a loyal bastard who gave his life for his men and rode the dragon named of smoke and salt, and who may have visited the isle
- an inquisitive crannogman who knows magic and did stay on the isle for quite some time.
1e. Summary – the green men and the Isle of Faces
When the wise men, i.e. the greenseers of the First Men and of the children, managed to prevail on the warring factions, they forged the Pact; an order of men, called the green men, was established to protect the Isle of Faces where the carved faces of the weirwoods would bear witness.
As the Isle has a weirwood grove, there is a good chance that children live and linger there.
We are told repeatedly (click-click) that the green men occasionally have antlers and once (click) that they ride on elks.
We are told that some children may be living on the Isle with the green men and some others may be living in the crannogs of the Neck. Also that visitors are routinely chased away by nature (winds and ravens) and likely don't even get to the Isle itself.
Three characters of recent history, are directly mentioned with the green men:
- Addam, foremostly loyal, named after the first man, riding a dragon named after salt and smoke. He has traits reminiscent of Jon Snow.
- Grigg, whose name evokes both a good shepherd and a comet wished to visit the Isle and the green men. He has similarities with Bran Stark.
- a magic-wise but non green dreamer crannogman, who prayed to the old gods of the Neck, went to the Isle of Faces and stayed there for months.
Incidentally, his visit took place just before the great tourney at Harrenhal that preceded the fall of the Targaryen dynasty in Westeros.
2. The crannogmen
2a. Status and appearance
The crannogmen are indeed short people, graceful and have green eyes. They, at least some, dress all in green. They live on floating islands.
They seldom leave their land, are secretive and keep to themselves.
Meera is a Lady of House Reed, her brother Jojen has no title, no House. Jojen is dressed all in green, Meera is not. Meera bears arms, Jojen does not.
2b. Their pledge and gods
Whilst Meera says they swore fealty to the King in the North for thousands of years, the WIF mentions centuries, I guess we can take it as going back to the Age of Heroes.
Their oath is very peculiar:
The trees remember the secrets of the old gods and the crannogmen remember the meaning of those secrets - 'the truths' - that First Men knew and now forgotten in Winterfell. Jojen is telling Bran that the Starks have lost their way.
Earth, water and trees will remain when men are gone: is this telling us the situation is beyond redemption?
Men will be gone? Nature will endure.
Interlude – frogs
This post is hard going so let's have a culinary pause.
It looks like like Bran ended up eating more than one!! Frogs are delicacies, crannogmen have good taste.
2c. Crannogmen and children of the forest
The crannogmen and children were close.
Maester Luwin has told Theon just what Jojen told Bran about the secret knowledge of the children known to the crannogmen (see above paragraph, blue text).
The children are said to have lived in crannogs; the Neck also has dense forests of very tall trees where they could have build their tree houses.
The children were quick and graceful, Meera was quick and walk with a supple grace. The crannogmen, both Meera and Jojen, have green eyes; among the children, some of the chosen ones have green eyes.
The fact that 'some say' that they intermarried with the children further supports that they lived closely.
I think that is ample evidence that crannogmen and children co-habited and I suggest for a very long time.
2d. Poisons
The crannogmen may be small in stature but they can take care of themselves. Aside from Meera being able to snare Summer (Clash bran 4), they have mastered deadly poisons.
They are said to be cowardly, because they hide when using poison arrows to defend their land. Well, how else will a 4 foot crannogman fighter take on a 7 foot Andal?
These poisons have even Victarion, who is generally no shrinking violet, quite wary of their potency. And for good reasons it seems as Theon tells us that 'Ralf was rotting' ...enough said! Shades of Dorne.
We also learn that the Citadel is interested in the queer properties of their rare herbs and plants.
This makes me wonder just how Howland Reed, our likely little crannogman, killed (was it him?) Arthur Dayne: probably not with a sword, he would have been much too small in any case.
History records that crannogmen have only bent their knees once, as we will see further on.
2e. Neighbours
The Freys and Ironmen are both prejudiced as well as superstitious about the crannogmen.
And what do the Reeds think about all this?
Fools, that what they think about them. No love lost here and a hint of condescension.
Interlude – lizard-lions
The feared lizard-lions appear to be a local variety of alligators such as found in the Florida wetlands or crocs found in the fresh waters of the Northern Territory.
Game Sansa 1 Arya: 'Mycah showed me a lizard-lion '
Sansa: lizard-lions floating half-submerged in the water, like black logs with eyes and teeth
Storm Arya 12 Sandor: 'There's lizard lions in those swamps that eat wolves every day for breakfast. '
Dance Reek 2 monstrous lizard lions with teeth like daggers.
WIF Singers tell of them [the Marsh Kings] riding on lizard lions.
I think the Hound was trying to discourage the 'little wolf bitch' from going to the Wall via the Neck, it is unlikely a wolf would venture in wetlands.
If the greenseers could skinchange even fish (Clash Bran 4), I can see no reason why the crannogmen, who know magic, would not be able to skinchange lizard-lions.
The lizard part of the name makes sense from the descriptions given, but why are they also called lions?
2f. The Marsh Kings
The Marsh Kings who ruled the crannogmen were first among equals. They had eyes of strange hues which identified them as touched by the gods and where skinchangers like the children.
King Rickard Stark, the Laughing Wolf, killed their last king and took his daughter to wife. Which means that the Starks have inherited 'superior' crannogmen blood. We also know they have inherited skinchanger blood from the Warg King (rf The WIF - The North: The Kings of Winter). So a double dose of magic blood.
They were able to hold Moat Cailin against invaders from the south.
For the aficionados of the KLT story, perhaps his sigil, a weirwood with a laughing face, actually represents the union of crannogmen and Starks, blessed by the old gods.
The Green King of the Gods Eye found in the songs and tales dates back to the the Age of Heroes. I wonder what he did to have songs and stories written about him.
2g. Summary - crannogmen
The crannogmen are green eyed, small but graceful people; they seldom leave their land, are secretive and keep to themselves.
Their pledge is all encompassing: nature, men, magic. They do not choose between ice and magic.
The crannogmen have deadly weapons, have protected the Neck from all but one (jovial) Stark King. They are feared by their neighbours whom they think they are but fools.
Meera and Jojen, although siblings, differ in status, dress and weaponry.
There are many similarities between the crannogmen and the children:
The crannogmen do not have maesters nor ravens as mentioned by Meera (Clash Bran 4) "Ravens can't find Greywater Watch, no more than our enemies can." ..."Because it moves,"
Interlude – antlers and frog spears
Way back at the beginning of this post, Old Nan told Bran tales of the green men and their antlers. Now some of you are very interested in antlers, so you may dismiss what I propose. Never mind!
If you have seen the movie The Gods Must be Crazy (if you have not, you are missing out!) you may recall the little bushman boy who held a long stick above his head to appear taller than he was in order to keep the hyenas from attacking him. Wisdom of the bushmen.
Now just imagine a small crannogman, walking between the tall reeds of his wetlands, carrying a tall three-pronged frog spear. If a 'foolish' Frey happen to see him from a distance, what would he see? A head with antlers, that is what he would see.
3. Green dreams
As we now know a fair bit about the crannogmen, it is time to turn our attention to a particular aspect of their magic. The source of information here is Jojen only; there are no other contemporary characters known to have green dreams.
First, let's not mix up greensight and green dreams:
Greenseers were able to see through the eyes of the weirwoods and see the truth that lies beneath the world.
Note how Jojen says 'Greenseers were more than that' and 'Greenseers were wargs as well'
Is he saying that there are none left? even though he tells Bran he needs a teacher and relentlessly takes him there.
Did the crannogmen have greenseers? And now they have none left?
'So much we never knew': that is really leaving an open Pandora’s box!
Jojen was very sick when he was little and the crow came to him.
Green dreams are true, that fact is repeated several times in these conversations (and more elsewhere).
However they need to be interpreted and even Jojen is mistaken as he sees Reek skinning off the faces of Bran and Rickon. But he is not mistaken when he sees the boys in the crypts, he associated the two parts of the dream and assumed they were dead at that time.
This makes me think that the source/provider of the green dream, the crow, was fooled when 'it' saw two boys being skinned.
We know that greensights have to be interpreted from reading about Bran, later in the story, when in the children’s' cave he 'sees' through the bleeding eyes of the Winterfell heart tree.
I suggest green dreams are originated by greenseers who can be fooled by a masquerade.
However since Jojen tells us that 'Greenseers were able to see the truth that lies beneath the world', we can only conclude that Bloodraven who is 'the last greenseer' does not always see that which lies beneath.
Having said that, Jojen appears to be very good at interpreting his dreams as they usually come true.
There are a lot of similarities between greendreams and R'hllor's red priests flame visions. Who is the source/provider of these visions?
The greendream compelled Jojen to act, come to Winterfell and take Bran north beyond the Wall. He knows his fate and is resigned to it. Meera is bitter, she is aware of the fatality attached to this dream.
It was a mission, they both knew it.
4. Overall summary
Who are the green men?
They where chosen by both First Men and children to protect the Isle of Faces where the weirwood trees grow with their bleeding faces so that the gods can be witness to the Pact.
The crannogmen have been close to the children since before that time, sharing old gods and magic and living with them in the crannogs of the Neck.
The crannogmen are secretive and keep to themselves. Visitors are not welcome on the Isle of Faces and either winds rising on the Gods Eye or flocks of ravens will keep keep them away.
They have poisonous weapons with which they guard their wetlands; they make for a highly protective force on such an isolated island as the Isle of Faces.
In the tales, green men have antlers and in reality the small crannogmen carry three-pronged frog spears sticking over their heads.
There were Marsh Kings in the Neck and there is a legendary Green King of the Gods Eye.
Chosen crannogmen have prophetic green dreams that come true. The green dreamers are different in crannog society: no title, no arms, green from head to toe (unlike both the little crannogman and Meera, Jojen did not dress in bronze scales, nor bore arms).
The crannogmen do not keep ravens, so green dreams are a convenient way for a greenseer to send someone on a mission; this allows the wise greenseers to keep up the numbers of guardians on the Isle of Faces across thousands of years.
The one and only character in our story who has gone and lived on the Isle of Faces is a crannogman.
Having said all that, I am pretty convinced that the green men are the green dreamers of the crannogmen [ETA] and the crannogmen hunters whom they lead there. Their mission is to protect the Isle of Faces so the greenseers and lingerers can witness the Pact.
But we need to taste this frogeater story just a little more.
I need to come back to this sentence from the WIF:
'some say they are small in stature because they intermarried with the children of the forest'
and this one from Jojen (Storm Bran 1):
'We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends'
This implies that the crannogmen are not First Men. However these First Men were friends of the children.
I have noted the physical similarities between children and crannogmen and there are mental similarities as well: greendreams, spell weaving, tree talking.
[ETA] Jojen, 'the little grand father' seems to be doomed to a short life, just like the 'chosen ones' of the children.
So it is quite likely that the tales are true, that crannogmen descend from the First Men and the children from a time when they both lived in friendly terms in the Neck.
I know this is a leap of faith, but Martin does not usually waste his words.
Jojen adds 'but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew'.
Is he saying that the origin of their race is forgotten? I think so.
As it appears that the crannogmen descend from both the First Men and the children, it is another excellent reasons why they would have been chosen by the wise men of both races to guard the Isle of Faces.
We already know that Starks have crannog royalty blood by marriage; we now know that crannogs have children blood. It is time to recall this line (Dance Bran 3):
"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden.
Bran may have inherited blood from the children. One in a million.
Let's have a short break.
Interlude – the elk
Old Nan told us just once that green men ride on elks. Jojen, who would have been a green man had he not been given a different mission, did ride an elk. Click.
Grigg and Addam.
A young wildling who wanted to visit the green men, whose name means good shepherd and is associated with a meteor dropping comet, shares similarities with Bran.
A loyal bastard, named after the first man, who rides a dragon named after salt and smoke, who gave his life to save his men and wanted to take counsel from the green men, shares similarities with Jon.
These characters echo the Long Night and the prophecy of the rebirth of Azor Ahai (with a dragon thrown in for good measure).
It is hard to be more central to the story!
Is this not telling us that Jon Snow will give his life to remain loyal to his men, the realm of men? If it is, this story has come to pass. Will it come again?
Is this not telling us that Bran, after learning the secrets of the old gods, the truths of the First men, the truth that lie beneath the world, will be the shepherd to lead men through the coming Long Night?
The suggestion box is open!
5. Postscript – the Gods Eye
I have researched the story of the Gods-Eye as well but I feel this post is long enough. So I will just write my summary.
The Gods Eye is a huge, placid, calm, gentle lake, with good fish within. It was calling to Arya as she looked at it just before she was about to meet the worst of humanity as she fled the Lannisters.
Was it also calling to Lyanna?
The Targaryens fought five major battles beneath, at or above the Gods Eye; three dragons were killed in these battles. In contrast, Brynden Rivers, the last greenseer, was able to stop the second Blackfyre rebellion at the Gods Eye.
During the war of the Five Kings, Tywin Lannister wanted and got fire all around the Gods Eye. At the same time, Nymeria's wolf pack became the boldest in local memory.
Harren the Black, built Harrenhal from the plundering of the locals, the death of thousands of chained captives and the cutting of 3,000 years old weirwoods. His castle was completed the day Aegon the Conqueror arrived in the 7 kingdoms. He was eventually incinerated by Aegon's dragon, Balerion the Black Dread, on the pyre of his castle.
In just these few lines you can get a feeling for the horrors that have taken place at the Gods Eye since Harren the Black started building his castle, in plain sight of the Isle of Faces where the old gods bear witness under the protection of the green men.
I was just about to forget to mention that Arya actually did answer the call of the Gods Eye (Feast Arya 1):
“... The rest of the gods dwell together on an isle in the center of the city. That is where you will find the . . . the Many-Faced God."
The sooner she rejoins Nymeria, the better.
Game Catelyn 1
In the south the last weirwoods had been cut down or burned out a thousand years ago, except on the Isle of Faces where the green men kept their silent watch.
In the south the last weirwoods had been cut down or burned out a thousand years ago, except on the Isle of Faces where the green men kept their silent watch.
Who are the green men?
Perhaps you already know, but I have been wondering for sometime and this is is what I will attempt to elucidate here. I have to say, I did not expect to find what I did.
This is a long post but theories have to be well supported. If you trust my methods of analysis(!), just read the final summary.
1. The green men & the Isle of Faces
First let's see what the story tells us about the green men themselves and the Isle of Faces. I will start with the three primary sources of information.
1a. Maester Luwin - The Pact
Game Bran 7
The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men.... Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye.
"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces.
The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men.... Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye.
"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces.
From this retelling of the Pact, we learn:
- the wise of both races prevailed
- First Men chiefs and heroes meet with the children's greenseers and wood dancers. I have added the word 'children' here because the way the author built the sentence reads like two sides met.
Every tree on the island is given a face so the gods can witness the signing.
The sacred order of green men is formed:
- men, not children
- order implies organised group, again I suggest, men
- sacred: to the First Men and the children.
The purpose of the order is to keep watch over the Isle of Faces; the WIF also mentions tending the trees, but weirwoods are not known to require tending, so the intent is to guard the island.
Let's have a look at 'the wise of both races' :
Game Bran 7 – Maester Luwin
[The children] lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. ...
Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods.
Clash Bran 4
He nodded. "You told me that the children of the forest had the greensight. I remember."
"Some claimed to have that power. Their wise men were called greenseers."
[The children] lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. ...
Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods.
Clash Bran 4
He nodded. "You told me that the children of the forest had the greensight. I remember."
"Some claimed to have that power. Their wise men were called greenseers."
Greenseers are the wise men of the children. Either of the green eye or the red eye variety (see below).
Men have greenseers too as we see in the next paragraph, so the wise of both races are the greenseers of both races.
I should point out here that greenseers are few and far between:
Dance Bran 3
"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer."
… Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."
"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer."
… Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers."
Bloodraven tells Bran that greenseers are one in a million among men.
Among children, he says 'once in a great while', which is very vague. Children greenseers may live few years, but we know their years are very much longer than men.
My impression is that there would have been few children greenseers and even less men greenseers at the time of the Pact.
As few as they were, they had strong powers of persuasion.
1b. Old Nan's tales
Old Nan can only be understood if you have the sound of her needles going click-click-click in your hears... a repetitive sound.
Storm Bran 2 – listening to the Knight of the Laughing Tree (KTL) story
"Maybe he came from the Isle of Faces," said Bran. "Was he green?" In Old Nan's stories, the guardians had dark green skin and leaves instead of hair. Sometimes they had antlers too..
Storm Bran 4 – at the Nightfort
"Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."
"Maybe he came from the Isle of Faces," said Bran. "Was he green?" In Old Nan's stories, the guardians had dark green skin and leaves instead of hair. Sometimes they had antlers too..
Storm Bran 4 – at the Nightfort
"Coldhands," said Bran impatiently. "The green men ride on elks, Old Nan used to say. Sometimes they have antlers too."
Old Nan tells Bran that the green men sometimes (only sometimes) have antlers. She also confirms that the green men are the guardians of the Isle. They ride on elks, have dark green skin and leaves instead of hair.
I will leave the mention of antlers and elks for the time being.
1c. Maester Yandel
WIF - The Coming of First Men
Whether the green men still survive on their isle is not clear although there is the occasional account of some foolhardy young riverlord taking a boat to the isle and catching sight of them before winds rise up or a flock of ravens drives him away. The nursery tales claiming that they are horned and have dark, green skin is a corruption of the likely truth, which is that the green men wore green garments and horned headdresses.
WIF - The Arrival of the Andals
Some few children may have fled to the Neck, where there was safety amidst the bogs and crannogs, but if they did, no trace of them remains. It is possible that a few survived on the Isle of Faces, as some have written, under the protection of the green men, whom the Andals never succeeded in destroying. But again, no definitive proof has ever been found
Whether the green men still survive on their isle is not clear although there is the occasional account of some foolhardy young riverlord taking a boat to the isle and catching sight of them before winds rise up or a flock of ravens drives him away. The nursery tales claiming that they are horned and have dark, green skin is a corruption of the likely truth, which is that the green men wore green garments and horned headdresses.
WIF - The Arrival of the Andals
Some few children may have fled to the Neck, where there was safety amidst the bogs and crannogs, but if they did, no trace of them remains. It is possible that a few survived on the Isle of Faces, as some have written, under the protection of the green men, whom the Andals never succeeded in destroying. But again, no definitive proof has ever been found
Maester Yandel tells us that some children may be living on the Isle with the green men but he is not sure that the green men still live there anyway. He demystifies somewhat the tales going around which Bran has heard about their clothes and horns (antlers).
He also tells us that foolhardy visitors are not welcome to the Isles as they are chased away by winds and ravens.
He tells us that some children may have gone to the Neck, in the safety of bogs and crannogs.
He adds that the Andals never succeeded in destroying the green men.
Interlude - the wood dancers
Dance - the Wayward Bride [at Deepwood Motte]
The woods were on the move, creeping toward the castle like a slow green tide. She thought back to a tale she had heard as a child, about the children of the forest and their battles with the First Men, when the greenseers turned the trees to warriors.
WIF – the coming of the first men
The hunters among the children—their wood dancers—became their warriors as well, but for all their secret arts of tree and leaf, they could only slow the First Men in their advance.
The woods were on the move, creeping toward the castle like a slow green tide. She thought back to a tale she had heard as a child, about the children of the forest and their battles with the First Men, when the greenseers turned the trees to warriors.
WIF – the coming of the first men
The hunters among the children—their wood dancers—became their warriors as well, but for all their secret arts of tree and leaf, they could only slow the First Men in their advance.
Aside from the symbolism, what Asha is seeing are soldiers camouflaged to look like trees.
As the children usually dressed in leaves and bark, one can assume that their hunters would have perhaps added to their camouflage with tree branches and danced from tree to tree (or ceremonially perhaps) as they hunted prey.
The wood dancers are the warrior trees.
Now, let's have a look at who else is mentioned in relation with the green men and the Isle of Faces.
1d. Visitors and would-be visitors of the Isle of faces
The little crannogman
This story which I refer to as the KLT, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, is told Bran by crannogwoman Meera. This is only half of Meera's tale as I am leaving out what happened after the little crannogman's visit to the Isle.
Storm Bran 2
"Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people."
"Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"
"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."
The lad knew the magics of the crannogs,... he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces."
… "It was the green men he meant to find.
"Did he meet the green men?" "Yes," said Meera,
... "All that winter the crannogman stayed on the isle, but when the spring broke he heard the wide world calling and knew the time had come to leave.
… before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be, and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck . . ."
… And so the little crannogman's prayer was answered . . . by the green men, or the old gods, or the children of the forest, who can say?"
If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too. All the tales agreed that the green men had strange magic powers.
Clash Bran 3
He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands.
"Once there was a curious lad who lived in the Neck. He was small like all crannogmen, but brave and smart and strong as well. He grew up hunting and fishing and climbing trees, and learned all the magics of my people."
"Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"
"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."
The lad knew the magics of the crannogs,... he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces."
… "It was the green men he meant to find.
"Did he meet the green men?" "Yes," said Meera,
... "All that winter the crannogman stayed on the isle, but when the spring broke he heard the wide world calling and knew the time had come to leave.
… before he slept he knelt on the lakeshore, looking across the water to where the Isle of Faces would be, and said a prayer to the old gods of north and Neck . . ."
… And so the little crannogman's prayer was answered . . . by the green men, or the old gods, or the children of the forest, who can say?"
If the little crannogman could visit the Isle of Faces, maybe I could too. All the tales agreed that the green men had strange magic powers.
Clash Bran 3
He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands.
The little crannogman wanted to see the green men; he is rather adventurous for a crannogman, he knows the magic of the crannogs (mentioned three times) and he stayed on the Isle likely for some months. He also prays to the old gods of the Neck. His prayers are answered.
We know that those who pray to the old gods do so by talking to the weirwood trees. Weaving words evokes spells hence magic.
He could make castles appear and disappear: this likely describes large floating crannogs, here one day, gone the next. Crannogs are artificial islands.
However since he does not have green dreams, we can assume that he has not gone to the Isle because someone meddled with his brain whilst he slept.
The crannogmen seldom leave their land, hence usually not the adventurous type.
I am puzzled by the meaning of changing water to earth and vice versa. Perhaps it is a nod to the ancient Greeks; Thales of Miletus proposed that the earth is at rest because it is of the nature of wood and similar substances which have the capacity to float on water.
From which we can imagine islands floating one day, drowning the next.
Grigg the Goat
Storm Jon 5
Grigg the Goat led them past the few inhabited villages that remained in these lands.
… Jon was coming to know them despite himself: gaunt, quiet Errok and gregarious Grigg the Goat
… "There's a village close," Grigg the Goat told the Magnar. "Two miles, three. We could shelter there." Styr agreed at once.
… Jon had to bite his tongue. He didn't want to know ... how Grigg yearned to visit the green men on the Isle of Faces...
Grigg the Goat led them past the few inhabited villages that remained in these lands.
… Jon was coming to know them despite himself: gaunt, quiet Errok and gregarious Grigg the Goat
… "There's a village close," Grigg the Goat told the Magnar. "Two miles, three. We could shelter there." Styr agreed at once.
… Jon had to bite his tongue. He didn't want to know ... how Grigg yearned to visit the green men on the Isle of Faces...
Where does this name Grigg come from? One should always check the author choice of names, you never know when you will find a 'John Snow' or a 'Jen':
[Surnamedb.com] - This interesting name is Scottish in origin, and is a diminutive form of the given name "Gregory", which is from the Greek "Gregorios", a derivative of "Gregorein", to be awake or watchful. Later, in its Latin form of "Gregorius", the name came to be associated by folk etymology with "grex", "gregis", meaning "flock" or "herd", and thus was interpreted as the christian image of "the good shepherd".
and WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT?
[Wikipedia] - Comet Grigg–Skjellerup is a periodic comet.
The comet has often suffered the gravitational influence of Jupiter, which has altered its orbit considerably.
… In 1972 the comet was discovered to produce a meteor shower, the Pi Puppids, and its current orbit makes them peak around April 23, for observers in the southern hemisphere, best seen when the comet is near perihelion.
Note, this comet was discovered prior to our story's publication.
I did mention that one should check names.
Grigg the Goat, leads Jon and the wildlings in the Gift past villages and knows where Queenscrown is; Styr, the Magnar does not hesitate in following him. He is good humoured, adventurous – he is the good shepherd.
He probably acquired his nickname from being a good climber; he was the first of Jon's wildling party to reach the top of the Wall (Storm Jon 4).
He yearned to visit the green men on the Isle of Faces and is named after a comet which produces meteor showers.
There is a certain parallel between Grigg and Bran:
- both like to climb and are good at it
- both are good natured
- both are young and thirst for adventure
- both want to visit the green men.
Addam Velaryon (aka Addam of Hull)
The Princess and the Queen
The dragon was Seasmoke, his rider Ser Addam Velaryon, determined to prove that not all bastards need be turncloaks. … Singers say Ser Addam had flown from King’s Landing to the Gods Eye, where he landed on the sacred Isle of Faces and took counsel with the Green Men.
Ser Addam Velaryon had come to prove his loyalty by destroying the Two Betrayers and their dragons, and here was one beneath him, attacking the men who had joined him for this fight. He must have felt duty-bound to protect them, though surely he knew in heart that his Seasmoke could not match the older dragon. The scholar must confine himself to known fact, and what we know is that Ser Addam flew far and fast, descending on castles great and small whose lords were loyal to the queen, to piece together an army.
WIF - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon II - Dance of the Dragons
Young Ser Addam died bravely at the Second Battle of Tumbleton, proving his faithfulness with his life after it had been called into question by the deeds of the Two Betrayers. When his bones were returned to Driftmark from Raventree Hall in 138 AC, the epitaph Lord Alyn put on his tomb consisted of one word: "LOYAL."
The dragon was Seasmoke, his rider Ser Addam Velaryon, determined to prove that not all bastards need be turncloaks. … Singers say Ser Addam had flown from King’s Landing to the Gods Eye, where he landed on the sacred Isle of Faces and took counsel with the Green Men.
Ser Addam Velaryon had come to prove his loyalty by destroying the Two Betrayers and their dragons, and here was one beneath him, attacking the men who had joined him for this fight. He must have felt duty-bound to protect them, though surely he knew in heart that his Seasmoke could not match the older dragon. The scholar must confine himself to known fact, and what we know is that Ser Addam flew far and fast, descending on castles great and small whose lords were loyal to the queen, to piece together an army.
WIF - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon II - Dance of the Dragons
Young Ser Addam died bravely at the Second Battle of Tumbleton, proving his faithfulness with his life after it had been called into question by the deeds of the Two Betrayers. When his bones were returned to Driftmark from Raventree Hall in 138 AC, the epitaph Lord Alyn put on his tomb consisted of one word: "LOYAL."
Whilst the WIF tells us us that Adam's visit to the Isle is not 'know fact', it is just too good to ignore. The WIF may be considered semi-canon, nevertheless it was (co-) written by Martin.
Adam, the first man created in the image of God (Genesis), is a LOYAL – legitimised – bastard who went to the Isle of Faces to seek counsel and later gave his life for his men (in a three way dragon battle if you are so interested).
He rode a dragon so neither winds nor ravens would have troubled him; the dragon is called Seasmoke, now, isn't there a tale about 'smoke and salt'?
Now we do know about another – perhaps legitimised by his brother – bastard who stayed loyal:
- Jon Snow, who deserted from the wildling to warn the NW of their imminent attack and who turned down a tempting offer from Stannis of a lordship and a fair woman.
Storm - Bran 2
"No one visits the Isle of Faces," objected Bran. "That's where the green men live."
"No one visits the Isle of Faces," objected Bran. "That's where the green men live."
As if to say, forget it, not possible, not done, the green men would not allow it .
In summary we have only three characters mentioned in relation to the green men and the Isle of Faces, and Bran reminds us that no one is meant to visit the Isle. The first two:
- a gregarious and adventurous wildling, the good shepherd, who is named after has a meteor dropping comet and yearned to go visit the green men
- a loyal bastard who gave his life for his men and rode the dragon named of smoke and salt, and who may have visited the isle
- an inquisitive crannogman who knows magic and did stay on the isle for quite some time.
1e. Summary – the green men and the Isle of Faces
When the wise men, i.e. the greenseers of the First Men and of the children, managed to prevail on the warring factions, they forged the Pact; an order of men, called the green men, was established to protect the Isle of Faces where the carved faces of the weirwoods would bear witness.
As the Isle has a weirwood grove, there is a good chance that children live and linger there.
We are told repeatedly (click-click) that the green men occasionally have antlers and once (click) that they ride on elks.
We are told that some children may be living on the Isle with the green men and some others may be living in the crannogs of the Neck. Also that visitors are routinely chased away by nature (winds and ravens) and likely don't even get to the Isle itself.
Three characters of recent history, are directly mentioned with the green men:
- Addam, foremostly loyal, named after the first man, riding a dragon named after salt and smoke. He has traits reminiscent of Jon Snow.
- Grigg, whose name evokes both a good shepherd and a comet wished to visit the Isle and the green men. He has similarities with Bran Stark.
- a magic-wise but non green dreamer crannogman, who prayed to the old gods of the Neck, went to the Isle of Faces and stayed there for months.
Incidentally, his visit took place just before the great tourney at Harrenhal that preceded the fall of the Targaryen dynasty in Westeros.
2. The crannogmen
2a. Status and appearance
Clash Bran 3
"The Lady Meera of House Reed," the rotund guardsman bellowed over the clamor. "With her brother, Jojen, of Greywater Watch."
[Meera] She wore lambskin breeches soft with long use, and a sleeveless jerkin armored in bronze scales.
[Jojen] All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss...
Storm - Bran I
All the crannogmen were small, she [Meera] told Bran once when he asked why she wasn't taller. Brown-haired, green-eyed, and flat as a boy, she walked with a supple grace that Bran could only watch and envy. Meera wore a long sharp dagger, but her favorite way to fight was with a slender three-pronged frog spear in one hand and a woven net in the other.
Storm - Bran 2
[the KLT] - So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork."
Meera was a fine huntress, and even better at taking fish from streams with her three-pronged frog spear. Bran liked to watch her, admiring her quickness, the way she sent the spear lancing down and pulled it back with a silvery trout wriggling on the end of it
Game - Bran 7
… He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands. They were a poor folk, fishers and frog-hunters who lived in houses of thatch and woven reeds on floating islands hidden in the deeps of the swamp.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Last (and some might say the least) of the peoples of the North are the swamp-dwellers of the Neck, known as crannogmen for the floating islands on which they raise their halls and hovels. … they are quite secretive, preferring to keep to themselves.
"The Lady Meera of House Reed," the rotund guardsman bellowed over the clamor. "With her brother, Jojen, of Greywater Watch."
[Meera] She wore lambskin breeches soft with long use, and a sleeveless jerkin armored in bronze scales.
[Jojen] All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss...
Storm - Bran I
All the crannogmen were small, she [Meera] told Bran once when he asked why she wasn't taller. Brown-haired, green-eyed, and flat as a boy, she walked with a supple grace that Bran could only watch and envy. Meera wore a long sharp dagger, but her favorite way to fight was with a slender three-pronged frog spear in one hand and a woven net in the other.
Storm - Bran 2
[the KLT] - So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork."
Meera was a fine huntress, and even better at taking fish from streams with her three-pronged frog spear. Bran liked to watch her, admiring her quickness, the way she sent the spear lancing down and pulled it back with a silvery trout wriggling on the end of it
Game - Bran 7
… He tried to recall all he had been taught of the crannogmen, who dwelt amongst the bogs of the Neck and seldom left their wetlands. They were a poor folk, fishers and frog-hunters who lived in houses of thatch and woven reeds on floating islands hidden in the deeps of the swamp.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Last (and some might say the least) of the peoples of the North are the swamp-dwellers of the Neck, known as crannogmen for the floating islands on which they raise their halls and hovels. … they are quite secretive, preferring to keep to themselves.
The crannogmen are indeed short people, graceful and have green eyes. They, at least some, dress all in green. They live on floating islands.
They seldom leave their land, are secretive and keep to themselves.
Meera is a Lady of House Reed, her brother Jojen has no title, no House. Jojen is dressed all in green, Meera is not. Meera bears arms, Jojen does not.
2b. Their pledge and gods
Clash - Bran 3
"My lords of Stark," the girl said. "The years have passed in their hundreds and their thousands since my folk first swore their fealty to the King in the North...
Game - Bran 7
"To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater," they said together. "Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you."
"I swear it by earth and water," said the boy in green.
"I swear it by bronze and iron," his sister said.
"We swear it by ice and fire," they finished together.
Dance - Bran 3
"What will I know?" ... "What do the trees remember?"
"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. …
... "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."
"My lords of Stark," the girl said. "The years have passed in their hundreds and their thousands since my folk first swore their fealty to the King in the North...
Game - Bran 7
"To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater," they said together. "Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you."
"I swear it by earth and water," said the boy in green.
"I swear it by bronze and iron," his sister said.
"We swear it by ice and fire," they finished together.
Dance - Bran 3
"What will I know?" ... "What do the trees remember?"
"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. …
... "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."
Whilst Meera says they swore fealty to the King in the North for thousands of years, the WIF mentions centuries, I guess we can take it as going back to the Age of Heroes.
Their oath is very peculiar:
- earth and water: nature, the support for life - Jojen swears this one, the boy in green
- bronze and iron: the First Men and the Andals - Meera swears this one, she is the warrior
- ice and fire: the two sides of magic; we are repeatedly told that they know about magic, but it appears they do NOT take sides. Sworn by both of them.
The trees remember the secrets of the old gods and the crannogmen remember the meaning of those secrets - 'the truths' - that First Men knew and now forgotten in Winterfell. Jojen is telling Bran that the Starks have lost their way.
Earth, water and trees will remain when men are gone: is this telling us the situation is beyond redemption?
Men will be gone? Nature will endure.
Interlude – frogs
This post is hard going so let's have a culinary pause.
Game - Bran 7
... "We bring you gifts of fish and frog and fowl," he said.
"I thank you." Bran wondered if he would have to eat a frog to be polite.
Storm - Bran 1
"Meera will be back soon with supper."
"I'm sick of frogs." Meera was a frogeater from the Neck, so Bran couldn't really blame her for catching so many frogs, he supposed, but even so . . .
... "We bring you gifts of fish and frog and fowl," he said.
"I thank you." Bran wondered if he would have to eat a frog to be polite.
Storm - Bran 1
"Meera will be back soon with supper."
"I'm sick of frogs." Meera was a frogeater from the Neck, so Bran couldn't really blame her for catching so many frogs, he supposed, but even so . . .
2c. Crannogmen and children of the forest
Clash – Theon 4
Theon was about to tell him what he ought to do with his wet nurse's fable when Maester Luwin spoke up. "The histories say the crannogmen grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the Neck. It may be that they have secret knowledge."
Game - Bran 7
Maester Luwin ... "They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful.
Storm - Bran 1
We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends . . . but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew."
Storm - Bran 3 – at the Queenscrown tower
"There are trees in the Neck that stand twice as tall as this," her brother reminded her.
"Aye, but they have other trees around them just as high," said Meera. "The world presses close in the Neck, and the sky is so much smaller.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
A small, sly people (some say they are small in stature because they intermarried with the children of the forest, but more likely it results from inadequate nourishment...
… But of the rest, there is no truth to it: crannogmen are men, albeit smaller than most, even if they live in a fashion unique in the Seven Kingdoms.
Theon was about to tell him what he ought to do with his wet nurse's fable when Maester Luwin spoke up. "The histories say the crannogmen grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the Neck. It may be that they have secret knowledge."
Game - Bran 7
Maester Luwin ... "They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful.
Storm - Bran 1
We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends . . . but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew."
Storm - Bran 3 – at the Queenscrown tower
"There are trees in the Neck that stand twice as tall as this," her brother reminded her.
"Aye, but they have other trees around them just as high," said Meera. "The world presses close in the Neck, and the sky is so much smaller.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
A small, sly people (some say they are small in stature because they intermarried with the children of the forest, but more likely it results from inadequate nourishment...
… But of the rest, there is no truth to it: crannogmen are men, albeit smaller than most, even if they live in a fashion unique in the Seven Kingdoms.
The crannogmen and children were close.
Maester Luwin has told Theon just what Jojen told Bran about the secret knowledge of the children known to the crannogmen (see above paragraph, blue text).
The children are said to have lived in crannogs; the Neck also has dense forests of very tall trees where they could have build their tree houses.
The children were quick and graceful, Meera was quick and walk with a supple grace. The crannogmen, both Meera and Jojen, have green eyes; among the children, some of the chosen ones have green eyes.
The fact that 'some say' that they intermarried with the children further supports that they lived closely.
I think that is ample evidence that crannogmen and children co-habited and I suggest for a very long time.
2d. Poisons
The crannogmen may be small in stature but they can take care of themselves. Aside from Meera being able to snare Summer (Clash bran 4), they have mastered deadly poisons.
Game Bran 7
It was said that they were a cowardly people who fought with poisoned weapons and preferred to hide from foes rather than face them in open battle.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
... many a merchant has brought rare herbs and plants with many queer properties to the Citadel, for the maesters seek such things out to better understand their properties and their value.
A Feast for Crows - The Iron Captain (Victarion)
In Moat Cailin he had taken to wearing mail day and night. Sore shoulders and an aching back were easier to bear than bloody bowels. The poisoned arrows of the bog devils need only scratch a man, and a few hours later he would be squirting and screaming as his life ran down his legs in gouts of red and brown.
Dance - Reek 2
Ralf was rotting too...
"What happened to him?" asked Reek.
"He was on the parapets and some bog devil loosed an arrow at him. It was only a graze, but … they poison their shafts, smear the points with shit and worse things. We poured boiling wine into the wound, but it made no difference."
It was said that they were a cowardly people who fought with poisoned weapons and preferred to hide from foes rather than face them in open battle.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
... many a merchant has brought rare herbs and plants with many queer properties to the Citadel, for the maesters seek such things out to better understand their properties and their value.
A Feast for Crows - The Iron Captain (Victarion)
In Moat Cailin he had taken to wearing mail day and night. Sore shoulders and an aching back were easier to bear than bloody bowels. The poisoned arrows of the bog devils need only scratch a man, and a few hours later he would be squirting and screaming as his life ran down his legs in gouts of red and brown.
Dance - Reek 2
Ralf was rotting too...
"What happened to him?" asked Reek.
"He was on the parapets and some bog devil loosed an arrow at him. It was only a graze, but … they poison their shafts, smear the points with shit and worse things. We poured boiling wine into the wound, but it made no difference."
They are said to be cowardly, because they hide when using poison arrows to defend their land. Well, how else will a 4 foot crannogman fighter take on a 7 foot Andal?
These poisons have even Victarion, who is generally no shrinking violet, quite wary of their potency. And for good reasons it seems as Theon tells us that 'Ralf was rotting' ...enough said! Shades of Dorne.
We also learn that the Citadel is interested in the queer properties of their rare herbs and plants.
This makes me wonder just how Howland Reed, our likely little crannogman, killed (was it him?) Arthur Dayne: probably not with a sword, he would have been much too small in any case.
History records that crannogmen have only bent their knees once, as we will see further on.
2e. Neighbours
Storm - Catelyn 6
"Sire," Lord Walder said, "forgive my Aegon the noise. He has less wits than a crannogman, and he's never met a king before. One of Stevron's boys. We call him Jinglebell."
Clash - Theon 4
"Frogeaters don't smell like men," Frey insisted. "They have a boggy stink, like frogs and trees and scummy water. Moss grows under their arms in place of hair, and they can live with nothing to eat but mud and breathe swamp water."
Dance - The Iron Suitor
No true man killed with poison. At Moat Cailin the bog devils had loosed poisoned arrows at his men, but that was to be expected from such degraded creatures. ... Poison was for cravens, women, and Dornishmen.
"Sire," Lord Walder said, "forgive my Aegon the noise. He has less wits than a crannogman, and he's never met a king before. One of Stevron's boys. We call him Jinglebell."
Clash - Theon 4
"Frogeaters don't smell like men," Frey insisted. "They have a boggy stink, like frogs and trees and scummy water. Moss grows under their arms in place of hair, and they can live with nothing to eat but mud and breathe swamp water."
Dance - The Iron Suitor
No true man killed with poison. At Moat Cailin the bog devils had loosed poisoned arrows at his men, but that was to be expected from such degraded creatures. ... Poison was for cravens, women, and Dornishmen.
The Freys and Ironmen are both prejudiced as well as superstitious about the crannogmen.
And what do the Reeds think about all this?
Storm - Bran 2
"That's true," said Jojen. "Andals and ironmen, Freys and other fools, all those proud warriors who set out to conquer Greywater. Not one of them could find it. They ride into the Neck, but not back out...”
"That's true," said Jojen. "Andals and ironmen, Freys and other fools, all those proud warriors who set out to conquer Greywater. Not one of them could find it. They ride into the Neck, but not back out...”
Fools, that what they think about them. No love lost here and a hint of condescension.
Interlude – lizard-lions
The feared lizard-lions appear to be a local variety of alligators such as found in the Florida wetlands or crocs found in the fresh waters of the Northern Territory.
Game Sansa 1 Arya: 'Mycah showed me a lizard-lion '
Sansa: lizard-lions floating half-submerged in the water, like black logs with eyes and teeth
Storm Arya 12 Sandor: 'There's lizard lions in those swamps that eat wolves every day for breakfast. '
Dance Reek 2 monstrous lizard lions with teeth like daggers.
WIF Singers tell of them [the Marsh Kings] riding on lizard lions.
I think the Hound was trying to discourage the 'little wolf bitch' from going to the Wall via the Neck, it is unlikely a wolf would venture in wetlands.
If the greenseers could skinchange even fish (Clash Bran 4), I can see no reason why the crannogmen, who know magic, would not be able to skinchange lizard-lions.
The lizard part of the name makes sense from the descriptions given, but why are they also called lions?
2f. The Marsh Kings
Game - Bran 7
"That one is Jon Stark. ... His son was Rickard Stark, not my father's father but another Rickard, he took the Neck away from the Marsh King and married his daughter. “
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Long ago, the histories claim, the crannogmen were ruled by the Marsh Kings.... Archmaester Eyron writes that the crannogmen saw their kings as the first among equals, who were often thought to be touched by the old gods—a fact that was said to show itself in eyes of strange hues, or even in speaking with animals as the children are said to have done.
Whatever the truth, the last man to be called Marsh King was killed by King Rickard Stark (sometimes called the Laughing Wolf in the North, for his good nature), who took the man's daughter to wife, whereupon the crannogmen bent their knees and accepted the dominion of Winterfell. In the centuries since, the crannogmen have become stout allies of the Starks, under the leadership of the Reeds of Greywater Watch.
WIF - The North: The Kings of Winter
… whilst to the south, the only way through the swamps of the Neck passed below the ruined towers and sinking walls of the great fortress called Moat Cailin. Even when the Marsh Kings held the Moat, their crannogmen stood staunch against any invaders from the south, allying with the Barrow Kings, Red Kings, and Kings of Winter as need be to turn back any southron lord who sought to attack the North.
"That one is Jon Stark. ... His son was Rickard Stark, not my father's father but another Rickard, he took the Neck away from the Marsh King and married his daughter. “
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Long ago, the histories claim, the crannogmen were ruled by the Marsh Kings.... Archmaester Eyron writes that the crannogmen saw their kings as the first among equals, who were often thought to be touched by the old gods—a fact that was said to show itself in eyes of strange hues, or even in speaking with animals as the children are said to have done.
Whatever the truth, the last man to be called Marsh King was killed by King Rickard Stark (sometimes called the Laughing Wolf in the North, for his good nature), who took the man's daughter to wife, whereupon the crannogmen bent their knees and accepted the dominion of Winterfell. In the centuries since, the crannogmen have become stout allies of the Starks, under the leadership of the Reeds of Greywater Watch.
WIF - The North: The Kings of Winter
… whilst to the south, the only way through the swamps of the Neck passed below the ruined towers and sinking walls of the great fortress called Moat Cailin. Even when the Marsh Kings held the Moat, their crannogmen stood staunch against any invaders from the south, allying with the Barrow Kings, Red Kings, and Kings of Winter as need be to turn back any southron lord who sought to attack the North.
The Marsh Kings who ruled the crannogmen were first among equals. They had eyes of strange hues which identified them as touched by the gods and where skinchangers like the children.
King Rickard Stark, the Laughing Wolf, killed their last king and took his daughter to wife. Which means that the Starks have inherited 'superior' crannogmen blood. We also know they have inherited skinchanger blood from the Warg King (rf The WIF - The North: The Kings of Winter). So a double dose of magic blood.
They were able to hold Moat Cailin against invaders from the south.
For the aficionados of the KLT story, perhaps his sigil, a weirwood with a laughing face, actually represents the union of crannogmen and Starks, blessed by the old gods.
WIF - The Riverlands
Thus, whilst singers and storytellers may regale us with colorful tales of Artos the Strong, Florian the Fool, Nine-Finger Jack, Sharra the Witch Queen, and the Green King of the Gods Eye, the very existence of such personages must be questioned by the serious scholar.
Thus, whilst singers and storytellers may regale us with colorful tales of Artos the Strong, Florian the Fool, Nine-Finger Jack, Sharra the Witch Queen, and the Green King of the Gods Eye, the very existence of such personages must be questioned by the serious scholar.
The Green King of the Gods Eye found in the songs and tales dates back to the the Age of Heroes. I wonder what he did to have songs and stories written about him.
2g. Summary - crannogmen
The crannogmen are green eyed, small but graceful people; they seldom leave their land, are secretive and keep to themselves.
Their pledge is all encompassing: nature, men, magic. They do not choose between ice and magic.
The crannogmen have deadly weapons, have protected the Neck from all but one (jovial) Stark King. They are feared by their neighbours whom they think they are but fools.
Meera and Jojen, although siblings, differ in status, dress and weaponry.
There are many similarities between the crannogmen and the children:
- they are both quick and graceful
- they lived close together in the crannogs of the Neck
- they know similar magic
- they remember the secrets of the old gods.
The crannogmen do not have maesters nor ravens as mentioned by Meera (Clash Bran 4) "Ravens can't find Greywater Watch, no more than our enemies can." ..."Because it moves,"
Interlude – antlers and frog spears
Way back at the beginning of this post, Old Nan told Bran tales of the green men and their antlers. Now some of you are very interested in antlers, so you may dismiss what I propose. Never mind!
Storm - Bran 1
… Meera wore a long sharp dagger, but her favorite way to fight was with a slender three-pronged frog spear in one hand and a woven net in the other.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Long ago, the histories claim, the crannogmen were ruled by the Marsh Kings. Singers tell of them riding on lizard lions and using great frog spears like lances...
… Meera wore a long sharp dagger, but her favorite way to fight was with a slender three-pronged frog spear in one hand and a woven net in the other.
WIF - The North: The Crannogmen of the Neck
Long ago, the histories claim, the crannogmen were ruled by the Marsh Kings. Singers tell of them riding on lizard lions and using great frog spears like lances...
If you have seen the movie The Gods Must be Crazy (if you have not, you are missing out!) you may recall the little bushman boy who held a long stick above his head to appear taller than he was in order to keep the hyenas from attacking him. Wisdom of the bushmen.
Now just imagine a small crannogman, walking between the tall reeds of his wetlands, carrying a tall three-pronged frog spear. If a 'foolish' Frey happen to see him from a distance, what would he see? A head with antlers, that is what he would see.
3. Green dreams
As we now know a fair bit about the crannogmen, it is time to turn our attention to a particular aspect of their magic. The source of information here is Jojen only; there are no other contemporary characters known to have green dreams.
First, let's not mix up greensight and green dreams:
Storm - Bran 1
"No," said Jojen, "only a boy who dreams. The greenseers were more than that. They were wargs as well, as you are, and the greatest of them could wear the skins of any beast that flies or swims or crawls, and could look through the eyes of the weirwoods as well, and see the truth that lies beneath the world.
… To me the gods gave the green dreams, and to you . . . you could be more than me, Bran. You are the winged wolf, and there is no saying how far and high you might fly . . . if you had someone to teach you.
We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends . . . but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew."
"No," said Jojen, "only a boy who dreams. The greenseers were more than that. They were wargs as well, as you are, and the greatest of them could wear the skins of any beast that flies or swims or crawls, and could look through the eyes of the weirwoods as well, and see the truth that lies beneath the world.
… To me the gods gave the green dreams, and to you . . . you could be more than me, Bran. You are the winged wolf, and there is no saying how far and high you might fly . . . if you had someone to teach you.
We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends . . . but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew."
Greenseers were able to see through the eyes of the weirwoods and see the truth that lies beneath the world.
Note how Jojen says 'Greenseers were more than that' and 'Greenseers were wargs as well'
Is he saying that there are none left? even though he tells Bran he needs a teacher and relentlessly takes him there.
Did the crannogmen have greenseers? And now they have none left?
'So much we never knew': that is really leaving an open Pandora’s box!
Clash - Bran 4
I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains," he said. "It was a green dream, so I knew it was true.
… "When I was little I almost died of greywater fever. That was when the crow came to me."
Clash - Bran 5
"The green dreams take strange shapes sometimes," Jojen admitted. "The truth of them is not always easy to understand."
It heartened Bran to hear that. Maybe they won't drown, then, he thought. ... but her brother shook his head. "The things I see in green dreams can't be changed."
"I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade."
….I saw you and Rickon in your crypts, down in the dark with all the dead kings and their stone wolves."
No, Bran thought. No. "If I went away . . . to Greywater, or to the crow, someplace far where they couldn't find me . . ."
"It will not matter. The dream was green, Bran, and the green dreams do not lie."
Clash - Bran 6
One of the ironmen handed Reek a sword, and he laid it at Theon's feet and swore obedience to House Greyjoy and King Balon. Bran could not look. The green dream was coming true.
Storm - Bran 1
What Jojen dreamed came true. Except he dreamed me dead, and I'm not. Only he was, in a way.
I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains," he said. "It was a green dream, so I knew it was true.
… "When I was little I almost died of greywater fever. That was when the crow came to me."
Clash - Bran 5
"The green dreams take strange shapes sometimes," Jojen admitted. "The truth of them is not always easy to understand."
It heartened Bran to hear that. Maybe they won't drown, then, he thought. ... but her brother shook his head. "The things I see in green dreams can't be changed."
"I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade."
….I saw you and Rickon in your crypts, down in the dark with all the dead kings and their stone wolves."
No, Bran thought. No. "If I went away . . . to Greywater, or to the crow, someplace far where they couldn't find me . . ."
"It will not matter. The dream was green, Bran, and the green dreams do not lie."
Clash - Bran 6
One of the ironmen handed Reek a sword, and he laid it at Theon's feet and swore obedience to House Greyjoy and King Balon. Bran could not look. The green dream was coming true.
Storm - Bran 1
What Jojen dreamed came true. Except he dreamed me dead, and I'm not. Only he was, in a way.
Jojen was very sick when he was little and the crow came to him.
Green dreams are true, that fact is repeated several times in these conversations (and more elsewhere).
However they need to be interpreted and even Jojen is mistaken as he sees Reek skinning off the faces of Bran and Rickon. But he is not mistaken when he sees the boys in the crypts, he associated the two parts of the dream and assumed they were dead at that time.
This makes me think that the source/provider of the green dream, the crow, was fooled when 'it' saw two boys being skinned.
We know that greensights have to be interpreted from reading about Bran, later in the story, when in the children’s' cave he 'sees' through the bleeding eyes of the Winterfell heart tree.
I suggest green dreams are originated by greenseers who can be fooled by a masquerade.
However since Jojen tells us that 'Greenseers were able to see the truth that lies beneath the world', we can only conclude that Bloodraven who is 'the last greenseer' does not always see that which lies beneath.
Having said that, Jojen appears to be very good at interpreting his dreams as they usually come true.
There are a lot of similarities between greendreams and R'hllor's red priests flame visions. Who is the source/provider of these visions?
Dance - Bran 3
The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done."
"He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie."
"He's being stupid," Meera said. "I'd hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow … now I wonder why we ever came."
For me, Bran thought. "His greendreams," he said.
"His greendreams." Meera's voice was bitter.
The gods gave me only greendreams. My task was to get you here. My part in this is done."
"He wants to go home," Meera told Bran. "He will not even try and fight his fate. He says the greendreams do not lie."
"He's being stupid," Meera said. "I'd hoped that when we found your three-eyed crow … now I wonder why we ever came."
For me, Bran thought. "His greendreams," he said.
"His greendreams." Meera's voice was bitter.
The greendream compelled Jojen to act, come to Winterfell and take Bran north beyond the Wall. He knows his fate and is resigned to it. Meera is bitter, she is aware of the fatality attached to this dream.
It was a mission, they both knew it.
4. Overall summary
Who are the green men?
They where chosen by both First Men and children to protect the Isle of Faces where the weirwood trees grow with their bleeding faces so that the gods can be witness to the Pact.
The crannogmen have been close to the children since before that time, sharing old gods and magic and living with them in the crannogs of the Neck.
The crannogmen are secretive and keep to themselves. Visitors are not welcome on the Isle of Faces and either winds rising on the Gods Eye or flocks of ravens will keep keep them away.
They have poisonous weapons with which they guard their wetlands; they make for a highly protective force on such an isolated island as the Isle of Faces.
In the tales, green men have antlers and in reality the small crannogmen carry three-pronged frog spears sticking over their heads.
There were Marsh Kings in the Neck and there is a legendary Green King of the Gods Eye.
Chosen crannogmen have prophetic green dreams that come true. The green dreamers are different in crannog society: no title, no arms, green from head to toe (unlike both the little crannogman and Meera, Jojen did not dress in bronze scales, nor bore arms).
The crannogmen do not keep ravens, so green dreams are a convenient way for a greenseer to send someone on a mission; this allows the wise greenseers to keep up the numbers of guardians on the Isle of Faces across thousands of years.
The one and only character in our story who has gone and lived on the Isle of Faces is a crannogman.
Having said all that, I am pretty convinced that the green men are the green dreamers of the crannogmen [ETA] and the crannogmen hunters whom they lead there. Their mission is to protect the Isle of Faces so the greenseers and lingerers can witness the Pact.
But we need to taste this frogeater story just a little more.
I need to come back to this sentence from the WIF:
'some say they are small in stature because they intermarried with the children of the forest'
and this one from Jojen (Storm Bran 1):
'We remember the First Men in the Neck, and the children of the forest who were their friends'
This implies that the crannogmen are not First Men. However these First Men were friends of the children.
I have noted the physical similarities between children and crannogmen and there are mental similarities as well: greendreams, spell weaving, tree talking.
[ETA] Jojen, 'the little grand father' seems to be doomed to a short life, just like the 'chosen ones' of the children.
So it is quite likely that the tales are true, that crannogmen descend from the First Men and the children from a time when they both lived in friendly terms in the Neck.
I know this is a leap of faith, but Martin does not usually waste his words.
Jojen adds 'but so much is forgotten, and so much we never knew'.
Is he saying that the origin of their race is forgotten? I think so.
As it appears that the crannogmen descend from both the First Men and the children, it is another excellent reasons why they would have been chosen by the wise men of both races to guard the Isle of Faces.
We already know that Starks have crannog royalty blood by marriage; we now know that crannogs have children blood. It is time to recall this line (Dance Bran 3):
"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden.
Bran may have inherited blood from the children. One in a million.
Let's have a short break.
Interlude – the elk
Old Nan told us just once that green men ride on elks. Jojen, who would have been a green man had he not been given a different mission, did ride an elk. Click.
Grigg and Addam.
A young wildling who wanted to visit the green men, whose name means good shepherd and is associated with a meteor dropping comet, shares similarities with Bran.
A loyal bastard, named after the first man, who rides a dragon named after salt and smoke, who gave his life to save his men and wanted to take counsel from the green men, shares similarities with Jon.
These characters echo the Long Night and the prophecy of the rebirth of Azor Ahai (with a dragon thrown in for good measure).
It is hard to be more central to the story!
Is this not telling us that Jon Snow will give his life to remain loyal to his men, the realm of men? If it is, this story has come to pass. Will it come again?
Is this not telling us that Bran, after learning the secrets of the old gods, the truths of the First men, the truth that lie beneath the world, will be the shepherd to lead men through the coming Long Night?
The suggestion box is open!
5. Postscript – the Gods Eye
I have researched the story of the Gods-Eye as well but I feel this post is long enough. So I will just write my summary.
The Gods Eye is a huge, placid, calm, gentle lake, with good fish within. It was calling to Arya as she looked at it just before she was about to meet the worst of humanity as she fled the Lannisters.
Was it also calling to Lyanna?
The Targaryens fought five major battles beneath, at or above the Gods Eye; three dragons were killed in these battles. In contrast, Brynden Rivers, the last greenseer, was able to stop the second Blackfyre rebellion at the Gods Eye.
During the war of the Five Kings, Tywin Lannister wanted and got fire all around the Gods Eye. At the same time, Nymeria's wolf pack became the boldest in local memory.
Harren the Black, built Harrenhal from the plundering of the locals, the death of thousands of chained captives and the cutting of 3,000 years old weirwoods. His castle was completed the day Aegon the Conqueror arrived in the 7 kingdoms. He was eventually incinerated by Aegon's dragon, Balerion the Black Dread, on the pyre of his castle.
In just these few lines you can get a feeling for the horrors that have taken place at the Gods Eye since Harren the Black started building his castle, in plain sight of the Isle of Faces where the old gods bear witness under the protection of the green men.
I was just about to forget to mention that Arya actually did answer the call of the Gods Eye (Feast Arya 1):
“... The rest of the gods dwell together on an isle in the center of the city. That is where you will find the . . . the Many-Faced God."
The sooner she rejoins Nymeria, the better.