Post by markg171 on Nov 13, 2016 0:12:38 GMT
Robert wanted smiles and cheers, always, so he went where he found them, to his friends and his whores. Robert wanted to be loved.
Introduction
The purpose of this essay will to examine the often beloved, and often hated, but definitely broken man that is Robert Baratheon from AGOT. This will be done by examining these key elements
- Character descriptions of Robert
- Robert’s wife Cersei
- Robert’s lost betrothed Lyanna Stark
- Robert’s love for Lyanna
- The Hand’s Tourney and the melee
- Robert’s bastards
- Lyanna’s “Love is sweet” quote
- Robert’s hatred of Rhaegar
Following all of this will be a brief conclusion and some final thoughts.
The Drinking, Fucking, Fighting King
"Rocks and trees and rivers, that's what your realm is made of," the Hound was saying. "Do the rocks need defending? Robert wouldn't have thought so. If he couldn't fuck it, fight it, or drink it, it bored him, and so would you . . . you brave companions."
Sandor Clegane states the above about Robert, that if he couldn’t fuck something, fight something, or drink something, then it bored him. It’s a sentiment that’s echoed in various ways many times throughout the novels by various characters that those were Robert’s pleasures and what interested him most.
Here’s Ned for example
Robert Baratheon had always been a man of huge appetites, a man who knew how to take his pleasures.
And here’s Stannis
"Robert . . ." His teeth ground side to side. "He is in my dreams as well. Laughing. Drinking. Boasting. Those were the things he was best at. Those, and fighting. I never bested him at anything.
"
"
Hell, Robert himself claims these same delights many times
"Good man!" The king clapped him on the shoulder. "I've half a mind to leave them all behind and just keep going."
A smile touched Ned's lips. "I do believe you mean it."
"I do, I do," the king said. "What do you say, Ned? Just you and me, two vagabond knights on the kingsroad, our swords at our sides and the gods know what in front of us, and maybe a farmer's daughter or a tavern wench to warm our beds tonight."
A smile touched Ned's lips. "I do believe you mean it."
"I do, I do," the king said. "What do you say, Ned? Just you and me, two vagabond knights on the kingsroad, our swords at our sides and the gods know what in front of us, and maybe a farmer's daughter or a tavern wench to warm our beds tonight."
The fact of the matter is is that Robert DOES like fighting, fucking, drinking, etc. Characters are not wrong when they say those things about Robert. The problem however is that that’s not what’s missing in his life. In the 15 years since Robert took the throne, Robert has had
- Plenty of whores, farmer’s daughters, tavern wenches, noble ladies, and of course the supposedly most beautiful woman in the realm
- A war against the Greyjoys, as well as he was in the midst of planning for a war against the Targaryens, and he saw a war brewing between the Starks and Lannisters
- Enough food and drink to have gained 112lbs over 9 years, and turn a once legendarily muscled body into a fat wreck
Robert is not missing any of the “pleasures” of his life. He’s fucked his way across the kingdom, ate peaches from Dorne and drank dark ale from the north, fought a war and is in the midst of two new ones. None of the characteristics characters repeatedly label Robert with are missing from his life. Yet he’s still descended into a wreck. If Robert has everything in his life that he supposedly wants according to everybody, then why is he so unhappy?
Well let’s look at what he also has in his life: Cersei Lannister
The Storm King and His Lady
Cersei … I have Jon Arryn to thank for her. I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir. Cersei Lannister would be a good match, he told me, she would bind Lord Tywin to me should Viserys Targaryen ever try to win back his father's throne," The king shook his head. "I loved that old man, I swear it, but now I think he was a bigger fool than Moon Boy. Oh, Cersei is lovely to look at, truly, but cold … the way she guards her cunt, you'd think she had all the gold of Casterly Rock between her legs.
It’s no secret at all that Robert and Cersei do not get along, and have a terrible marriage. But I think a lot of people miss just a big reason as to why they have such a bad marriage. There’s the obvious cheating, the fact that Cersei refused to let Robert raise either his “kids” or his bastards, etc., but just fundamentally speaking, they really have nothing in common.
The Estermonts were her good-kin through Robert, whose father had taken one of them to wife in what must have been a fit of lust or madness. By the time Cersei wed the king, Robert's lady mother was long dead, though both of her brothers had turned up for the wedding and stayed for half a year. Robert had later insisted on returning the courtesy with a visit to Estermont, a mountainous little island off Cape Wrath. The dank and dismal fortnight Cersei spent at Greenstone, the seat of House Estermont, was the longest of her young life. Jaime dubbed the castle "Greenshit" at first sight, and soon had Cersei doing it too. Elsewise she passed her days watching her royal husband hawk, hunt, and drink with his uncles, and bludgeon various male cousins senseless in Greenshit's yard.
From the above, Cersei herself tells us that the fortnight she spent with Robert at Greenstone hawking, hunting, drinking, and fighting was the longest two weeks of her life. She was absolutely bored out of her mind while Robert was doing all the things he liked to do.
And this isn’t just a one off affair. It is repeatedly stated that Cersei never enjoyed the same things Robert did. One of our earliest contrasts between the two of them is that Robert rode to Winterfell, while Cersei was carried in a wheelhouse
Yet the huge man at the head of the column, flanked by two knights in the snow-white cloaks of the Kingsguard, seemed almost a stranger to Ned … until he vaulted off the back of his warhorse with a familiar roar, and crushed him in a bone-crunching hug. "Ned! Ah, but it is good to see that frozen face of yours." The king looked him over top to bottom, and laughed. "You have not changed at all."
By then the others were dismounting as well, and grooms were coming forward for their mounts. Robert's queen, Cersei Lannister, entered on foot with her younger children. The wheelhouse in which they had ridden, a huge double-decked carriage of oiled oak and gilded metal pulled by forty heavy draft horses, was too wide to pass through the castle gate. Ned knelt in the snow to kiss the queen's ring, while Robert embraced Catelyn like a long-lost sister. Then the children had been brought forward, introduced, and approved of by both sides.
In fact, Robert will complain about this very damn thing.
Dawn broke as they crested a low ridge, and finally the king pulled up. By then they were miles south of the main party. Robert was flushed and exhilarated as Ned reined up beside him. "Gods," he swore, laughing, "it feels good to get out and ride the way a man was meant to ride! I swear, Ned, this creeping along is enough to drive a man mad." He had never been a patient man, Robert Baratheon. "That damnable wheelhouse, the way it creaks and groans, climbing every bump in the road as if it were a mountain … I promise you, if that wretched thing breaks another axle, I'm going to burn it, and Cersei can walk!"
Once he’s free to go on a ride with Ned he lets loose the reigns on his horse and rides like the wind for hours, and then complains that Cersei’s wheelhouse is too slow and that he’d like to get rid of it. If Robert had his way his wife would be riding along beside him, not stuck in some “damnable wheelhouse”. He wants a wife who rides, not a wife who’s afraid to get a little sweaty and dirty. Which even in that “damnable wheelhouse”, free from the rigors of a ride, Cersei STILL complains she needs to freshen up as soon as she gets to Winterfell.
The queen had begun to protest. They had been riding since dawn, everyone was tired and cold, surely they should refresh themselves first.
Cersei hasn’t done anything at all that day besides likely knit and gossip in her wheelhouse, yet she still wants a break. Robert has been riding all day and he is still fresh and ready for more, even after his physical decline. This is what Robert was meant for, but it’s all too much for a woman like Cersei. A ride gets Robert’s blood pumping, but a ride just makes Cersei’s hair need to be redone. This isn’t what either wants, Cersei’s too slow for Robert, and Robert’s too fast for Cersei.
And we see it also in Robert’s love for hunting… a past time that again, Cersei doesn’t share. Robert was by no means a perfect husband, but Cersei tells us herself that Robert spent YEARS inviting her to come hunting with him every time he went out
In the early years of their marriage, Robert was forever imploring her to hunt with him, but Cersei had always begged off. His hunting trips allowed her time with Jaime.
Go and hunt, Cersei had urged Robert, half a hundred times. My brother keeps me well protected.
He was a neglectful husband in many ways, but he tried to get his wife to tag along and share his interests, to broker some common ground. She always said no so that she could instead fuck Jaime. Now obviously Robert never knew about Cersei fucking Jaime, but to someone who keeps inviting someone to come out with them and they keep saying no and to go by themselves, then that’s obviously never going to broker any love. Robert wanted Cersei to come hunting with him, but Cersei simply wanted Robert gone. She refused to hunt with him so that she could instead spent her time on her own interests.
Cersei at her core is simply too prim and proper for Robert. She’s a lady. Oh she’s a total bitch too which might seem contradictory, but she’s a lady bitch. And that bitch doesn’t ride, hunt, fight, drink, or do anything that Robert likes, and more over doesn’t WANT to do anything Robert likes. Which is why Robert doesn’t want a bitch. Robert wants a she-wolf.
The She-Wolf
Both horses were lathered and flagging by the time he came up beside her, reached over, and grabbed her bridle. Arya was breathing hard herself then. She knew the fight was done. "You ride like a northman, milady," Harwin said when he'd drawn them to a halt. "Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna. But my father was master of horse, remember."
Above all else, there’s really no denying that Robert and Lyanna shared the same interests and past times.
Lyanna, like Robert, loved to ride
"For the moment. I had another, once. Domeric. A quiet boy, but most accomplished. He served four years as Lady Dustin's page, and three in the Vale as a squire to Lord Redfort. He played the high harp, read histories, and rode like the wind. Horses … the boy was mad for horses, Lady Dustin will tell you. Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself. Redfort said he showed great promise in the lists. A great jouster must be a great horseman first."
Lyanna, like Robert, liked to fight
Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout. "You be quiet, stupid," the girl said, tossing her own branch aside. "It's just water. Do you want Old Nan to hear and run tell Father?" She knelt and pulled her brother from the pool, but before she got him out again, the two of them were gone.
And hell, she wasn’t even above having a few drinks
The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head.
All we’re seemingly missing is the hunting/hawking aspect, but for a girl who loved riding, fighting, and some of the more tomboy like things, then I don’t think it’s at all a stretch to say that she probably enjoyed that as well.
From a pure interest and past time oriented perspective, Lyanna and Robert shared almost everything. Had Robert ever wanted to go riding, Lyanna would’ve already had her horse saddled before he could even finish asking her. There would never have been any need to beg Lyanna to come do something he wanted to do, she’d probably have already asked him to do it.
Which is why Robert fell for her.
Robert loved Lyanna
"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature."
Starting a section of an essay off with a quote where Lyanna questions Robert’s love might seem off to some, but it’s the bolded parts that are the truly important ones, not Lyanna’s words. From the above we know one clear thing that is a true game changer on the Lyanna/Robert relationship: that they were together for a really long time.
When you examine the bolded parts, we learn a few things
- Lyanna has just been betrothed to Robert that very night
- Robert has just fathered Mya Stone, and she’s a newborn babe
Now these are two incredibly important things that must be considered whenever examining whether or not Robert ever loved Lyanna, because many fans seem to think that they weren’t together long and Lyanna eloped once she realized she didn’t want to marry Robert. That simply can’t be the case given the above information.
For one, we know that on the very night she was betrothed to marry him, she questioned his fidelity
"Robert will never keep to one bed"
So if Lyanna never wanted to marry him, then it was there from the start. But that start is the important part because that start was years before she ever disappeared. Again, Mya is a newborn babe when they are betrothed to another. That places Robert and Lyanna’s betrothal in either 279 or 280 as Ned says that Mya is 17 or 18 in 298, and that Robert was younger than that when he fathered her.
Ned remembered Robert's first child as well, a daughter born in the Vale when Robert was scarcely more than a boy himself. A sweet little girl; the young lord of Storm's End had doted on her. He used to make daily visits to play with the babe, long after he had lost interest in the mother. Ned was often dragged along for company, whether he willed it or not. The girl would be seventeen or eighteen now, he realized; older than Robert had been when he fathered her. A strange thought.
I’ll differ to the ASOIAF wiki to explain all that, but essentially you get this:
Being 17 or 18 years old in 298 AC would give Mya the following options:
• 16 turning 17 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 281 AC
• 17 turning 18 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 280 AC
• 18 turning 19 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 279 AC
Robert Baratheon was born in 262 AC.[56] When Eddard Stark remembers Mya's age to be either "17 or 18", he recalls that Robert was younger when fathering her.[13] While Eddard is unsure about which age is correct for Mya, he is certain that Robert was younger than she is now, indicating that Robert was younger than 17 when conceiving Mya. Thus, Mya's conception cannot have occurred later than 279 AC, with Robert being 16 to-be-turning 17 later that year.
The three possible birth years for Mya would then give the following options:
• If Mya was born in 279 AC, she was conceived in either 278 AC or 279 AC
• If Mya was born in 280 AC, she was conceived in either 279 AC or 280 AC
• If Mya was born in 281 AC, she was conceived in either 280 AC or 281 AC
Since Mya cannot have been conceived in 280 AC and 281 AC, she cannot have been born in 281 AC, leaving only 279 AC and 280 AC as her possible years of birth. No further specifications can be given.
• 16 turning 17 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 281 AC
• 17 turning 18 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 280 AC
• 18 turning 19 in 298 AC, placing her birth in 279 AC
Robert Baratheon was born in 262 AC.[56] When Eddard Stark remembers Mya's age to be either "17 or 18", he recalls that Robert was younger when fathering her.[13] While Eddard is unsure about which age is correct for Mya, he is certain that Robert was younger than she is now, indicating that Robert was younger than 17 when conceiving Mya. Thus, Mya's conception cannot have occurred later than 279 AC, with Robert being 16 to-be-turning 17 later that year.
The three possible birth years for Mya would then give the following options:
• If Mya was born in 279 AC, she was conceived in either 278 AC or 279 AC
• If Mya was born in 280 AC, she was conceived in either 279 AC or 280 AC
• If Mya was born in 281 AC, she was conceived in either 280 AC or 281 AC
Since Mya cannot have been conceived in 280 AC and 281 AC, she cannot have been born in 281 AC, leaving only 279 AC and 280 AC as her possible years of birth. No further specifications can be given.
awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Years_after_Aegon%27s_Conquest/Calculations_Ages_(Continued2)#Mya_Stone
So Mya had to have either been born in 279 or 280, and thus so did Robert’s betrothal to Lyanna if she’s some newborn.
Now we’re not exactly sure of when Lyanna went missing, but the one definite hint we get is that it occurred at least after 282 as Rhaegar leaves Dragonstone at the beginning of 282 on a trip that “ultimately” leads to him kidnapping Lyanna
As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.
All of this is a long way of saying that Robert and Lyanna were betrothed to one another for at least 2-3 years. Something that’s further supported by TWOIAF as Lyanna is noted to have long been betrothed to Robert when Rhaegar crowns her at Harrenhal
Yet if this were true, why did Lady Lyanna's brothers seem so distraught at the honor the prince had bestowed upon her? Brandon Stark, the heir to Winterfell, had to be restrained from confronting Rhaegar at what he took as a slight upon his sister's honor, for Lyanna Stark had long been betrothed to Robert Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End. Eddard Stark, Brandon's younger brother and a close friend to Lord Robert, was calmer but no more pleased. As for Robert Baratheon himself, some say he laughed at the prince's gesture, claiming that Rhaegar had done no more than pay Lyanna her due...but those who knew him better say the young lord brooded on the insult, and that his heart hardened toward the Prince of Dragonstone from that day forth.
This wasn’t some short relationship, they were together for years. Now of course betrothals and courtships were much different in that time frame than they were today, so it’s not like Robert and Lyanna saw each other every day or something, but they still should’ve interacted many times over those years, especially considering how often Robert was with Ned, her brother. Sansa has “dates” with Joffrey, Brandon had “dates” with Catelyn, Margaery has “dates” with Tommen, etc. When we’ve got these long betrothals, people don’t just not see their intended except in the most extreme of circumstances, like Robb and Arya never meeting their Frey spouses as they’re off at war or missing. Robert and Lyanna would’ve interacted with one another throughout their betrothal, and there’s plenty of time for a love to blossom on Robert’s end. Hell, at minimum we know that they AT LEAST spent 8 days together at Harrenhal given that there’s an opening ceremonies day where Jaime was knighted, and 7 days of competition.
For seven days the finest knights and noblest lords of the Seven Kingdoms contended with lance
and sword in the fields beneath the towering walls of Harrenhal.
and sword in the fields beneath the towering walls of Harrenhal.
She might still have eloped, but if so she did it after 3 years of being betrothed to Robert, and after they definitely did and should have spent time together. But well, no offence to Lyanna, but we’re talking about Robert’s feelings here, not hers. And Robert’s feelings are enormously evident.
No sooner had those formalities of greeting been completed than the king had said to his host, "Take me down to your crypt, Eddard. I would pay my respects."
Ned loved him for that, for remembering her still after all these years. He called for a lantern. No other words were needed. The queen had begun to protest. They had been riding since dawn, everyone was tired and cold, surely they should refresh themselves first. The dead would wait. She had said no more than that; Robert had looked at her, and her twin brother Jaime had taken her quietly by the arm, and she had said no more.
Ned loved him for that, for remembering her still after all these years. He called for a lantern. No other words were needed. The queen had begun to protest. They had been riding since dawn, everyone was tired and cold, surely they should refresh themselves first. The dead would wait. She had said no more than that; Robert had looked at her, and her twin brother Jaime had taken her quietly by the arm, and she had said no more.
Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride.
"She was more beautiful than that," the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna's face, as if he could will her back to life. Finally he rose, made awkward by his weight. "Ah, damn it, Ned, did you have to bury her in a place like this?" His voice was hoarse with remembered grief. "She deserved more than darkness …"
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
"She was more beautiful than that," the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna's face, as if he could will her back to life. Finally he rose, made awkward by his weight. "Ah, damn it, Ned, did you have to bury her in a place like this?" His voice was hoarse with remembered grief. "She deserved more than darkness …"
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
The king touched her cheek, his fingers brushing across the rough stone as gently as if it were living flesh. "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her."
"He betrayed one already, or have you forgotten?" the woman said. "Oh, I don't deny he's loyal to Robert, that's obvious. What happens when Robert dies and Joff takes the throne? And the sooner that comes to pass, the safer we'll all be. My husband grows more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He's still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?"
Ned did not feign surprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. He remembered the angry words they had exchanged when Tywin Lannister had presented Robert with the corpses of Rhaegar's wife and children as a token of fealty. Ned had named that murder; Robert called it war. When he had protested that the young prince and princess were no more than babes, his new-made king had replied, "I see no babes. Only dragonspawn." Not even Jon Arryn had been able to calm that storm. Eddard Stark had ridden out that very day in a cold rage, to fight the last battles of the war alone in the south. It had taken another death to reconcile them; Lyanna's death, and the grief they had shared over her passing.
"You avenged Lyanna at the Trident," Ned said, halting beside the king. Promise me, Ned, she had whispered.
"That did not bring her back." Robert looked away, off into the grey distance. "The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown … it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe … and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."
"That did not bring her back." Robert looked away, off into the grey distance. "The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown … it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe … and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."
"Drink and stay quiet, the king is talking. I swear to you, I was never so alive as when I was winning this throne, or so dead as now that I've won it. And Cersei … I have Jon Arryn to thank for her. I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir. Cersei Lannister would be a good match, he told me, she would bind Lord Tywin to me should Viserys Targaryen ever try to win back his father's throne," The king shook his head. "I loved that old man, I swear it, but now I think he was a bigger fool than Moon Boy. Oh, Cersei is lovely to look at, truly, but cold … the way she guards her cunt, you'd think she had all the gold of Casterly Rock between her legs. Here, give me that beer if you won't drink it." He took the horn, upended it, belched, wiped his mouth. "I am sorry for your girl, Ned. Truly. About the wolf, I mean. My son was lying, I'd stake my soul on it. My son … you love your children, don't you?"
Robert reached for the flagon and refilled his cup. "You see what she does to me, Ned." The king seated himself, cradling his wine cup. "My loving wife. The mother of my children." The rage was gone from him now; in his eyes Ned saw something sad and scared. "I should not have hit her. That was not … that was not kingly." He stared down at his hands, as if he did not quite know what they were. "I was always strong … no one could stand before me, no one. How do you fight someone if you can't hit them?" Confused, the king shook his head. "Rhaegar … Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned, I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won. He has Lyanna now, and I have her." The king drained his cup.
"I remember Robert as he was the day he took the throne, every inch a king," he said quietly. "A thousand other women might have loved him with all their hearts. What did he do to make you hate him so?"
Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. "The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister's name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna."
Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep. "I do not know which of you I pity most."
Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. "The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister's name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna."
Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep. "I do not know which of you I pity most."
Hurriedly Grand Maester Pycelle mixed him another draught of the milk of the poppy. This time the king drank deeply. His black beard was beaded with thick white droplets when he threw the empty cup aside. "Will I dream?"
Ned gave him his answer. "You will, my lord."
"Good," he said, smiling. "I will give Lyanna your love, Ned. Take care of my children for me."
Ned gave him his answer. "You will, my lord."
"Good," he said, smiling. "I will give Lyanna your love, Ned. Take care of my children for me."
His feelings are everywhere in AGOT. He does and says things that no one would simply ever do if he was just fondly remembering a crush from 15 years ago. He loved that she-wolf, and her death is the only thing that truly explains why Robert is so broken.
As we’ve already covered, people think that Robert loved fighting, fucking, and drinking, among other lecherous behaviours. But as we also covered, he also still HAS all those things. None of that is missing in his life, he can fuck, fight, and drink whenever he wants. The only thing actually missing is Lyanna. And if we go to this quote here
I swear to you, I was never so alive as when I was winning this throne, or so dead as now that I've won it
That perfectly shows it. Robert had his whores, his fights, and his drinks both before and after the war. The only thing that he had before the war, that he was in part fighting the war for itself, that he doesn’t have now is Lyanna. She’s why he’s dead inside.
Some will also argue that the tediousness of ruling also plays a role in it as Robert finds it all so boring, but keep in mind that Robert had actually also still been Lord of Storm’s End for years before he was ever king. He spent a lot of time in the Vale yes, but per GRRM he split his time at Storm’s End too
How did Ned manage to become such a paragon Northener and a close friend of Lyanna's if he spent his time in the Vale from age 8 to 18? Or did he return home at some point(when?) and was just visiting Jon Arryn prior to and after the tourney at Harrenhal?
He was fostered, not exiled. Yes, certainly he returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.
He was fostered, not exiled. Yes, certainly he returned home. Less frequently the first few years, when he would have been performing the duties of a page and then a squire, more often and for longer periods later. During his "squire" years (he wasn't a squire in the strict sense, since he wasn't training for knighthood, but he was acting as one), he would also have accompanied Jon Arryn on many travels out of the Vale. And once he reached the age of sixteen he was a man grown, free to come to go as he liked... which would have included both time at home and in the Vale, since Jon Arryn had become a second father. The same was true of Robert, who divided his time between Storm's End and the Vale after reaching manhood, not to mention dropping in on tourneys and whatever choice fights he could find.
www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Some_Questions
Robert already was ruling before he was ever king, he’d been doing it for years. I’ve no doubt he probably left a lot of things to his maester, his castellan, and Stannis, but that’s no different than his time as king where he left it to his small council. Being king probably didn’t help anything, but he still held the same basic responsibilities and tedious duties he had before, just on a larger scale (though also with more men to do that work too however).
No, the only massive ground breaking change in his life, is the loss of Lyanna. He loved her, and he’s been stumbling from one pleasure to the next trying to feel anything at all.
You wanna know the horrible truth? I can’t even remember what she looked like. I only know she was the one thing I ever wanted. Someone took her away from me, and Seven Kingdoms couldn’t fill the hole she’d left behind. (The Wolf and the Lion – GOT, Episode 5)
The Great Melee and the Shameful Wife
In any discussion of Robert and Lyanna, invariably, we need to come to this scene in AGOT
"The talk is you and the queen had angry words last night."
The mirth curdled on Robert's face. "The woman tried to forbid me to fight in the melee. She's sulking in the castle now, damn her. Your sister would never have shamed me like that."
"You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert," Ned told him. "You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee."
The mirth curdled on Robert's face. "The woman tried to forbid me to fight in the melee. She's sulking in the castle now, damn her. Your sister would never have shamed me like that."
"You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert," Ned told him. "You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee."
Here Ned says that Robert only ever saw Lyanna’s beauty, and not her iron. Many fans take this scene to mean that Robert never really knew Lyanna as a person, and simply saw she was pretty, and thus by extension could never have really loved her. Now I have a lot of problems with that interpretation for a lot of reasons.
First and foremost, it requires one to literally ignore that Ned stated that Robert loved Lyanna even more so than he himself did.
Lyanna had only been sixteen, a child-woman of surpassing loveliness. Ned had loved her with all his heart. Robert had loved her even more. She was to have been his bride.
To at all believe that Robert only ever saw her beauty and therefore didn’t “really” love her, because of something Ned says, requires one to ignore the very fact that Ned does indeed say that Robert loved her enormously before that. You’re trying to retcon something that happens in the same book.
Secondly, I also question that interpretation precisely because of something already discussed in this essay: Robert’s marriage to Cersei. Robert is married to the most beautiful woman in Westoros, who characters have said was more beautiful than Lyanna. He still hates her. He even outright says that while she’s pretty to look at, the problem is is that she’s so cold. He hates Cersei’s personality. Robert does like more than just a pretty face in his women. He wouldn’t have simply fallen for Lyanna because of her looks, even if we know he did appreciate them (as he complains that the mason failed to capture how beautiful she truly was – at least to him as nobody else has said the statue doesn’t look like her). Maybe he never saw her iron will (perhaps because she never showed it to him?), but he definitely saw more than simply a pretty girl.
But also, the single biggest problem with this scene, and any reliance on its veracity, is that Ned doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about. And despite the books going over this scene from multiple angles and characters, that just flies over many people’s heads.
First and foremost, Ned was not present for what happened between Robert and Cersei. That was Sansa who was our POV
King Robert had grown louder with each course. From time to time Sansa could hear him laughing or roaring a command over the music and the clangor of plates and cutlery, but they were too far away for her to make out his words.
Now everybody heard him. "No," he thundered in a voice that drowned out all other speech. Sansa was shocked to see the king on his feet, red of face, reeling. He had a goblet of wine in one hand, and he was drunk as a man could be. "You do not tell me what to do, woman," he screamed at Queen Cersei. "I am king here, do you understand? I rule here, and if I say that I will fight tomorrow, I will fight!"
Now everybody heard him. "No," he thundered in a voice that drowned out all other speech. Sansa was shocked to see the king on his feet, red of face, reeling. He had a goblet of wine in one hand, and he was drunk as a man could be. "You do not tell me what to do, woman," he screamed at Queen Cersei. "I am king here, do you understand? I rule here, and if I say that I will fight tomorrow, I will fight!"
And if you’ll note here, Sansa herself doesn’t actually hear what Cersei said to Robert to make him so angry, she only hears Robert’s response. We have no idea what actually happened at this point, beyond that it has to do with the melee and that Robert is furious about it. We didn’t witness anything other than that, but more importantly, Ned didn’t witness ANY of this. Go back to the quote, and this is what Ned says
"The talk is you and the queen had angry words last night."
Ned has only heard stories of what happened, he didn’t at all witness the fight. Ned is entirely relying upon those stories, and what Robert himself tells him, to colour his opinion on what happened. Ned doesn’t actually know enough information to accurately respond to what Robert tells him about it, which is this
The mirth curdled on Robert's face. "The woman tried to forbid me to fight in the melee. She's sulking in the castle now, damn her. Your sister would never have shamed me like that."
Ned never witnessed the fight, and has zero real idea about the context of the fight until this moment. All he knows is that Cersei didn’t want Robert fighting in the melee. Which is incredibly important for two reasons, which unfortunately will only become evident AFTER Varys finally informs both us the reader, and Ned the POV, of what truly happened. Which was the following
"The Lannisters," Ned said. "The queen … no, I will not believe that, not even of Cersei. She asked him not to fight!"
"She forbade him to fight, in front of his brother, his knights, and half the court. Tell me truly, do you know any surer way to force King Robert into the melee? I ask you."
"She forbade him to fight, in front of his brother, his knights, and half the court. Tell me truly, do you know any surer way to force King Robert into the melee? I ask you."
We finally learn what happened, and what Cersei actually said. She forbade Robert from entering the melee, and not asked like Ned thinks happened, and she did so in front of Renly, all his knights, and half the court. That is what Robert was complaining to Ned about. I’ve no doubt he didn’t like that she didn’t want him fighting, but look back on what he complained about and said that Lyanna wouldn’t have done
Your sister would never have shamed me like that.
Robert complains about the shame Cersei reaped upon him. Which was the fact that she told him no in front of everybody who shouldn’t have been privy to not only a private dispute, but also a dispute that threatened Robert’s very own manliness and skill as a warrior, in front of all the men who owe fealty to him. Cersei undoubtedly shamed Robert with her actions, but more importantly, Ned feels terrible when he finally realizes what happened
Ned had a sick feeling in his gut. The eunuch had hit upon a truth; tell Robert Baratheon he could not, should not, or must not do a thing, and it was as good as done. "Even if he'd fought, who would have dared to strike the king?"
Ned realizes that Cersei DID shame Robert, and that she specifically did so to force him into the melee to kill him.
So not only did Ned really have no idea what he was talking about when he said that Robert didn’t know Lyanna, which in turn IMO makes it an unreliable statement in the first place, he actually was wrong too. While Robert doesn’t know why Cersei did what she did beyond that she’s a bitch to him like usual instead of that she was attempting to kill him, he’s still perfectly correct that Lyanna wouldn’t have shamed him like Cersei. Because Lyanna wouldn’t have been trying to assassinate him. She might have told him he shouldn’t compete like Ned says, but she would never have told him that in front of all his bannermen as that would’ve simply made him want to do it even more. She’d have told him in their tent or in private if she at all didn’t think he should be competing (of course in an alternate timeline we have no way of knowing if he also gets fat, and so he could’ve been perfectly capable of fighting then)
The scene is a perfect example of how GRRM uses the unreliable narrator in his series by having Eddard talk about something he only knew about 2nd hand. He’s horrified when he learns what really went down. Put Eddard in that conversation again with Robert having witnessed the fight and having been informed by Varys what it was about and he’ll say something different. Probably still tell Robert that Lyanna wouldn’t have wanted him to compete, as realistically she shouldn’t, but he’d have at least understand Robert’s complaint and known what he meant by Cersei shamed him and that Lyanna wouldn’t have.
Far be it a scene that shows that Robert doesn’t know Lyanna, he actually knew her quite well as no, she wouldn’t have shamed him. Robert was right, not Eddard.
The Storm King’s Brood
"Will the king and I have children?" she asked.
"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."
"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."
Mya Stone is Robert’s firstborn daughter, and she happens to be born before he’s ever betrothed to Lyanna, as has been already discussed. She is from before Robert was with Lyanna.
The next eldest bastard is Bella. I’m going to save Bella for later, but suffice it to say for now that I do not think that she’s Robert’s daughter. I will explain my reasoning in a bit, but bare with me as I go over his known bastards. Assume if you will however that she is Robert’s bastard, then given that she claims to have been sired during the Battle of the Bells, then she is from after Lyanna, though I suppose you could say that Robert is still technically with Lyanna and could declare her a bastard during their time together.
The next eldest bastard is Gendry. Gendry is 15 in 299 as Arya says that Gendry is 5 years older than her and she is currently 10
Arya had to scamper to keep up. Gendry was five years older and a foot taller than she was, and long of leg as well. For a while he said nothing, just plowed on through the trees with an angry look on his face, making too much noise. But finally he stopped and said, "I think Lommy's going to die."
The next known bastard is Edric Storm, fathered on Delena Florent during Stannis and Selyse’s marriage. Edric is stated to be 12 in the appendix of ASOS, so he can’t have been born any earlier than 287 (as it’s either 299 or 300 in ASOS). That places Edric after Robert was with Lyanna.
The next known bastard is Barra. Barra is obviously born in AGOT as she is a new born baby, which places her birth in 298. That places Barra after Robert was with Lyanna.
Those are all the known bastards, but Littlefinger also mentions that Robert allegedly fathered twins on some servant in Casterly Rock 3 years ago that Cersei killed
Littlefinger shrugged. Rivulets of moisture twisted down the back of his cloak. "Does it matter? If you bed enough women, some will give you presents, and His Grace has never been shy on that count. I know he's acknowledged that boy at Storm's End, the one he fathered the night Lord Stannis wed. He could hardly do otherwise. The mother was a Florent, niece to the Lady Selyse, one of her bedmaids. Renly says that Robert carried the girl upstairs during the feast, and broke in the wedding bed while Stannis and his bride were still dancing. Lord Stannis seemed to think that was a blot on the honor of his wife's House, so when the boy was born, he shipped him off to Renly." He gave Ned a sideways glance. "I've also heard whispers that Robert got a pair of twins on a serving wench at Casterly Rock, three years ago when he went west for Lord Tywin's tourney. Cersei had the babes killed, and sold the mother to a passing slaver. Too much an affront to Lannister pride, that close to home."
Which means they were born in 295. That places those twins after Robert was with Lyanna.
While no, that list doesn’t give us Robert’s 16 bastards (or even Varys’ 8 bastards), there also is a pretty clear pattern here with them. The bastards are from before Robert’s relationship with Lyanna, or after his relationship with Lyanna. The only one exception is Bella, who was conceived during the war. That would still be after Lyanna was taken from him, but it’s also though while she’s still alive and Robert is fighting a war to (at least in part) get Lyanna back. But as I mentioned, I don’t really think that Bella is Robert’s daughter, and there’s plenty of reasons for that.
First and foremost, we don’t actually get any indication of Bella’s age, beyond what she herself tells us. She says she was conceived during the Battle of the Bells
“I’m named Bella,” the girl told Gendry. “For the battle. I bet I could ring your bell, too. You want to?”
But neither Arya or anybody at all ever mentions that she’s either 16 or 17 years old, which is what you’d expect from someone who was fathered in 283. As far as we’re ever told, she herself gives us her age. Which is kind of problematic as she’s a whore, and it’s in the best interest of a whore to lie about her age. She’s obviously not too old as that would’ve been commented on somewhere, but we have no way of knowing that she actually does fit the right age to have been conceived during the Battle of the Bells because nobody actually talks about her age besides herself. Who also can’t even be relied upon to give an accurate age for herself given that her mother seems to be dead if it’s Leslyn who tells her all the stories about herself.
The second problem is that her story of how she was conceived doesn’t even make any sense. Here is that story
One of the girls sat down on the bench beside him. “Who’s a highborn lady? The little skinny one?” She looked at Arya and laughed. “I’m a king’s daughter myself.”
Arya knew she was being mocked. “You are not.”
“Well, I might be.” When the girl shrugged, her gown slipped off one shoulder. “They say King Robert fucked my mother when he hid here, back before the battle. Not that he didn’t have all the other girls too, but Leslyn says he liked my ma the best.”
Arya knew she was being mocked. “You are not.”
“Well, I might be.” When the girl shrugged, her gown slipped off one shoulder. “They say King Robert fucked my mother when he hid here, back before the battle. Not that he didn’t have all the other girls too, but Leslyn says he liked my ma the best.”
Bella claims that Robert his in the Peach before the battle. Now this isn’t in any doubt as both Harwin and Jon Connington say the same thing. However, Bella says while he was hiding there he fucked her mother and all the other whores too. I’m going to have to call bullshit, as we know that not only was Robert wounded
Robert Baratheon had been hiding somewhere in the town, wounded and alone.
And therefore shouldn’t have been in any condition to make his way around a brothel, but more importantly because Jon Connington tells us that the brothel was the last place Robert was hiding in before the battle, after Jon had done a door to door search of the entire town.
And so he swept down on Stoney Sept, closed off the town, and began a search. His knights went house to house, smashed in every door, peered into every cellar. He had even sent men crawling through the sewers, yet somehow Robert still eluded him. The townsfolk were hiding him. They moved him from one secret bolt-hole to the next, always one step ahead of the king's men. The whole town was a nest of traitors. At the end they had the usurper hidden in a brothel. What sort of king was that, who would hide behind the skirts of women? Yet whilst the search dragged on, Eddard Stark and Hoster Tully came down upon the town with a rebel army. Bells and battle followed, and Robert emerged from his brothel with a blade in hand, and almost slew Jon on the steps of the old sept that gave the town its name.
I'd say Jon's version invalidates Bella's story as Jon tells us that Robert was being constantly moved from one location to the next by the townsfolk, who were only one step ahead of Connington's men who were searching the entire town. If Robert was being moved around, and was barely keeping ahead of Jon's men, while Jon's men are systematically eliminating possible places for Robert to be, then there's no possible way that he took the time to fuck every single whore in the building, let alone one as he'd have to be ready to leave at a moment's notice for the next decreasingly small list of hiding spots. Nor would the townsfolk who were helping him move around let him fuck a girl let alone 20 if he needs to be able to leave at a moment's notice as Robert getting caught would mean that they also get caught and are guilty of treason according to Jon and they're not going to risk their own lives like that just so Robert can get some tail.
Not to mention that Harwin says that Robert emerged as soon as the bells began to ring
They battled in the streets and alleys, even on the rooftops, and all the septons rang their bells so the smallfolk would know to lock their doors. Robert came out of hiding to join the fight when the bells began to ring
Which tells us that Robert wasn’t busy making his way through some whores, he was waiting for his moment to come out and join the fight. He wasn’t busy at the time the battle started, when he was supposedly fucking every whore in the brothel.
So I don’t believe Bella’s story as it’s contradicted by our known accounts of the battle.
The other important thing is Bella’s actual description. This is the only description we ever get of her
The girl did have hair like the old king’s, Arya thought; a great thick mop of it, as black as coal. That doesn’t mean anything, though. Gendry has the same kind of hair too. Lots of people have black hair.
Now yes, the whole “Arya doesn’t realize Gendry has the same hair because Gendry is actually Robert’s son” is indeed ironic, and would indeed point to Bella being Robert’s son if she’s got the same hair as Robert and Gendry. The problem is is that people don’t identify Robert’s bastards simply because they have black hair. That’s not how ANY Baratheon is ever identified. Here are the Baratheons described in our story
Mya
When Alayne returned to the winch room, she found Mya Stone waiting impatiently with Lothor Brune and Mord. She must have come up in the bucket to see what was taking us so long. Slim and sinewy, Mya looked as tough as the old riding leathers she wore beneath her silvery ringmail shirt. Her hair was black as a raven's wing, so short and shaggy that Alayne suspected that she cut it with a dagger. Mya's eyes were her best feature, big and blue. She could be pretty, if she would dress up like a girl. Alayne found herself wondering whether Ser Lothor liked her best in her iron and leather, or dreamed of her gowned in lace and silk. Mya liked to say that her father had been a goat and her mother an owl, but Alayne had gotten the true story from Maddy. Yes, she thought, looking at her now, those are his eyes, and she has his hair too, the thick black hair he shared with Renly.
Gendry
The master called over a tall lad about Robb's age, his arms and chest corded with muscle. "This is Lord Stark, the new Hand of the King," he told him as the boy looked at Ned through sullen blue eyes and pushed back sweat-soaked hair with his fingers. Thick hair, shaggy and unkempt and black as ink. The shadow of a new beard darkened his jaw. "This is Gendry. Strong for his age, and he works hard. Show the Hand that helmet you made, lad." Almost shyly, the boy led them to his bench, and a steel helm shaped like a bull's head, with two great curving horns.
Ned touched the boy's head, fingering the thick black hair. "Look at me, Gendry." The apprentice lifted his face. Ned studied the shape of his jaw, the eyes like blue ice. Yes, he thought, I see it. "Go back to your work, lad. I'm sorry to have bothered you." He walked back to the house with the master. "Who paid the boy's apprentice fee?" he asked lightly.
Ned touched the boy's head, fingering the thick black hair. "Look at me, Gendry." The apprentice lifted his face. Ned studied the shape of his jaw, the eyes like blue ice. Yes, he thought, I see it. "Go back to your work, lad. I'm sorry to have bothered you." He walked back to the house with the master. "Who paid the boy's apprentice fee?" he asked lightly.
Barra
The girl had been so young Ned had not dared to ask her age. No doubt she'd been a virgin; the better brothels could always find a virgin, if the purse was fat enough. She had light red hair and a powdering of freckles across the bridge of her nose, and when she slipped free a breast to give her nipple to the babe, he saw that her bosom was freckled as well. "I named her Barra," she said as the child nursed. "She looks so like him, does she not, milord? She has his nose, and his hair …"
"She does." Eddard Stark had touched the baby's fine, dark hair. It flowed through his fingers like black silk. Robert's firstborn had had the same fine hair, he seemed to recall.
"She does." Eddard Stark had touched the baby's fine, dark hair. It flowed through his fingers like black silk. Robert's firstborn had had the same fine hair, he seemed to recall.
Edric
“Good morrow to you, Father,” the boy greeted him. He looks so much like Dale did at his age, Davos thought. His eldest had never dressed so fine as Devan in his squire’s raiment, to be sure, but they shared the same square plain face, the same forthright brown eyes, the same thin brown flyaway hair. Devan’s cheeks and chin were dusted with blond hair, a fuzz that would have shamed a proper peach, though the boy was fiercely proud of his “beard.” just as Dale was proud of his, once. Devan was the oldest of the three children at the table.
Yet Edric Storm was three inches taller and broader in the chest and shoulders. He was his father’s son in that; nor did he ever miss a morning’s work with sword and shield. Those old enough to have known Robert and Renly as children said that the bastard boy had more of their look than Stannis had ever shared; the coal-black hair, the deep blue eyes, the mouth, the jaw, the cheekbones. Only his ears reminded you that his mother had been a Florent.
"You brought my uncle Stannis fish to eat before I was born, when Lord Tyrell had him under siege." The boy drew himself up tall. "I am Edric Storm," he announced. "King Robert's son."
"Of course you are." Davos had known that almost at once. The lad had the prominent ears of a Florent, but the hair, the eyes, the jaw, the cheekbones, those were all Baratheon.
Yet Edric Storm was three inches taller and broader in the chest and shoulders. He was his father’s son in that; nor did he ever miss a morning’s work with sword and shield. Those old enough to have known Robert and Renly as children said that the bastard boy had more of their look than Stannis had ever shared; the coal-black hair, the deep blue eyes, the mouth, the jaw, the cheekbones. Only his ears reminded you that his mother had been a Florent.
"You brought my uncle Stannis fish to eat before I was born, when Lord Tyrell had him under siege." The boy drew himself up tall. "I am Edric Storm," he announced. "King Robert's son."
"Of course you are." Davos had known that almost at once. The lad had the prominent ears of a Florent, but the hair, the eyes, the jaw, the cheekbones, those were all Baratheon.
Renly
His companion was a man near twenty whose armor was steel plate of a deep forest-green. He was the handsomest man Sansa had ever set eyes upon; tall and powerfully made, with jet-black hair that fell to his shoulders and framed a clean-shaven face, and laughing green {blue] eyes to match his armor. Cradled under one arm was an antlered helm, its magnificent rack shimmering in gold.
"Your gods have heard you," Ned replied, cool yet polite. "The prince grows stronger every day." He disentangled himself from the eunuch's grip and crossed the room to where Lord Renly stood by the screen, talking quietly with a short man who could only be Littlefinger. Renly had been a boy of eight when Robert won the throne, but he had grown into a man so like his brother that Ned found it disconcerting. Whenever he saw him, it was as if the years had slipped away and Robert stood before him, fresh from his victory on the Trident.
Stannis Baratheon, Lord of Dragonstone and by the grace of the gods rightful heir to the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros, was broad of shoulder and sinewy of limb, with a tightness to his face and flesh that spoke of leather cured in the sun until it was as tough as steel. Hard was the word men used when they spoke of Stannis, and hard he was. Though he was not yet five-and-thirty, only a fringe of thin black hair remained on his head, circling behind his ears like the shadow of a crown. His brother, the late King Robert, had grown a beard in his final years. Maester Cressen had never seen it, but they said it was a wild thing, thick and fierce. As if in answer, Stannis kept his own whiskers cropped tight and short. They lay like a blue-black shadow across his square jaw and the bony hollows of his cheeks. His eyes were open wounds beneath his heavy brows, a blue as dark as the sea by night. His mouth would have given despair to even the drollest of fools; it was a mouth made for frowns and scowls and sharply worded commands, all thin pale lips and clenched muscles, a mouth that had forgotten how to smile and had never known how to laugh. Sometimes when the world grew very still and silent of a night, Maester Cressen fancied he could hear Lord Stannis grinding his teeth half a castle away.
Robert
Would that Ned had been able to say the same. Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume.
Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height. Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands. Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward, the king had gained at least eight stone. A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.
Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height. Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands. Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward, the king had gained at least eight stone. A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.
He found himself thinking of Robert more and more. He saw the king as he had been in the flower of his youth, tall and handsome, his great antlered helm on his head, his warhammer in hand, sitting his horse like a horned god. He heard his laughter in the dark, saw his eyes, blue and clear as mountain lakes. "Look at us, Ned," Robert said. "Gods, how did we come to this? You here, and me killed by a pig. We won a throne together …"
“It’s me and Patches, Maester.” Guileless blue eyes blinked at him. Hers was not a pretty face, alas. The child had her lord father’s square jut of jaw and her mother’s unfortunate ears, along with a disfigurement all her own, the legacy of the bout of greyscale that had almost claimed her in the crib. Across half one cheek and well down her neck, her flesh was stiff and dead, the skin cracked and flaking, mottled black and grey and stony to the touch. “Pylos said we might see the white raven.”"
ALL of our Baratheons actually look a lot alike. There's distinguishing features that always get passed down in bulk. Tall, blue eyes, muscled, strong jaw, cheekbones, nose, etc., are all marks that can be used to determine if someone is a Baratheon.
Bella has black hair sure, but she doesn’t have blue eyes (the wiki claims that the app says she does, but unless someone’s forked out some $50 in upgrades to the app to actually get that information as it’s not on the free version then I don’t believe it and it’s not in canon anyways), she isn’t tall, she isn’t well muscled, she doesn’t have a Baratheon jaw, she doesn’t have Robert’s nose, she doesn’t look like either Mya or Barra who both look alike despite having different mothers, etc. She basically doesn’t have any of the key Baratheon features. Black of hair isn’t what makes someone a Baratheon.
And her black hair isn’t even the right type of hair as both Barra and Mya, confirmed female Baratheons, had fine black hair according to Ned, while Bella has thick black hair according to Arya. Female Baratheons have fine black hair. Bella doesn’t check off a single trait of actually looking like Robert’s daughter. It might be ironic to have Arya dismiss her because of Gendry who actually is Robert’s son, but Gendry actually does check off all the traits one would expect from Robert’s child.
And if all that isn’t enough to convince someone that Bella isn’t Robert’s daughter, then the final clue is that the appendix never once lists Bella as Robert’s daughter, despite listing all of the other known bastards
—his bastard children:
—MYA STONE, a maid of nineteen, in the service of Lord Nestor Royce, of the Gates of the
Moon,
—GENDRY, an outlaw in the riverlands, ignorant of his heritage,
—EDRIC STORM, his acknowledged bastard son by Lady Delena of House Florent, hiding in Lys,
—{BARRA}, his bastard daughter by a whore of King’s Landing, killed by the command of his
widow
—MYA STONE, a maid of nineteen, in the service of Lord Nestor Royce, of the Gates of the
Moon,
—GENDRY, an outlaw in the riverlands, ignorant of his heritage,
—EDRIC STORM, his acknowledged bastard son by Lady Delena of House Florent, hiding in Lys,
—{BARRA}, his bastard daughter by a whore of King’s Landing, killed by the command of his
widow
Bella is the one bastard we supposedly know about who never gets listed as being Robert’s bastard. Why would GRRM just not list her as one of his children if she was?
All of which is a long winded way of saying that no, I don’t think Bella is Robert’s daughter. She might be, but I doubt it as IMO the evidence is far more overwhelming that she’s just some black haired whore. And if the absolute worst thing is that she actually is his daughter, then that is exactly a single time that we could ever actually say that Robert ever cheated on Lyanna, and that he did so after she’d already been taken from him.
His bastards IMO don’t at all disprove the notion that Robert loved Lyanna. If any thing they strengthen it. They’re all from before or after his relationship with her, with the majority being from after. As far as we know during their 3 years together he never actually did cheat on her. I don’t know if that’s something that could’ve lasted, but Robert’s lecherous behaviour is pre-betrothal and after her death, not during their betrothal. He was as loyal as he ever was in his entire life based on the evidence during that period of his life that he was in a relationship with Lyanna. His bastards support his love of Lyanna as they’re not there during that relationship, or at worst there’s only a single one, though as I detailed, I think she’s of dubious nature.
So then the obvious question becomes, what changed Robert?
Love is sweet, dearest Ned
"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature."
This is an often quoted passage from AGOT that supposedly “proves” that Lyanna was right about Robert, that he could never change who he was no matter how much he loved her, and that he’d always have cheated on her. Well hopefully the last part of this essay proved that as far as we know Robert DIDN’T cheat on her, so then why would I come back to this passage if Robert had already proved Lyanna wrong? Well the thing is is that Lyanna was also wrong about love being unable to change Robert’s nature as it clearly did. I’ll admit that much of the next bit of analysis comes from an analysis done by the Reddit user Specterace on this quote and on Robert and Lyanna (links here and here), but the fact of the matter is is that Lyanna was dead wrong about Robert, and that Robert himself proved she was wrong about love being able to change a man’s nature.
Again and again throughout AGOT it is hammered home to the reader that Robert is not the man he used to be. The most poignant contrast is of course our very first introduction to him
Would that Ned had been able to say the same. Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume.
Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height. Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands. Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward, the king had gained at least eight stone. A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.
Now it was perfume that clung to him like perfume, and he had a girth to match his height. Ned had last seen the king nine years before during Balon Greyjoy's rebellion, when the stag and the direwolf had joined to end the pretensions of the self-proclaimed King of the Iron Islands. Since the night they had stood side by side in Greyjoy's fallen stronghold, where Robert had accepted the rebel lord's surrender and Ned had taken his son Theon as hostage and ward, the king had gained at least eight stone. A beard as coarse and black as iron wire covered his jaw to hide his double chin and the sag of the royal jowls, but nothing could hide his stomach or the dark circles under his eyes.
Robert has experienced an enormous physical decay over the years. But it’s not just a physical decay that’s happened to Robert, and emotional and empathetic one has happened too
"Mercy is never a mistake, Lord Renly," Ned replied. "On the Trident, Ser Barristan here cut down a dozen good men, Robert's friends and mine. When they brought him to us, grievously wounded and near death, Roose Bolton urged us to cut his throat, but your brother said, 'I will not kill a man for loyalty, nor for fighting well,' and sent his own maester to tend Ser Barristan's wounds." He gave the king a long cool look. "Would that man were here today."
Robert has decayed in every sense over the years. And as we’ve covered, the only thing truly missing in his life is Lyanna. And as we’ve covered, Robert did love Lyanna. It’s the loss of Lyanna herself that caused all of this. Robert is not the man he used to be because he lost the woman he loved.
Love did change Robert’s nature. It made him go from a valiant, honest, charming, gregarious man, to a broken spirited man, willing to kill innocents instead of facing them on a battlefield. Love changed him, but not in a good way because he no longer had his love.
The very often cited passage by Lyanna, one of our only glimpses ever into her as a character, was completely wrong. He was capable of keeping to one bed, and his love for her and the loss he felt when she was taken from him, completely wrecked him and changed who he was. Love was indeed capable of changing a man like Robert Baratheon. It just didn’t change him the right way.
Which is of course why Robert hates Rhaegar and the Targaryens.
The Stag vs The Dragon
"Unspeakable?" the king roared. "What Aerys did to your brother Brandon was unspeakable. The way your lord father died, that was unspeakable. And Rhaegar … how many times do you think he raped your sister? How many hundreds of times?" His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at Ned. "I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I will piss on their graves."
It isn’t at all a secret that Robert hates Rhaegar. But I feel like too many people simply brush over why Robert hates him and the Targaryens in general. We’ve already covered that losing Lyanna wrecked his life, but we need to also cover how he lost her. I know some think she eloped, some that she was kidnapped, some that maybe nothing happened to her at all. But none of that is really relevant as to what Robert thinks based on what Robert knows.
As was covered above, Robert says Rhaegar raped Lyanna hundreds of times. It’s also routinely stated throughout the novels that Rhaegar also kidnapped her
With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.
Now you’re free to doubt either claim as much as you want. But that’s not really what this is about, this is what Robert knows and should feel. Put yourself in Robert’s shoes
- You are happily betrothed to your best friend’s sister
- Your cousin, who your own parents died trying to find a bride for, kidnaps and rapes your betrothed, after he was already married to another woman for years and has 2 kids with her
- His father demands your head for literally no reason whatsoever
- You start a war to get retribution for all the wrongs and slights done to you
- Rhaegar, the guy who primarily wronged you, hides almost the entire war, and never reveals himself until almost 2 years have passed since your betrothed was taken
- You kill Rhaegar, but Lyanna dies anyways
Robert’s story is an incredibly sad one. Even Osha, a wildling captive who probably knows absolutely nothing about it, thinks his story is sad when Bran tells it to her
"The maid's a fair one," Osha said.
"Robert was betrothed to marry her, but Prince Rhaegar carried her off and raped her," Bran explained. "Robert fought a war to win her back. He killed Rhaegar on the Trident with his hammer, but Lyanna died and he never got her back at all."
"A sad tale," said Osha
"Robert was betrothed to marry her, but Prince Rhaegar carried her off and raped her," Bran explained. "Robert fought a war to win her back. He killed Rhaegar on the Trident with his hammer, but Lyanna died and he never got her back at all."
"A sad tale," said Osha
Robert has every reason to hate the Targaryens for what they did. They took away the one thing that ever made him truly happy. And whether or not she was kidnapped and raped, Robert at least THOUGHT she was as no one has ever told him otherwise and there haven’t been any reports that she wasn’t, which of course makes everything so much worse as it makes her death even more tragic, that she was both taken AND defiled
"She was more beautiful than that," the king said after a silence. His eyes lingered on Lyanna's face, as if he could will her back to life. Finally he rose, made awkward by his weight. "Ah, damn it, Ned, did you have to bury her in a place like this?" His voice was hoarse with remembered grief. "She deserved more than darkness …"
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
"She was a Stark of Winterfell," Ned said quietly. "This is her place."
"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."
He didn’t just lose what he thought was the best part of his life, the Targaryens had to go and ruin her life too first as far as he is aware.
Conclusion
I’ll admit, that unlike my usual essays this wasn’t some kind of thought out theory, and I’m not trying to go anywhere with this beyond simply examine Robert and what went wrong. Most of this is stuff that’s simply in the books. We’re told Robert loved Lyanna, we’re told he lost her, we’re told he’s not the man he used to be, etc. But a lot of it gets brushed away for whatever reason. Most of that IMO is feelings for Lyanna. I get Lyanna is her own woman too, and should have a say in her own life, and if she didn’t want Robert than that’s her own decision that’s she’s free to make. Though I’m not so sure if she didn’t want him. We’ve already covered that there’s a huge portion of their betrothal that we simply know nothing about, which is likely where Robert fell in love with her, that they share similar interests, but also I think we should go back to the opening quote of this essay
Robert wanted smiles and cheers, always, so he went where he found them, to his friends and his whores. Robert wanted to be loved.
Cersei tells us that Robert wanted to be well liked so he went where he was popular. I find it hard to believe that he fell for a girl so hard who was as some theorize completely indifferent to him, if not outright hated him. If Robert went where he was well received, well then I’d say that Lyanna probably did like some aspects of him otherwise he’d have stayed away from his frigid northern betrothed and never fallen for her, same as he stays away from his frigid western queen and never fell for her. Remember, he still was a tall, extremely muscular, handsome, charming man, who shared a ton of her interests, and she’s only ever voiced a complaint about possible fidelity issues before they were ever together. I wouldn’t ever be surprised at all to find out that Lyanna might have liked a younger Robert.
But regardless, Robert did want her, and he got treated completely unjustly by everything that happened, no matter what side of the elopement/kidnap divide you find yourself on.
Robert could be merciful. Ser Barristan was scarcely the only man he had pardoned. Grand Maester Pycelle, Varys the Spider, Lord Balon Greyjoy; each had been counted an enemy to Robert once, and each had been welcomed into friendship and allowed to retain honors and office for a pledge of fealty. So long as a man was brave and honest, Robert would treat him with all the honor and respect due a valiant enemy.
This was something else: poison in the dark, a knife thrust to the soul. This he could never forgive, no more than he had forgiven Rhaegar. He will kill them all, Ned realized.
This was something else: poison in the dark, a knife thrust to the soul. This he could never forgive, no more than he had forgiven Rhaegar. He will kill them all, Ned realized.
The very least that could’ve happened was that everybody was at least honest and valiant with him. If Lyanna ran away then somebody could’ve told him and told him why. If she was kidnapped Rhaegar could’ve at least first tried to duel him for her or give her up peacefully if he wanted her so bad. Robert would’ve killed everybody in his path just like he did anyways probably, but the sting would not have been there that nobody had the guts to at least face him like an honest and valiant person, which is why Ned says he never forgave Rhaegar. His life would’ve probably never been the same, but he wouldn’t have been consumed by hatred and developed into the darkly twisted mockery of who he used to be.
Maybe his love for Lyanna has grown over the years beyond what it once was. But I doubt that as Ned says he loved her even more than he himself did despite having not seen Robert in 9 years and therefore not yet having any reason to exaggerate Robert’s love before he yet sees how much Robert misses her as he later will. In fact Ned is shocked and deeply touched when the very first thing Robert does upon arriving in Winterfell is to ask to see Lyanna’s tomb. He had no idea yet how badly Robert missed Lyanna, yet he still says he loved her greatly. Ned is operating based off past knowledge, from how he remembers Robert speak of her and probably interact with her. He tells us before he ever sees Robert pine over her all series that Robert loved her.
In the end, Robert loved his she-wolf and when that she-wolf died the stag was left broken but still alive. Which come to think of it, is exactly like the dead direwolf Robb finds at the beginning of AGOT, killed in a duel with a stag. The wolf died, but the stag survived, lesser than it once was without its antler that it lost with the she-wold. It’s also a tad ironic that that hornless stag is also another perfect metaphor for Robert too in that Cersei “horns” him by pretending to have his children. So many metaphors right there in the form of a dead she-wolf and a broken stag.
"You avenged Lyanna at the Trident," Ned said, halting beside the king. Promise me, Ned, she had whispered.
"That did not bring her back." Robert looked away, off into the grey distance. "The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown … it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe … and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."
"That did not bring her back." Robert looked away, off into the grey distance. "The gods be damned. It was a hollow victory they gave me. A crown … it was the girl I prayed them for. Your sister, safe … and mine again, as she was meant to be. I ask you, Ned, what good is it to wear a crown? The gods mock the prayers of kings and cowherds alike."
