Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Thought I'd post this newly released video from the season 6 DVD as it contained some interesting inclusions, and some interesting exclusions. In particular these are the things I found most interesting
- Howland refused to ever tell the story again when in the books he told the story hundreds of times, as both Meera and Jojen are shocked how Bran's never equally heard it from Ned so often. - Howland came south specifically for the tourney so I guess the show is just dropping the fact that Howland spent years on a nearby forbidden island and just happened to notice Harrenhal on his way home - Howland is pointed out as being small at Harrenhal (just like the KOTLT mind you), yet at the TOJ he's the same size as all the other northerners. Did he grow in the next 2 years or something? - Howland came south specifically for Harrenhal yet had no clothes to actually attend the tourney, which really doesn't make sense lol - The porcupine knight is a member of House Blount as was long suspected - Only Robert was tasked with unmasking the knight in here and no mention whatsoever of Rhaegar ever being sent to find the knight. Guess that "Rhaegar finds Lyanna" theory is a dud - Looks like a Stark was one of the jousters who beat a son of Harrenhal as it looks like a Stark shield is among the champion sigils (it's a slightly off colour, but that definitely looks like a wolf's head and nobody else's sigil looks closer than the Starks). If it's Brandon, who we know rode in the tourney, then Brandon reigned as champion for a really long time (like 5 days), and was one of the champions who showed up while the KOTLT disappeared. Or it means that either Ned or Benjen also rode in the tourney and reigned briefly as a champion and Brandon later became champion too/made his way to the end to lose against Rhaegar
voiceSlyWrenwolfmaid7 wouldn't mind in particular hearing your guys thoughts on what the show seemingly decided to include/get rid of in their Harrenhal story. The lack of the mention of Howland going to the Isle of Faces, the seemingly confirmation that the porcupine knight was a Blount, the lack of Rhaegar's involvement in finding the knight, etc. seem like things that could interest you
Of course though the show is the show and the books are the books.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
voiceSlyWrenwolfmaid7 wouldn't mind in particular hearing your guys thoughts on what the show seemingly decided to include/get rid of in their Harrenhal story. The lack of the mention of Howland going to the Isle of Faces, the seemingly confirmation that the porcupine knight was a Blount, the lack of Rhaegar's involvement in finding the knight, etc. seem like things that could interest you
Interesting indeed!
The substitution of Robert for Rhaegar's involvement is rather odd. Either it is a way for the show to build some non-RLJ backstory, in order to support Robert+Lya, or, they intend to make Rhaegar the KotLT. Neither would surprise me at this point.
Thought I'd post this newly released video from the season 6 DVD as it contained some interesting inclusions, and some interesting exclusions.
I finally got around to watching these Lore video's yesterday and I paid the most attention to House Dayne and Harrenhal. It is very interesting how the show pick and chooses from the book canon to create show canon. Or they just make shit up!
- Howland refused to ever tell the story again when in the books he told the story hundreds of times, as both Meera and Jojen are shocked how Bran's never equally heard it from Ned so often. - Howland came south specifically for the tourney so I guess the show is just dropping the fact that Howland spent years on a nearby forbidden island and just happened to notice Harrenhal on his way home - Howland is pointed out as being small at Harrenhal (just like the KOTLT mind you), yet at the TOJ he's the same size as all the other northerners. Did he grow in the next 2 years or something?
These were interesting. Howland telling the story only once instead of multiple times to his kids is very different. Maybe they are alluding to how Ned never talked about it to his children, and that is to make us assume something bad happened there, as opposed to something very important happened at Harrenhal.
I think either the Isle of Faces is something the show will blow off because it is too mystical, or they are saving it for a big reveal at some point. GRRM seems to have alluded to the God's Eye and Isle of Faces as being important to the conclusion of his story, but who knows what the show will do.
As for Howland being small, how small are we talking? Like dwarf small, hobbit small? I guess I assumed this meant he was small of stature, as opposed to Robert Baratheon, who was large of stature. Just a shortie, like me, who is barely 5'1". The ToJ scene made Howland look about Ned's size, so maybe that is to allude that Ned wasn't very big, either?
Looks like a Stark was one of the jousters who beat a son of Harrenhal as it looks like a Stark shield is among the champion sigils (it's a slightly off colour, but that definitely looks like a wolf's head and nobody else's sigil looks closer than the Starks). If it's Brandon, who we know rode in the tourney, then Brandon reigned as champion for a really long time (like 5 days), and was one of the champions who showed up while the KOTLT disappeared. Or it means that either Ned or Benjen also rode in the tourney and reigned briefly as a champion and Brandon later became champion too/made his way to the end to lose against Rhaegar
I never noticed that Stark banner; good eye. I would assume Brandon, since he was the wild one and reported to be a good rider. Ned in the show did not put much interest in tourney's and jousts, but young Ned may be very different from older Ned, who probably looked at life differently after losing his father, brother and sister and fighting a war. Maybe Ned pre-rebellion loved to joust? In the books, Ned dreams of reaching out and grasping the crown of roses from Lyanna's lap, so that would have been hard to do if he was mounted on a horse in the lists. That might not have really happened, however, and/or show vs books is very different.
The substitution of Robert for Rhaegar's involvement is rather odd. Either it is a way for the show to build some non-RLJ backstory, in order to support Robert+Lya, or, they intend to make Rhaegar the KotLT. Neither would surprise me at this point.
It was interesting that this video choose to leave Rhaegar out of this part of the story, although in the books, Robert and Richard Lonmouth did pledge to unmask the Knight of the Laughing Tree. It will be interesting to see how the show handles Harrenhal.
I wonder sometimes what was going on when Ned danced with Ashara. This Lore video makes a point of the Ned/Ashara connection. But is it something, or is it nothing? Was he too shy to ask, or did he not want to dance with her. Ashara does come up in Ned's story line a lot, and there are hints of romance. But what is actually happening and what is implied to be happening in this story are usually very different. So, I am almost inclined to think the opposite of romance might have been going on. I like to think if Ned as young and romantically involved with a beautiful girl, however!
I wonder sometimes what was going on when Ned danced with Ashara. This Lore video makes a point of the Ned/Ashara connection. But is it something, or is it nothing? Was he too shy to ask, or did he not want to dance with her. Ashara does come up in Ned's story line a lot, and there are hints of romance. But what is actually happening and what is implied to be happening in this story are usually very different. So, I am almost inclined to think the opposite of romance might have been going on. I like to think if Ned as young and romantically involved with a beautiful girl, however!
It is certainly a curious situation. Lots of hormones around that tourney. LOL
It is certainly a curious situation. Lots of hormones around that tourney. LOL
Oh, Harrenhal, how I wish I could have been there. So much must have been going on there. Plot's, people, hormones, honor, etc, and most of it very different from our initial perception. That is why I tend to doubt the love story aspect of it, and do see that politics probably played a larger role.
Thanks for the link. I have seen this theory over on Westeros, and thought it made a lot of sense. Very well put together. I can see many aspects of it being the case. GRRM likes to mess with our perception of events, and he seems to use repetitive behavior/actions to move the plot forward, as well as mirrors of people or their actions in the present and the past.
Certainly Tywin is a crafty dude, and I agree, that he not only wanted Aerys off the throne, he wanted to end the Targaryen dynasty. And he would be smart enough to use as many people as he needed to to make it happen, including Rhaegar, and leave very little of a trail to himself.
Their father understood as well. "You want no pup for yourself, Jon?" he asked softly.
