Post by whitewolfstark on Feb 22, 2017 20:46:44 GMT
I recently subscribed to a theory video maker named "The Northlander", and he recently put out Part 2 of a theory video about Gregor Clegane which got me thinking... dang, he might have a point about what he's specifically talking about.
My first thought in watching this is that Tywin might have done more than merely benefit in finding the dead bodies of Elia and the children. He might have known/assisted Varys in his plan.
As I've argued here, Tywin was Rhaegar's only sane father-figure at court. Robert told us in Ned II (iirc) that Tywin had never taken a ward before. I don't think that is true. Or, if it is, I think it is only true because Tywin had been raising four children: Rhaegar, Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion.
Thanks to much study of the timeline, I know that:
Tywin served as Hand from 262 to 281
and
Rhaegar was alive from 259 to 283.
We saw Robert take Eddard away from his home and family to run the kingdom. I think Aerys did the same, but he enjoyed running the kingdom. What Aerys did not enjoy, was his home and family.
So that leaves Tywin to raise and mold this dutiful and intelligent dragonprince. Cersei loves beautiful brothers, and I think Rhaegar was another version of that for her. In Rhaegar's stead, Jaime would do. Jaime too seems to have loved Rhaegar like a brother, or at least, admired him greatly.
In the buildup to Robert's Rebellion, Jaime was a Sworn Brother of the kingsguard. If anyone knew Aerys was a shitty father, and that there was little love lost between he and Rhaegar, it would have been Jaime. His own father had been Hand for practically all of Rhaegar's life.
In short, I think Tywin created the perfect king when raising Rhaegar. Once Robert killed that king at the Trident, the Lannisters were fucked. All of their eggs were in Rhaegar's basket. They had been waging a far more careful rebellion than Robert's for clost to twenty years.
Good things come to those who wait, and the Lions had waited an entire generation for the glory that should have been theirs. Then, Donal Noye's warhammer smashed that glory to pieces.
If I am right, Varys might well have been a part of Tywin's plot to place Rhaegar on the IT. Sure Varys seemed loyal to Aerys, but Varys seems loyal to everyone. Once Rhaegar was dead, it makes sense to me that the two of them would have conspired to protect Aegon.
Robert was a fool to whom neither had any allegiance.
Yes, GRRM has written a story about a guy who hid and protected Rhaegar's son, but that man is Tywin, not Eddard.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
I remember watching this awhile ago. Very interesting considering the "greyness" of the series. We know Gregor suffers from blinding headaches and drinks milk of the poppy like men drink ale.
I hadn't really considered this, however I do think that the Mountain does get blamed for a lot of things in the Riverlands during the War of the 5 Kings. I certainly think things were being blamed on him and by extension House Lannister and as soon as he dies his brother. Or rather someone with the Hound helmet picks up the sword and commits new atrocities. This plays into my Darry/Brotherhood/Sparrow theory.
voice, Tywin certainly is man who kept his options opened. I need to reread your theory. However Varys cautioned against opening the gates to Tywin. Now this could simply be case of reverse psychology but Varys usually seemed to have the ear Aerys and actively prevented the Council at Harrenhal. Granted Varys is playing his own game to get Aegon on the throne but it seems like a stretch.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
My first thought in watching this is that Tywin might have done more than merely benefit in finding the dead bodies of Elia and the children. He might have known/assisted Varys in his plan.
As I've argued here, Tywin was Rhaegar's only sane father-figure at court. Robert told us in Ned II (iirc) that Tywin had never taken a ward before. I don't think that is true. Or, if it is, I think it is only true because Tywin had been raising four children: Rhaegar, Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion.
Thanks to much study of the timeline, I know that:
Tywin served as Hand from 262 to 281
and
Rhaegar was alive from 259 to 283.
We saw Robert take Eddard away from his home and family to run the kingdom. I think Aerys did the same, but he enjoyed running the kingdom. What Aerys did not enjoy, was his home and family.
So that leaves Tywin to raise and mold this dutiful and intelligent dragonprince. Cersei loves beautiful brothers, and I think Rhaegar was another version of that for her. In Rhaegar's stead, Jaime would do. Jaime too seems to have loved Rhaegar like a brother, or at least, admired him greatly.
In the buildup to Robert's Rebellion, Jaime was a Sworn Brother of the kingsguard. If anyone knew Aerys was a shitty father, and that there was little love lost between he and Rhaegar, it would have been Jaime. His own father had been Hand for practically all of Rhaegar's life.
In short, I think Tywin created the perfect king when raising Rhaegar. Once Robert killed that king at the Trident, the Lannisters were fucked. All of their eggs were in Rhaegar's basket. They had been waging a far more careful rebellion than Robert's for clost to twenty years.
Good things come to those who wait, and the Lions had waited an entire generation for the glory that should have been theirs. Then, Donal Noye's warhammer smashed that glory to pieces.
If I am right, Varys might well have been a part of Tywin's plot to place Rhaegar on the IT. Sure Varys seemed loyal to Aerys, but Varys seems loyal to everyone. Once Rhaegar was dead, it makes sense to me that the two of them would have conspired to protect Aegon.
Robert was a fool to whom neither had any allegiance.
Yes, GRRM has written a story about a guy who hid and protected Rhaegar's son, but that man is Tywin, not Eddard.
I would find this argument compelling, if Tywin showed that he was capable as a parent to raise children who were the least competent or capable of replicating what he did and then improving upon it.
Except, we know that Jaime and Cersei were raised at the Rock by their mother and other family members. Aunt Genna was a mother figure for Jaime after his mother died (which indicates he remained at the Rock after his mother died).
And when Jaime was squired out it was to House Crakehall. All in all, Tywin didn't have too much hand in raising his children, I'd argue. We know he ignored Tyrion. He had his wife and Genna raise Jaime and Cersei, and then foisted Jaime on the Crakehalls for a squiring.
Which means that Tywin could have put all his eggs in one basket (Rhaegar) or he could have not focused on Rhaegar.
The impression I'm left in with regards to Rhaegar was that he was left to his own devices and sought out aid when he couldn't teach himself. Add to it that he was Prince of Dragonstone, which means Rhaegar at a young age would have been sent to Dragonstone to learn how to rule there with some trusted advisor means that while Tywin is ruling from King's Landing, most of Rhaegar's education is occurring while he's on Dragonstone. This is the Targaryen system and it's based in large part on the English system with regards to the "Prince of Wales" situation.
Edward Plantagenant (who became Edward V) was Prince of Wales and at a very young age was shipped off with his maternal Uncle, the Baron Rivers, to rule Wales and learn how to rule and manage a household. In fact the fact that he was in Wales was a big reason Richard III and the Woodvilles had a falling out when Edward IV died. What happened is the Baron Rivers was of the Woodville faction (that was his family after all), and he was bringing the Prince back to London to crown him, and they were intercepted on the road by Richard III, who after wining and dining Baron Rivers, accused him of plotting against him and had him arrested. Edward challenged his uncle Richard on this point there's a great quote he is recorded as saying that I'd love to include in my writing sometime in the future, which likely had a deciding factor in Richard III trying to figure out a way to declare Edward V a bastard, because Richard III realized he wasn't going to be able to keep Edward V a puppet for very long because he'd upset the independent minded Edward V.
In short though, the heir gets sent off to the castle that's used as a training ground, and unless you're arguing that Tywin was ruling from Dragonstone, I don't think Tywin had much influence over Rhaegar in the least.
I also think that if Tywin had made Rhaegar his own "son" in all but name that we'd have someone recalling how Aerys used that as yet another reason to hate Tywin, yet Aerys doesn't complain about that in the least... odd, isn't it?
It's, quite admittedly, one of my less canonical theories. Lol
What I do find compelling, in regards to it and this video theory, is that once we take a break from hating the Lannisters, we find a lot to like. The Defiance of Duskendale would have saved the realm from RR and the Wot5K.
Other conflicts would undoubtedly emerge, but two civil wars in fifteen years is a bit extreme.
I think Tywin and Varys truly served "the Realm," and that they are pretty much the only two characters we've seen in KL to do so. If others had not interfered with their plans, we might see a much stronger 7K.
"I can see it. You have more of the north in you than your brothers."
It's, quite admittedly, one of my less canonical theories. Lol
What I do find compelling, in regards to it and this video theory, is that once we take a break from hating the Lannisters, we find a lot to like. The Defiance of Duskendale would have saved the realm from RR and the Wot5K.
Other conflicts would undoubtedly emerge, but two civil wars in fifteen years is a bit extreme.
I think Tywin and Varys truly served "the Realm," and that they are pretty much the only two characters we've seen in KL to do so. If others had not interfered with their plans, we might see a much stronger 7K.
I am not sure Tywin serves the realm. I think he serves what he thinks is in the best interest of House Lannister. Granted having Aerys killed at Duskendale or having a Council at Harrenhal would have likely prevented Robert's Rebellion.
Nor Varys really with the whole Blackfyre thing. I mean what does it even mean to serve the realm? I mean someone has to rule it and all the players want to rule it. I mean Aegon V was the last one who tried to reform the kingdom and rule for the realm and the smallfolk. Needless to say the Lords hated that shit and him taking away their "ancient rights."
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!