AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!)

shymaid
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) May 11, 2017 13:17:21 GMT voice, Wraith, and 2 more like this

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Post by shymaid on May 11, 2017 13:17:21 GMT

First things first. No, I do not like the Stoneheart. On my first read, I'd basicly had enough after her second chapter. This time it's fysically painfull. So I need to vent!

The read is :coffee

in just as random order as bad ideas flutter through that brain of hers.
I mean:
- disregarding your Lord husband's order to return to WF and your four - 4 - year old and your newly crippled son??? Oh yes, I'm sure you love them with all your stoneheart!
- going to a sickbed in the middle of a war-zone?? Are you stupid??
- how is Robb the only one you can help when he is on a war campain? What experience of fighting a war does growing and birthing babies safely in a castle give you?
- "She ought to have known that Brynden Blackfish would be well ahead of her." Finally a coherent thought! Yes, he's a worrior...
- Interesting observation no. 1: Brynden's blackfish brooch is of obsidian (Yes, her chapters are so f***ing boring details escapes me...)
- "What would my lord father do?" Robb, Robb, please! Ask someone with experience or at the very least fought with Ned previousley. You should've sent her ~~home~~ back to WF...
- "Find a way across, whatever it took" Really, Stoneheart? Do you know that from experience?

When I got to the Frey's comming out to meet them, I gave up and started skimming. And had three breakes before I got this far...
- interesting info no. 1: the fostering of Sweet Robin.

While reading her chapters I want N+A=trueborn J to be true and her to find out, just out of spite. :tictoc

And I'm mostly an easygoing, non-spitefull person.
And now that I've blown off some steam, did I miss anything important or interesting in the rest? Stoneheart is difficult on her own, with Walder in the mix, it's unbearable...

So, rant over! :cool

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cecily
Jon Connington

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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jun 5, 2017 10:01:01 GMT shymaid likes this

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Post by cecily on Jun 5, 2017 10:01:01 GMT

Perhaps you'd like a nice cup of nettle tea.
Of course you're right; the woman is a trainwreck!
And GRRM made her that way.
what?

That should tell us...
She's set as a distracting element, set to camouflage something else?
GRRM hates his mother-in-law?
Other?

Blackfish and his obsidian/dragonglass brooch. Is there something hidden in this unexpected mention of dragonglass, or I suffering from the Long Wait Syndrome?

shymaid
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jun 5, 2017 16:53:38 GMT

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Post by shymaid on Jun 5, 2017 16:53:38 GMT

Jun 5, 2017 10:07:40 GMT cecily said:

Perhaps you'd like a nice cup of nettle tea.
Of course you're right; the woman is a trainwreck!
And GRRM made her that way.
what?

LOL! That day I think milk of the poppy would've been better, dreamwine at the very least. I seriously can't read that creature's POV if I'm having a slightly bad day, on good days I'm inclined to pull out my hair! :hair

I've heard rumors that people actually views her as a "strong heroic wife and mother", and am at a total loss on how anyone can come to that conclution with an intact brain.
As to GRRM making her that way, here is an interesting snippet re: Stoneheart from an SSM:

he said that he himself was very surprised by what she did, but he'd had to let her have it her way

She just had to have her way? I'm sure Ned knows aaaaaaal about Stoneheart having her own way... Poor thing, having to marry that.

Jun 5, 2017 10:07:40 GMT cecily said:

That should tell us...
She's set as a distracting element, set to camouflage something else?
GRRM hates his mother-in-law?
Other?

Some say she was working with LF, and her taking Tyrion was due to that. He did have her to himself for 3 days before Ned arrived at KL, so who knows what they cooked up togheter! It's interesting that she thinks things clearly out, and then does the worst thing possible. So it's not that she acts out of pure emotion or are utterly stupid. Her chapters are in equal parts boring and frustrating, and I think it's mostly to distract from the way she destroys the Starks and every move is thought out.
Of course, she could be outwitted and easily too (she's not as clever or cunning as she thinks, she's like a lesser Cercei), and I don't think she wanted her children dead. Ned I'm honestly not sure of, but wouldn't put it past her to wish Ned never to leave KL alive.
I have no idea if GRRM hates his mil, but he does have a thing for redheads. So maybe he models her after an ex?

Jun 5, 2017 10:07:40 GMT cecily said:

Blackfish and his obsidian/dragonglass brooch. Is there something hidden in this unexpected mention of dragonglass, or I suffering from the Long Wait Syndrome?

Haha, sometimes I think I see too much into things. I'm sure dragonglass is mentioned more than I remember, as it's so connected with the Wall etc in my head that I probably don't notice. It was almost that straw a drowning woman grasps. :lmao

"OMG! Something interesting! That HAVE TO MEAN SOMETHING!!!!"
That being said, obsidian could possibly mean something. Or it's "just" the effect it has on the Others as shown us by Sam. I'm too new to this game at this point to say.

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danl Catelyn Tully Posts: 642 danl inherit Male 260 0 Jun 3, 2022 14:39:33 GMT 809 danl 642 Catelyn Tully Aug 8, 2016 18:22:56 GMT August 2016 danl	AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jun 5, 2017 20:46:22 GMT Wraith and shymaid like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by danl on Jun 5, 2017 20:46:22 GMT You may find this entertaining. It is the first of their Why Catelyn Sucks series

shymaid
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jun 6, 2017 17:22:49 GMT danl likes this

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Post by shymaid on Jun 6, 2017 17:22:49 GMT

danl, I've relished on that series quite a few times! Saw the first before I read the books, and found her chapters worse than I thought... And I actually try to like her, at least a wee bit more, but it's HARD...

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arrysfleas
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jul 28, 2017 20:28:40 GMT Wraith likes this

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Post by arrysfleas on Jul 28, 2017 20:28:40 GMT

Jul 23, 2017 15:17:30 GMT cecily said:

That should tell us...
She's set as a distracting element, set to camouflage something else?

Jul 27, 2017 6:06:09 GMT shymaid said:

Some say she was working with LF, and her taking Tyrion was due to that. He did have her to himself for 3 days before Ned arrived at KL, so who knows what they cooked up togheter!

cecily you have a point there. Why is Catelyn making so many wrong decisions? abandoning her children etc.

looking at it this way i wonder if she was somewhat tampered with when she looked after Bran day-in day-out for several weeks? she was mentally and physically weakened, an easy target for mind prying.

Aside from hating Jon, does she have a past history of making bad decisions?

shymaid, perhaps instead she always had Sansa's desire for the limelight; exacerbated by being exiled in the WF hole for years with the brooding Ned.
So when the opportunity/excuse to run to Tinseltown/KL came, she jumped; when the opportunity to get easy revenge glory by taking Tyrion came, she jumped again.

Last Edit: Jul 28, 2017 20:35:47 GMT by arrysfleas

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Wraith
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jul 29, 2017 3:59:28 GMT

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Post by Wraith on Jul 29, 2017 3:59:28 GMT

Jul 27, 2017 6:06:09 GMT shymaid said:

Some say she was working with LF, and her taking Tyrion was due to that. He did have her to himself for 3 days before Ned arrived at KL, so who knows what they cooked up togheter! It's interesting that she thinks things clearly out, and then does the worst thing possible. So it's not that she acts out of pure emotion or are utterly stupid. Her chapters are in equal parts boring and frustrating, and I think it's mostly to distract from the way she destroys the Starks and every move is thought out.
Of course, she could be outwitted and easily too (she's not as clever or cunning as she thinks, she's like a lesser Cercei), and I don't think she wanted her children dead. Ned I'm honestly not sure of, but wouldn't put it past her to wish Ned never to leave KL alive.
I have no idea if GRRM hates his mil, but he does have a thing for redheads. So maybe he models her after an ex?

As far as people thinking Cat was working with Baelish do you have a theory or a link to one. Or even a link to a thread discussing it(besides this one of course) because I would very much like to read it.

Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.

Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!

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shymaid
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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!) Jul 29, 2017 6:36:09 GMT Wraith and arrysfleas like this

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Post by shymaid on Jul 29, 2017 6:36:09 GMT

Jul 29, 2017 3:58:55 GMT arrysfleas said:

shymaid, perhaps instead she always had Sansa's desire for the limelight; exacerbated by being exiled in the WF hole for years with the brooding Ned.
So when the opportunity/excuse to run to Tinseltown/KL came, she jumped; when the opportunity to get easy revenge glory by taking Tyrion came, she jumped again.

I think she did, so being married to the solemn Ned wasn't really what she had dreamed her life to be.
1. Instead of the dashing Brandon she gets the boring little brother, and him just loosing most of his family in a terrible war wouldn't make this tendency of his any better IMO.
2. Ned is the king's bestie, but still she is confined to the terrible north (her assesment) instead of leading a glamourus life in the Red Keep playing the Game. Unlike her little sister.
I think she was really bitter about this too, not just because of Jon. But reading her second chapter in GOT convinces me that it was all planned before hand to get her south at the very least.

Jul 29, 2017 4:13:26 GMT Wraith said:

As far as people thinking Cat was working with Baelish do you have a theory or a link to one. Or even a link to a thread discussing it(besides this one of course) because I would very much like to read it.

Well, there is the Why Catelyn Sucks videos, and I agree with much (but not all) of their assesments, and quite a few good comments on all of them too. If I've seen it discussed anywhere, I can't for the life of me remember where... It seems many see her as a "strong, heroic woman" for som really odd reason. :dunno

I don't have a spesific theory per se, just many hints over her chapters leads to this conclusion for me. For some just reading them makes it clear she's up to something. Of course I could start a thread on this if there is any interest.

Jul 29, 2017 3:58:55 GMT arrysfleas said:

Why is Catelyn making so many wrong decisions? abandoning her children etc.

This is the central question when it comes to her, and many just takes it as grief. But if you really read her chapters it's clear that many times she logically thinks through her options, then makes the worst choice she can. She's not a stupid woman, even if it seems like it. And it does, LOL! Oh well, to be honest she doesn't seem to be the sharpest mind, but still not outright stupid, So I can only conclude that it's intentional.
To me it's quite clear that she intends to create caos - which is just what LF wants - and make it difficult if not impossible for any peace to be made.

Jul 29, 2017 3:58:55 GMT arrysfleas said:

looking at it this way i wonder if she was somewhat tampered with when she looked after Bran day-in day-out for several weeks? she was mentally and physically weakened, an easy target for mind prying.

It's possible, also during her four-day sleep after the attack. Even though I'm pretty she had a whole plan going, she still could've been messed with. Or before, for that matter.

Jul 29, 2017 3:58:55 GMT arrysfleas said:

Aside from hating Jon, does she have a past history of making bad decisions?

Well, we don't have much information of her actions before GOT other than her teasing LF. But that could possibly be put on her age, at least at the start.

Last Edit: Jul 29, 2017 6:37:42 GMT by shymaid

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AGOT Chapter 59 Stoneheart 9 (Warning: rant!)

Post by shymaid on May 11, 2017 13:17:21 GMT

Post by cecily on Jun 5, 2017 10:01:01 GMT

Post by shymaid on Jun 5, 2017 16:53:38 GMT

Post by danl on Jun 5, 2017 20:46:22 GMT

Post by shymaid on Jun 6, 2017 17:22:49 GMT

Post by arrysfleas on Jul 28, 2017 20:28:40 GMT

Post by Wraith on Jul 29, 2017 3:59:28 GMT

Post by shymaid on Jul 29, 2017 6:36:09 GMT