Wait where is the part where the Children made the White Walkers? I didn't they add the most important fact?
Perhaps there were divisions within the COTF themselves? Hmm? Perhaps the ones on dragonstone didn't know how the WWs were made, simply that they were.
I'll believe that when they show it or the Others having divisions.
Darkstar will be the next Vulture King.
Craster has 19 daughters and there are 19 castles on the Wall, coincidence I think not!
So is Westeros totally screwed for food since Drogon burnt all that grain? Also Sansa made a mention of not enough grain. Wonder what's up with all that?
Harvests rot if you don't have enough men to collect them. You don't have enough men to collect them when you're at war. Ergot... because the War of the Five Kings happened--everyone's gonna starve come winter--that or depend upon places like the Summer Islands for food.
Next point: I think she just proved Jon's point: she's no different.
i disagree with this. i believe what Jon was commenting on was melting castles and burning cities, which was Dany's initial plan: Drogon and her to the red keep and fire and blud. She didn't do that, she implemented the blockade of KL and attacked their military forces in battle, not the civilians of the city. This wasn't the sack of KLII by Dothraki screamers, this was the Targ army decimating the Lannister forces in the open with few civilian casualties. yes, destroying the food will make many people suffer in the long term, but that is a bit different than bringing fire and blud to the people of KL...
Next point: I think she just proved Jon's point: she's no different.
i disagree with this. i believe what Jon was commenting on was melting castles and burning cities, which was Dany's initial plan: Drogon and her to the red keep and fire and blud. She didn't do that, she implemented the blockade of KL and attacked their military forces in battle, not the civilians of the city. This wasn't the sack of KLII by Dothraki screamers, this was the Targ army decimating the Lannister forces in the open with few civilian casualties. yes, destroying the food will make many people suffer in the long term, but that is a bit different than bringing fire and blud to the people of KL...
Jamie obviously saw shades of the Mad King in Dany when he charged her, and I bet he'll say as much in the next episode.
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Next point: I think she just proved Jon's point: she's no different.
i disagree with this. i believe what Jon was commenting on was melting castles and burning cities, which was Dany's initial plan: Drogon and her to the red keep and fire and blud. She didn't do that, she implemented the blockade of KL and attacked their military forces in battle, not the civilians of the city. This wasn't the sack of KLII by Dothraki screamers, this was the Targ army decimating the Lannister forces in the open with few civilian casualties. yes, destroying the food will make many people suffer in the long term, but that is a bit different than bringing fire and blud to the people of KL...
Dragging out the war like she is doing is simply causing more deaths and creating a large pool for the Night's King to pull from. I am starting to understand Truman's mindset now more than I did before. Yes destroying the Red Keep would be horrific, but god damn it, it's better than having the piles and piles of dead bodies that Dany's racking up right now in the Reach, in Dorne, on the seas, in the Westerlands... etc.
Additionally you don't last long as a ruler when there's bread riots. That's a consistent theme throughout history. Ignore the long term at your own peril.
ETA: That said, I didn't say what I said because of all that. I said what I said because watching the Lannister soldiers getting burned as they did was relatively revolting--and I don't like Lannisters. Why? Because they're just the schlubs conscripted into following their general's command.
IMO the show should stop the false moralizing when they're saying: "be different" and then immediately show Dany burning people to death like her father wet dreamed of doing. It comes off as wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
IMO the show should stop the false moralizing when they're saying: "be different" and then immediately show Dany burning people to death like her father wet dreamed of doing. It comes off as wanting to have their cake and eat it too.
Well, there's still some small hope that the show (and the books!) might recognize Dany as the flawed maniac she is.
So is Westeros totally screwed for food since Drogon burnt all that grain? Also Sansa made a mention of not enough grain. Wonder what's up with all that?
See, if they had a few White Walkers on the side of the living, they'd be able to use ice magic to collect and preserve all the dead flesh to feed the hungry masses.
"No true knight would condone such wanton butchery." "True knights see worse every time they ride to war, wench," said Jaime. "And do worse, yes." Brienne turned the rudder toward the shore. "I'll leave no innocents to be food for crows." "A heartless wench. Crows need to eat as well. Stay to the river and leave the dead alone, woman."
Winterfell Bran: chaos is a ladder. If I were LF, I'd be moving my butt out of WF immediately, before one of the Stark sisters musters up the courage to talk to weirBran again.
I also really liked the interaction between the Stark siblings, starting with the scene in the crypts. Sansa is creeped out by Bran but is comfortable around Arya, who she doesn't view as a threat. I liked how Sansa acknowledged Arya's strong bond with Jon. OH and even before that, I LOVED that Sansa knew Arya would be in the crypts, and she was. Nicely done, D&D.
I liked how Arya told Sansa about wanting to kill Cersei and the list and Sansa thought it was a joke. Then when they go see Bran, he says when last he saw her she was heading to KL to kill Cersei, because she's on her list. LOL!! Fantastic. And Sophie is brilliant in these scenes, as we see her begin to catch glimpses of what Arya has become.
Arya bridging the divide between Bran and Sansa was believable and I thought the acting was great all around. I'm not sure what's going on with this dagger; why is it back? Why would LF have brought it with him? What's his explanation for how he got it?
The only WF scene I didn't love was the Arya/Brienne duel. Arya isn't strong enough to parry Brienne's swings, and we've seen Oathkeeper cut a normal longsword in half; little Needle couldn't stand against it. Also, Brienne was swinging WAY too hard. Arya was completely unarmored; had she been too slow to get out of the way, Brienne would have cut her in two. Grr. But I understand what the scene was supposed to accomplish - show Sansa that Arya shouldn't be under estimated. So I'll forgive it. The end kind of made up for it anyway, when Brienne asked Arya who taught her to fight and Arya says no one. LOVED Winterfell overall, I hope we get more of this!!
King's Landing I'm surprised they're bringing up the Golden Company. Do D&D really plan to drag out this war, now that Dany has destroyed the Lannister army (not to mention all their food)? They'll need their new loan from the Iron Bank to purchase food from Essos, not ship in more mouths to feed.
Dragonstone While I liked the idea of them finding ancient COTF cave art, I found it a little too convenient that the whole story of the Long Night just happened to be written on the walls of Dany's fortress as a nice visual to support Jon's claims. I liked that she asked for his advice after she learned of Casterly Rock. I don't quite see why they're all afraid to let her attack KL. We know from earlier seasons that there are secret passages into the Red Keep, similar to those into Casterly Rock, which could similarly be used for a precision attack by the disciplined Unsullied. I also see no problem with simply roasting the Red Keep while sparing the city. Aegon did this to great effect at Harrenhall, and civilian casualties would be minimal. But fine, this way we got to see the battle that we got, and it was pretty amazing.
Field of Fire I think this may have been my favorite battle of the entire show. Why? Partly, I'm sure, because I legitimately didn't know the outcome and thus feared for all participating characters, on both sides. (Well, not Daenerys. But everyone else, including Drogon.) Then there was the fact that well-loved characters were fighting on opposite sides. I found myself so conflicted; first I felt sad for Jaime and Bronn, bravely forming up against an overwhelming force they couldn't hope to defeat. But when I saw how effectively Drogon broke their ranks, I marveled at his power. I wanted a win for Dany, it was about time! But then panning back to Jaime, the commander, doing his best to put up a good fight in an impossible situation, and Bronn's run to the scorpion, for a moment I wanted him to succeed. But then I didn't want Drogon to be killed, that would be terrible! So from an emotional standpoint, it was great. The acting was perfect, editing as well, and the visuals truly stunning.
About two thirds of the way through, it occurred to me that Dany was burning all the food. Yikes. Tyrion couldn't talk her out of this? Varys? Missandei? Those were the winter stores for all of King's Landing. The stores taken from the Westerlands and the Reach. Oh Dany...
Jaime presumably will be Dany's prisoner now, which will make for an interesting internal conflict for Tyrion. Jaime killed the Mad King (are Tyrion and Dany aware of what really happened there, with the wildfire and all?), and was about to kill Daenerys when Drogon and Bronn stopped him. He has been 100% loyal to Cersei, and I doubt even Tyrion believes he would ever join their cause and fight against her. So there is no reason for Dany not to kill Jaime. (Yes he could be a hostage but Cersei won't give up Westeros for him, and anything less doesn't help Daenerys). I'm interested to see how this goes!
The only small complaint I have is that nobody died on the Field of Fire. The battle was fantastic in every way, but there was no lasting emotional impact because everyone we care about is fine. If this was an earlier season, at the very least Bronn would have been burned along with the scorpion after he hit Drogon. He then would not have been there to save Jaime, who would have been burned as well. Pan over to Tyrion watching with tears in his eyes and fade to black. That would have haunted us well into next week.
“In Qohor he is the Black Goat, in Yi Ti the Lion of Night, in Westeros the Stranger. All men must bow to him in the end, no matter if they worship the Seven or the Lord of Light, the Moon Mother or the Drowned God or the Great Shepherd. All mankind belongs to him... else somewhere in the world would be a folk who lived forever. Do you know of any folk who live forever?”
As far as Drogon goes...Anyone think that the Lannisters poisoned the bolts that they were shooting at the dragons? It really makes sense for them to use poison because 1 bolt on it's own probably isn't going to kill the beast, but 1 poisoned one would.
That's one of the reasons why I really liked the Winterlands Quartet series by Barbara Hambly, as it realistically portrayed how someone would actually fight a dragon throughout the series. The story literally starts out (like within 15 pages lol) with this young prince going to meet the only living man to have ever slayed a dragon before, Lord John Aversin, as his kingdom has a dragon problem. He's got his head filled with songs of past Dragonsbanes, and in particular the song composed about John's killing of his dragon.
Then he's completely shocked and horrified to learn that John killed his dragon by sneaking up on it in its cave while it was sleeping, using harpoons dipped with poison to slow it down and mortally wound it should he lose, immediately cut its wings so that it couldn't fly, stayed in close so that it wouldn't spit fire on him for fear of getting some on itself, and then hacked off its head with an axe when the dragon was sufficiently slowed down as it was already dying on the ground. And John himself still nearly died in this encounter despite attacking the dragon using every possible dirty trick in the book.
The prince had expected John to have charge the dragon on a hill with a sword and lance like all the songs say and John is all like "Bet that's what your champions did to this new dragon, and bet they're all dead eh? What kind of idiot thinks a sword could harm a dragon?"
It was just nice to see a series realistically tackle the problem of trying to kill a dragon: fight it in a confined space where it can't fly, use poisons to ensure it'll die, and use weapons big and brutal enough to get through their scales, while acknowledging that dragon slaying stories are completely rubbish. There's even a part where the prince says some old Dragonbane killed a dragon that was "60 feet long" and John responds back saying like "The dragon couldn't have been 60 feet long, mine was only 25. 60 feet is just how great the storytellers must've thought that Dragonbane was." Like John just completely shits on everything dragon slaying this prince has ever heard and it's hilarious because of course John is completely right that the stories are all nonsense: it's precisely why he's the only living dragon slayer. He didn't follow the stories, he attacked the dragon logically.
All of which is a longwinded way of saying that I hope someone like Qyburn (or GRRM if he ever tackles this problem in the books) would think to poison his spears (should be harpoons though as John has the right idea that to take on something the size of a dragon you should use the weapons used against similar sized animals in whales) if he wants to kill a dragon as otherwise you're relying on someone hitting a dragon in the exact right spot at hundreds of feet away instead of relying on just hitting them where you can. And especially Qyburn should be considering poisoning the spears considering he watched Oberyn take down "a giant" using poisoned spears to assure his victory and has seen their effectiveness at changing the odds.
You don't fight a dragon heroically, let the storytellers make up the valiant details while you just worry about killing it.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
Crownlands. They mentioned they were crossing the Blackwater Rush and within easy distance of King's Landing.
This point really bugged me on my rewatch as it made me realize that Dany could've just attacked King's Landing instead while its army was gone, and Jaime could've returned only to find he'd lost the war focusing on Highgarden. Dany didn't want to fight for King's Landing, and King's Landing's army wasn't present yet she didn't take it and instead attacked Jaime. Or that Dany could've taken King's Landing AND defeated Jaime's army. As well as that, given the previews for next week, Dany still hasn't taken King's Landing yet despite being right there. Which is all dumb as Dany left Dragonstone with her army despite being warned not to do so, so why is she still worried about not looking like a conqueror by attacking King's Landing and just ending the war?
And it just entirely proves my point that Jaime didn't learn from the Whispering Wood if he got completely off guard right near King's Landing, and his soldiers are literally sleeping instead of guarding the supply line. Dany needed a win sure, but don't put stupid lines in that will be immediately proven false. Jaime could've been caught off guard without saying he learned from the last time this literally happened to him.
The whole proximity to King's Landing on my rewatch just seemed like a plot contrivance to ensure that Cersei got her gold, while still losing to Dany, as otherwise there's no reason to be so close to King's Landing without Dany just saying fuck it and choosing to take the city.
Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King’s Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!
How is that horrible? That's good! Dany is a conqueror, not Mhysa Theresa.
HA! All fair. It would be fitting--since they NEED to have the greyscale do something other than just provide scared stories of Gilly's sisters.
Something has to happen with that--even in the show. The books? No worries--it's going somewhere.
But if they wasted all this time on it in the show--I'm related to a lot of lawyers. Thinking I might sue.
Though the bug in my brain about Dany's potentially being a blend with Val is growing--Jon is CLEARLY attracted to Val in Dance.
A LOT of time gets spent on that.
AND: Jon knows he can't be with her and be who he wants to be.
AND: Jon gets horrified by Val's stance on Shireen.
It would be unthinkable in any other context. But this is the show that blended Sansa and Jeyne.
I kinda hope I'm wrong--but it might explain why they are really, really rushing the Jon and Dany stuff. They even had the D's say flat out that Jon is attracted in the Inside the Episode--never had to say that for Ygritte. Actually took their time there.
Not sure if I hope my brain-fever is right or wrong.
But I do hope Emilia will start acting like herself and scrap the "Dany" artifice. Just be yourself, honey! It will be SO much more lovely to watch!!!!!
Watching Emilia in an interview... Dany needs to let Emilia be Emilia. She could make Dany so much more interesting if she just put more of her personality into the character.
Please let this happen!!!!!
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
So is Westeros totally screwed for food since Drogon burnt all that grain? Also Sansa made a mention of not enough grain. Wonder what's up with all that?
AAAACK!! I just had a horrible image in my head of Jon and CO. having to eat Ghost.
NO!!!!!
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.
I'm really sorry to whoever it was, I can't find the post again but someone upthread suggested that Jaime & Bronn will be Dany's prisoners next ep and I really hope that's the case. It gives Tyrion a chance to have a scene with both of them and
Davos smuggles Tyrion into KL to broker a meeting with Jaime via Bronn.
Thus setting up for the Dragonpit UN Security Council.
But I'd kinda prefer the prisoner route.
All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Oscar Wilde.