Post by stdaga on Dec 5, 2017 8:59:27 GMT
Been away from the boards for a few days. I have bought a house, and between projects in the new house (I am painting the kitchen cabinet's right now and it sucks!), packing the old house, and work, I have not had much free time. Yuck!
As soon as I clicked into the link you posted, I recognized it. The Winterfell Hois Clos main page is actually bookmarked on my work computer, when I have time. I came across the segment called The Host and the Groom while looking up theories on Roose. That theory, when I printed it, was 40 pages long. Holey buckets, it was detailed, but very interesting. I have not had time to read it all, but I am working through it. Good stuff in there, and even if it's not correct, that is a high level of detail and theorizing that I can admire!
It just crossed my mind that if Rhaegar did take Lyanna, it could be for a reason that didn't have anything to do with love or lust. That if he knows something of prophecy, maybe he realized that Lyanna could be key. And the common thought it that Rhaegar took Lyanna to help fulfill a prophecy, but how ironic it would be if he actually took her to stop a prophecy from being fulfilled!
It could be possible that Dany and Aegon share no blood, but still might look enough alike to be siblings. It would be doubly ironic if they are both just random children from Lys that were raised up to think that they are something that they are not! Targaryen! Blood of the dragon!
Thinking spur of the moment here, but maybe the storm that affected Dragonstone at Dany's birth isn't related to the Storm God or the Storm lords at all. Another person with storm imagery in this story is Euron "I am the storm" Greyjoy. I know Euron would have been much younger at the time of Dany's birth, but what if he was at sea, harassing the Targaryen's as they tried to flee dragonstone? Could it be that the egg that he is said to have tossed into the sea might have been Dany or Viserys' cradle egg? Could he have reaved/stole it from the Targaryen's as they fled Westeros? Or it was given to him to let them pass his ship safely? Euron says that he tossed a dragon egg into the sea, but it is speculated that he paid the faceless men to assassinate Balon and used the egg as payment, but what if he traded the egg to Illyrio, and somehow the egg ended back up with Dany. That could be a reason that Euron is set on marrying/having Dany, and hads/had a dragon binding horn. The egg is their connection. It would not be the first time he and Dany have crossed paths if this scenario is correct.
Euron's personal sigil is two black crows supporting a black iron crown, with a red eye beneath. The red eye makes me think of Drogon, and the black crows could be black dragon's in silhouette. The black iron crown also makes me think of Robb's crown, but I don't know what it all means.
It would be ironic if that is the case. Lyanna was missing as far as some people were concerned, but maybe the disappearance isn't nearly what is suspected. Who was the woman who traveled with Ned from the vale to the north at the start of the rebellion? I would bet money it's either Ashara or Lyanna, like 50/50 odds, and if it was Lyanna, then the story of her disappearance isn't quite accurate. The story makes it seem like she was missing from before the rebellion to after it, but if she was with Ned at some point early in the rebellion, it is possible that nothing that is speculated about her disappearance is accurate. And while Robert is very upset thinking of Lyanna's "kidnapping", Ned seems to be pretty calm about that whole situation. If he knew where Lyanna was the whole time, it would explain his lack of heat or anger over her "kidnapping".
I can't help but see them, but it's possible that this reread with parentage on my mind has caused me to connect the dots with a blood connection between Robert and Dany where none exists. I had just commented on this in response to danl in an earlier post.
It is very possible that Robert and Dany are simply similar in style, as both are conqueror's, both are usurper's of a sort, and they have no close blood connection to each other. It's ironic that Dany could think such bad things about Robert Baratheon, when she is very like him. He had his reasons, which she doesn't recognize, while she has her own reasons for her conquest of the great cities of Astapor, Yunkai, and eventually Meereen, where she set's up shop, much like Robert set up shop in Kings Landing. All of these similarities between Robert and Dany might be to show how blind Dany is to the irony of her situation? Her hate for the Usurper and his dogs, while she is no better, and maybe even worse!!! I like that connection way more than I like the idea of Dany being Robert's child!
So, while the connection is in the text, the reason for the connection might not be as I have speculated. Not a parent connection, but a conqueror and usurper connection!
That dragons are attracted to hot places like volcanic activity is natural for fire made flesh, but would Winterfell suffice as that? Hotsprings could indicate something like that, but on a lower level in my mind. So not sure if it would make the cut for a dragon.
If you combine the legends of Azora Ahai and the birth of dragons from the Dothraki, there is a connection between the two. IIRC that is, long time since I was over those parts. Them being the same thing is more doubtfull. I'll have to go over the part of Battle Island again to say anything more on that, as I mostly just skimmed it.
I think the Dragonstone is made of a black stone. It seems to be almost seemless and that is was built by sorcery and magic, and hinted that the stone was liquified and made into unusual shapes. I don't know that we really know how the Valyrian's built, but this seems to mimic the stone that was used in Valyria, (also in Volantis and the dragon roads of Essos) as well as it sounds similar to the base of the Hightower in Old Town but I think that is just speculation.
I suppose there could be more than one type of dragon in the story, but that get's complicated. I think that a dragon could burrow into caves and tunnels, seeking a heat source. They might really need to heat to maintain them if they are not eating regularly.
As far as hot springs and a heat source, Yellowstone National Park comes to mind, with it's many hot springs, some that are hot enough to melt flesh, and it is a huge underground volcano just ready to blow!
I highly doubt the Children would use them, though exceptions might be found. Seems too destructive to me for them to really use, so I'd think they tried to get rid of them instead. While a dragon might burn land, I really doubt they could break up a whole landbridge into islands. That sounds more like something much bigger than dragons, earthquakes or something of that magnitude. And we do see something similar after the doom in Valyria. Could the Children really control it? Not sure at all on that, it could easily be exaggerations from the First Men. As they were at war, wouldn't it be reasonable that the breaking of that landbridge they used would seem like something the Children did? And if asked, why not claim they did it?
Well, we know that the CotF had special people, with green eyes or red, and those children had greater power than the rest of them. The most rare of the rare. What if one of those Children could skinchange a dragon? What better weapon against a bunch of dragons and than another dragon, a large dragon. During the Dance of the Dragon's, many dragon's died in battle with each other. What if the CotF controlled a dragon and killed the rest of the dragons. What might happen to that dragon that they had once controlled? Would they kill it too, or would they capture it and hold it as a weapon, for when the time might be needed. We know from Bran that with raven's, it's easier to control them if they had already been skinchanged by another person/CotF first. Would this not apply to dragon's too?
What was that thing that Summer seen in the sky over Winterfell after Ramsay put it to the torch? A dragon that maybe escaped from beneath the First Keep? If it was an old dragon, and it maybe had been skinchanged previously, a strong skinchanger (Bran, Jon, Arya, even Sansa or wild Rickon) could possibly control this dragon and use it to destroy another threat that is coming for Westeros, such as Dany and her dragons or an army of wights lead by the Other's on ice spiders?
This is probably not what is going to happen, but it's fun to speculate!
And, as to what broke the arm of Dorne, flooded the neck or even destroyed Valyria, it probably is more in the path of a natural disaster, such as an earth quake, a flood, or a volcano.
Yeah, it a lot! Good stuff, though! I spent a weekend reading most of it, and now I'm almost at the end.
Huh! Hadn't thought about that! Another reason why Rheagar actually might have taken her? Nice!
It's possible I'd say! Will probably only be confirmed if we ever get a third person describing them side by side, but that might actually happen.
Maybe. Chances would be bigger if Rhaella didn't die during the birth, but of complications a day or so later and was able to give instructions. If so, where did the egg go when they escaped? Was it the black and red egg?
Euron's personal sigil is two black crows supporting a black iron crown, with a red eye beneath. The red eye makes me think of Drogon, and the black crows could be black dragon's in silhouette. The black iron crown also makes me think of Robb's crown, but I don't know what it all means.
Unless Lyanna never disappeared at all and it was just a lie, but I don't see that happening.
I understand why you see these connections when you point them out, but could it be something else than parentage? I don't really have any suggestion to what else it might be, but it could be good to keep an open mind there as well.
But I am seeing a fair amount of Robert and Daenerys connections in the text. Since we are looking into parentage, that is on my mind.
It is very possible that Robert and Dany are simply similar in style, as both are conqueror's, both are usurper's of a sort, and they have no close blood connection to each other. It's ironic that Dany could think such bad things about Robert Baratheon, when she is very like him. He had his reasons, which she doesn't recognize, while she has her own reasons for her conquest of the great cities of Astapor, Yunkai, and eventually Meereen, where she set's up shop, much like Robert set up shop in Kings Landing. All of these similarities between Robert and Dany might be to show how blind Dany is to the irony of her situation? Her hate for the Usurper and his dogs, while she is no better, and maybe even worse!!! I like that connection way more than I like the idea of Dany being Robert's child!
So, while the connection is in the text, the reason for the connection might not be as I have speculated. Not a parent connection, but a conqueror and usurper connection!
I agree with the age of those gargoyles, and they might be used with very differeing techniques as well. Do we know when the castle was made, by the way? I haven't thought much about them either at this point.
That dragons are attracted to hot places like volcanic activity is natural for fire made flesh, but would Winterfell suffice as that? Hotsprings could indicate something like that, but on a lower level in my mind. So not sure if it would make the cut for a dragon.
If you combine the legends of Azora Ahai and the birth of dragons from the Dothraki, there is a connection between the two. IIRC that is, long time since I was over those parts. Them being the same thing is more doubtfull. I'll have to go over the part of Battle Island again to say anything more on that, as I mostly just skimmed it.
I think the Dragonstone is made of a black stone. It seems to be almost seemless and that is was built by sorcery and magic, and hinted that the stone was liquified and made into unusual shapes. I don't know that we really know how the Valyrian's built, but this seems to mimic the stone that was used in Valyria, (also in Volantis and the dragon roads of Essos) as well as it sounds similar to the base of the Hightower in Old Town but I think that is just speculation.
I suppose there could be more than one type of dragon in the story, but that get's complicated. I think that a dragon could burrow into caves and tunnels, seeking a heat source. They might really need to heat to maintain them if they are not eating regularly.
As far as hot springs and a heat source, Yellowstone National Park comes to mind, with it's many hot springs, some that are hot enough to melt flesh, and it is a huge underground volcano just ready to blow!
It stands to reason that dragons thrive in a fire environment. Any people going there would be those that could, or thought they could, control them. For anyone else they would be too dangerous.
I highly doubt the Children would use them, though exceptions might be found. Seems too destructive to me for them to really use, so I'd think they tried to get rid of them instead. While a dragon might burn land, I really doubt they could break up a whole landbridge into islands. That sounds more like something much bigger than dragons, earthquakes or something of that magnitude. And we do see something similar after the doom in Valyria. Could the Children really control it? Not sure at all on that, it could easily be exaggerations from the First Men. As they were at war, wouldn't it be reasonable that the breaking of that landbridge they used would seem like something the Children did? And if asked, why not claim they did it?
Well, we know that the CotF had special people, with green eyes or red, and those children had greater power than the rest of them. The most rare of the rare. What if one of those Children could skinchange a dragon? What better weapon against a bunch of dragons and than another dragon, a large dragon. During the Dance of the Dragon's, many dragon's died in battle with each other. What if the CotF controlled a dragon and killed the rest of the dragons. What might happen to that dragon that they had once controlled? Would they kill it too, or would they capture it and hold it as a weapon, for when the time might be needed. We know from Bran that with raven's, it's easier to control them if they had already been skinchanged by another person/CotF first. Would this not apply to dragon's too?
What was that thing that Summer seen in the sky over Winterfell after Ramsay put it to the torch? A dragon that maybe escaped from beneath the First Keep? If it was an old dragon, and it maybe had been skinchanged previously, a strong skinchanger (Bran, Jon, Arya, even Sansa or wild Rickon) could possibly control this dragon and use it to destroy another threat that is coming for Westeros, such as Dany and her dragons or an army of wights lead by the Other's on ice spiders?
This is probably not what is going to happen, but it's fun to speculate!
And, as to what broke the arm of Dorne, flooded the neck or even destroyed Valyria, it probably is more in the path of a natural disaster, such as an earth quake, a flood, or a volcano.